Whats up with cycling?

[Catspa]

Ok this is the third tank I’ve “cycled” and have still never seen any spiking at all (or anything close), what’s up with that. I’ve cycled a 7, 30, and 190 gal tank. (the 30 being the most recent) Have I just missed it? I don’t think so, cause I’ve tried checking every day..??  (all so tried it with different test kits) I usually see an elevation of ammonia, but nothing close to toxic levels, then every thing settles down and eventually I see the nitrates start to rise, like normal…and away we go.

The procedure I use to cycle my 30g is as follows

*fill it up with treated RO/DI water (salt already added) and let it run for a couple of days.

* Add 8 pounds of live rock, 3 damsels, 6 hermit crabs. (and yes I know I shouldn’t add the hermit crabs, but hey they always survive just fine for me.)

* add a doss of Hegan’s Cycle, and a dos of Bacter Vital (Marc Weiss Companies, Inc.)

 

* let run a few of days, then add another doss of cycle, and bacter vital.

* Let run another couple of days.

* see ammonia starting to rise

* treat again with cylce and Bacter vital

* Run another couple of days

* Do a partial water change, about 20%

* Doss again with cycle and bacter vital

* And every thing after that tends to smooth out and its up and going.

 

Whole process takes about 3 or so. Tank still tends to look a bit scummy for a 3-4 weeks afterwards, (funk growing on glass) but water quality is good.

 

So whats up with not seeing any spikes? Is it the partial water change? Whats wrong with doing the partial water change if it avoids the spike and still ends up cycling the tank?

Is it the cycling additives? If so why not every one use them?

 

Anyone have any ideas/explanation?

[Smokey Joe]

If good quality live rock is being used you won't see much of a spike if any.  The reason people don't always suggest doing water changes during a cycle is that the seperate spikes drive the reproduction of bacteria that break down those compounds, without the spike you may not have necessary amounts of bacteria down the road (assuming they weren't already there on the live rock).

[Cam barr]

umm thats not bad also cycle tends to keep ammonina

down sounds like your water quality is really good only thing i can think of why only 8 pounds  in a 30 i would try and get 40 pounda in my forty i have 60 pounds of lr and about 5o pounds of ls

[Catspa]

I almost always try to use good quality live rock.  I seem to spend more time finding and picking live rock then i do my fish.  Seriously, i'll drive to around a dozen different marine fish stores to see what they got and in Canada, they are few and far between. I 've noticed that its usualy the really small marine stores that have the good stuff.  Anyway, the batch i used in the 30 was indoneasn (sp?) and it had lots of funa and stuff growing on it.

 

So its the live rock that doing it all?  so i guess if you start off with enough good quality live rock you can skip the cycling altogether? (assuming you build your fish population slowly) correct?

 

 

 

 

ps. i just cycle with a 8 pounds or so, after that i'll build it any were between 40 - 80 pounds depending on the fish, and the look i'm going for.

[Sahin]

Perhaps the Live Rock you are buying is of good quality and already cured.  I bought my live rock already cured.

 

I never got a cycle.

 

also, using the CYCLE product adds a small amount of bacteria that makes a tank so called cycled, so a combo these factors means you get away without a cycle which is a good thing.

 

HTH

[Nishant3789]

im with cambarr on this one. if u only add 30 lbs of really good cureds LR then u prob wont c a cycle. then again u prob wont c a reef either. Get MORE LIVE ROCK! im  scared to see how much is in the 190 gallon you mentioned. hth

nishant

[Toyfreek]

I would hazzard to guess that with only 8lbs. rock in 30gal tank you wont have enough Die-Off if the rock has been at a store for any length of time to see a large spike. Your findings of small amounts of amonia seem about right for that size tank with that much rock.

I am curious how much sand do you have in there? and did you buy live sand or aragonite? That could have something to do with it as well, when I use Live sand my cycles seem to go much faster.

HTH,

Toy

[Catspa]

I only used fine grain aragonite (about 4-5 inches),no live sand.  In regards to die off, I usually don’t get much on the rocks I buy.  I try to purchase LR that has not bean previously cured, and from suppliers that leave there lights “ON” after they receive it.  That way, the die off is minimal (ie only the stuff that died during shipping, which as I understand it is only a couple of days).  The end result is much more prolific variety of biodiversity on the rock,  hence the stuff looks amazing.

As for the ammonia build up, I usually just rely on the damsels I’ve got. They are all about 2 inches. (one four striped damsel, one azure damsel, and one unidentified damsel (it’s a darkish red colour, with black horizontal pin striping. Also the red gets brighter towards the top of the head, and he’s mean as hell)

 

 

p.s.  Nishant – I agree, but as I said I’ll build it up to 40 – 80 pounds depending on what I’m going for. The 180 has, I’d guess, around 280 pounds, but its not mine, I just set it up.

[Cam barr]

first things first dont add rock over time i guess you can but i dont think its tat smart if u keep adding rock you migh have a bunch of micro cycles and thats not good for the things you want to keeep alive but you say that your rock is pretty cured im wondering if you know if the rock is dry ship or wet ship rock

cam

[Catspa]

as i understand it, micro cycles are fine and unavoidable untill you have your system completely finished, ie fully stocked with fish, rock, coral and inverts - anything that changes the ballance with cause minute fluxuations in it.  I suppose it could be said that you never truely have a perfectly stable system, its always in a state of flux, as in the case of nature - the idea is the minimize these as much as possible, as big flux can reek havic.

 

Wet or dry, humm, i guess  the stuff i try to get must be wet shipped or something.  I find that the big stores LR is usually crap, it must be dry shipped and then they cure it with the lights off, wich ends up further killing off stuff that would have lived if they left the lights on.  I usually end up buying my stuff off the smaller (specialized) stores, and i think it must be wet shipped or else shipped within a day or something, cause the quality amazing compared to the big stores.  I guess the fact that they leave the lights on really helps too.  All i can really say, is that i usually get it a 4 or 5 days after a shipment has come in, and it i usually get pieces with live fona on it, and often there is still coraline on it that is still a bright red or green, but  I'll ask next time cause it is a really good question.

 

also on a side note, with the rocks I put in my 30, the shipment had come in 5 days before.  I found that the also smelled good, wich is a good sign of either minimal die off or the die off, what little there was, was already finished curing.

[junglejim83]

If that hagen cycle is that concentrated nitrifying bacteria, then I'll put my money on it that thats why you havent had much of a spike.  It took me 6 weeks to cycle my tank, i then added a bunch of lr rubble it spike terribly.  so i found out about the concentrated stuff(i used fritz zyme) figured i'd give it a shot, and w/ in 2 days everything was almost zeroed out.