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JBJ 24g Recall?


prove_it

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With all thats been going on, this is an informal poll.

 

Do you think that JBJ should recall the 24g cubes? If they don't do you think a Class Action is in order?

 

I wonder if anyone has contacted the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission.

 

Any responsible company would be willing to recall a product that doesnt meet safety standards.

 

From SNIERBO's post about the thickness of the glass, and my research into glass thickness,

 

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumd...lcustomtank.htm

 

Its quite obvious that the thickness of the glass is completely unsuitable, especially given the curved nature and volume.

 

Hank

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JBJ is handling this in a responsible way. JBJ IS taking care of customers who have tank problems. Got a problem w/ a cube? JBJ takes care of it. As long as JBJ, a) takes care of the customers that do have tank problems, and B) improves the design of the tank (which I have heard they are) there is no need for lawyers or lawsuits that only benefit the lawyers.

 

just my .02

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I need to start by saying I have 2 cubes. The 12OG that is not set up now and a 2004 24DX which is. Niether of my tanks have cracked. My sympathy goes out to those who have lost livestock and damaged their homes.

 

I agree with doncb. JBJ needs time to respond with the issues regarding cracked cubes. Most of the incidents have happened in the last month and I think it would irresponsible for JBJ to react so quickly. They need to find out why, then they can make an informed decision. From what I have heard they are replacing cubes that have cracked and I am sure they are trying to figure out a solution.

Forums such as these have a small, yet vocal, percentage of cube owners. That is to say the vast majority are not having problems. So I think it is commendable for JBJ to take the time and respond directly to the members here who have had issues. Given time I think this problem will be corrected.

I don't mean to offend anyone on this forum, if I have I apologize. I have learned more from the people here than I could have by reading a hundred books. As it is with this hobby in general, patience is the key, and I think patience will see this come to a happy ending for everyone.

Bob

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Originally posted by prove_it

With all thats been going on, this is an informal poll.

 

Do you think that JBJ should recall the 24g cubes? If they don't do you think a Class Action is in order?

 

I wonder if anyone has contacted the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission.  

 

Any responsible company would be willing to recall a product that doesnt meet safety standards.  

 

From SNIERBO's post about the thickness of the glass, and my research into glass thickness,

 

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumd...lcustomtank.htm

 

Its quite obvious that the thickness of the glass is completely unsuitable, especially given the curved nature and volume.

 

Hank

 

The only one's who get any type of real compensation from a class action suit are lawyers.... Tigah, get on it!

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I'm not sure a class action lawsuit is the way to go. As everyone above me has pointed out - only the Lawyers get rich.

 

I for one am not looking to "get rich" off of my problems with my Nano Cube. I am just looking for a good night's sleep. I have had 2 Nano Cube "incidents" and have absolutely no confidence in my JBJ replacement tank. I'm watching it like a hawk for any signs of cracks.

 

Couple that with -

 

1) My measurments of 3.83mm (1/8" - 3/16") glass thickness in both my original 24G and 24DX (w/LEDs) replacement tank (I don't have time today, but will post pictures of the shards being measured in the future)

2) Christopher Marks' comments that 3/16" glass isn't even good enough for a 10 Gallon Aquarium http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...&threadid=59845

3) prove_it's post of the DIY Aquarium specs, clearly showing that our tanks should be at a minimum 6mm thick to have any safety factor.

 

I doubt I'll be getting a good night's sleep anytime soon.

 

I think these factors at least deserve a "recall", or the option for a refund for anyone that is seriously concerned about the viability of their Nano Cube.

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I have to agree with Snierbo. I think a class action is only plausible if the manufacturer fails to initiate a recall. I am not litigious, but we need some teeth, otherwise, they can sweep us under the rug and avoid the real issue by just replacing the units that spontaneously explode.

 

The best course of action is to give it time to see if JBJ can correct this problem.

 

Correcting it, however doesnt do much for the current owners of the tank, so I think a recall is in order.

 

Every day that goes by could potentially bring more doom to the end users of this product. I for one, am cutting my losses and am not going to pursue any monetary refund, or even contact JBJ, because as of now, nothing has happened to my tank. Nor will it, as I am dismantling it and getting an oceanic.

 

We do have the ability to have our voice heard, tho, if not by JBJ..

 

I urge anyone directly involved/impacted by this failure to file a complaint with the CPSC (consumer products safety commission) so it can at least be documented and addresssed by sources higher up.

 

https://www.cpsc.gov/incident.html

 

This will be my last post in the Nanocube forum, and I hope to be able to share my new Oceanic cube with the community.

 

Concerned,

 

Hank

 

ps. It should be also noted that in another post, someone stated that Petsolutions has "boycotted" the 24g.

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...&threadid=58556

 

Looking at petsolutions site, im assuming they are now stocking the GII, so maybe the issue has been addressed..

 

Keeping my fingers crossed for the rest of the public...

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With a failure rate of < 3% and only a portion of those being "cracked tanks" A class action suit is ridiculous. Too many people jump right on this "Lawsuit wagon" now days. So many lawyers, so few real worthy causes, may as well make one up...........

 

Most products produced and sold have similar if not higher rates of failure. Many into the double digits. National average is right at this 3%.

 

JBJ has gone out of their way to warranty problems on the cubes.

 

Many of these cracked cubes have a few things in common.

 

They were ordered over the internet.

JBJ will not ship via UPS/FedEex etc. Only palletized shipping is done by JBJ to LFS or distributors. Single cubes are subject to rough handling and could contribute to these failures. They are in fact improving the packing to perhaps handle the gorillas at FedEx.

 

Modified Cubes:

Many of these cubes have been altered from the original states. JBJ had no control over these modifications and so how do you hold them responsible for failures that may or may not be related?

 

Maybe tempered glass or thicker glass will help but I do not think this is an epidemic of broken tanks with the numbers as low as they are. (probably seems like it to anyone that had one fail however)

 

Oh I own 2 of these (purchased locally at LFS) without problems and one has been modified (142 watts of MH and PC w/overflow mod, added 400Gph pump) I did have a pump fail and JBJ told the store open a new cube, take the pump and charge off the tank.

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Well, nothing has happened to my Cube, I'm VERY happy with the design and functionality of the Cube and I'm not loosing any sleep over it.

 

As to glass thickness, I've got 2 10g tanks with glass 1/8" thick, a 20g AND a 30g with glass 3/16" thick. OMG!!!:o Call the lawyers!! My house is full of NAMEBRAND tanks that don't meet someone's idea of proper thickness!! DEMAND A RECALL!!

 

I don't think JBJ is avoiding anything. They are replacing tanks that fail and I believe there was a post about changes in the mgf. of the tanks to improve the design. How is that sweeping anything under the rug or avoiding an issue? I think JBJ has done the right thing in addressing the cracking issue. As long as they are taking care of the customer, why is there talk about lawsuits? JBJ could have taken a much different aproach and made it much more difficult. As I stated before, as long as JBJ is replacing tanks, I see no need for a recall. I can almost asure you that as soon as lawyers get involved and start writing threat letters, JBJ's lawyers will bring things to a screaching halt. They can drag things out for years. Is that what everybody wants? Or do you want your tank replaced if you have a problem? I've read how JBJ has been reasonable over the phone save one person quoted in another thread who's tone explains why. You catch more flies w/ honey than w/ vinegar.

 

And as far as the CPSC goes, JBJ can probably demonstrate that they have a very low failure rate (wasn't it 3.5%?) and that nobody has been injured, killed, maimed, etc.. They can also demonstrate how they are replacing failed tanks and the manufacturer has changed the design. I'd wager the CPSC won't even bother.

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Originally posted by RandyO

Thanks Don,  I was trying not to go off myself on a rant about some stupid recall issue......

 

Always glad to be of assistance! :D

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Good to see that this board is democratic and open minded. This was an open ended question posed to see how the general forum body feels about this particular issue.

 

After some further research, I stumbled upon this photo, which is what did it for me.

 

P1010067.sized.jpg

 

I truly hope everyone is right about this.

 

Good luck to all involved.

 

Call me a rouser, call me what you want. I just want to be sure everyone is ok. I think for the most part a failure rate of 3% is acceptable, but the CPSC doesnt act on items based on the failure rates, its the potential for failure.

 

If you type Aquarium into the search, youll see that in most cases, even out of 40000+ units sold, if 3 people have been affected (regardless of injury or damage), a responsible company will enact a recall.

 

Good luck to everyone

 

Hank

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What's funny is someone stopped grabbed a camera and took a pic. I would be running for towels or a bucket!!:)

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"more *doom* to the end users of this product"

 

Doom? Some water on the floor is not doom. Has anyone been doomed by this?

 

So far the only problem I have had with my modded NC is the hitchiker crab I just tore the tank apart to get at. Little twerp - eating my zoas.

 

Keith

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Originally posted by RandyO

Many of these cracked cubes have a few things in common.  

 

They were ordered over the internet.  

JBJ will not ship via UPS/FedEex etc. Only palletized shipping is done by JBJ to LFS or distributors. Single cubes are subject to rough handling and could contribute to these failures.  They are in fact improving the packing to perhaps handle the gorillas at FedEx.

 

Modified Cubes:

Many of these cubes have been altered from the original states.  JBJ had no control over these modifications and so how do you hold them responsible for failures that may or may not be related?

 

Just to be clear - both of my cracked Cubes came from my LFS - not via Internet Orders. HOWEVER - JBJ shipped my replacement via UPS. Should I be concerned that UPS "gorillas" may have induced some form of stress that will now cause my replacement Cube to POP? I read JBJ's statement where they blamed part of the problems on shipping via UPS or FedEx, but then they went ahead and shipped my replacement via UPS.

 

As far as modified cubes go, I made a post about that last night on JBJ's "official Statement" thread. The majority of modifications people are doing, would not impact the integrity of the tank glass. So why void the warranty because the hobbyists have to modify the product to make it functional? Why would adding a cassette skimmer, replacing the pump (especially when the stock pump breaks in 2 weeks), or adding moonlights to the hood, void the glass warranty? They know we're all modding these tanks, and they know the majority of us are not doing anything to the glass. But they make the blanket statement "Warranty will not be honored for products that have been modified" because they know that eliminates 95% of the tanks that are sold, and thus limits their liability.

 

Is a recall necessary - I don't know. I am not confident in this product any longer. But as I said, maybe just the offer to refund people who are worried - not for everything, just for their tanks and stands, not LR, LS, Corals, Fish, Pumps, etc. - so that they can move onto a different system would be the best solution.

 

I do hope there is not a serious systemic problem with this product. I wouldn't want anyone to have to go through what I did. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I love this hobby, and I have gotten far more enjoyment than misery from my Nano Cube.

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sNEIRBO,

 

I doubt JBJ is going to void a warranty if you put in a cassette skimmer. They are within their rights to void it if you put a MH light in the hood or made any mod that would increase the heat stress or affect the integrity of the tank. The warranty statement "Warranty will not be honored for products that have been modified", is a general statement since no company is going to try and list every possible mod. And I must disagree with your statement that "hobbyists have to modify the product to make it functional". The NC is perfectly "functional" OOB. Sure I added different moon lights, but I'm running the stock main lights. Yes, I added a 2nd PH but I'm still running the stock PH. Did I HAVE to do these mods? No. Did I WANT to do these mods? Yes. Would my NC be just as "functional" without them? Yes. Would I be able to keep the same livestock if I didn't do these mods? Yes. If you want to keep a clam or other livestock that requires high intensity lights then the NC is not the right tank and if anyone chooses to buy a NC and mod it just so THEY can keep a clam. Well, that it their choice but it doesn't mean the NC isn't functional. If you go by the "functional" test, then virtually no tank on the market is functional.

 

Maybe JBJ should go ahead and refund the small number people that don't want the NC anymore. If I had my tank break, I'd be satisfied if they replaced it. That's what warranties are for.

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All I can say is - I WISH YOU ALL LUCK!

 

As for me - it's not worth it to keep the ticking time bomb in my House - I'm switching to an Acrylic System. I like margins of safety. And I'd really like to be able to move my Aquarium out of the basement and back into my Office.

 

Thanks to JBJ for the replacement tank and stand - I'm sure you'll soon see them on eBay so I can recoup at least part of my Insurance Deductible from this fiasco.

 

If anyone does start a Class Action suit - I don't want in, but would be willing to testify.

 

BTW - I took my digital calipers to PetSmart this afternoon and measured an Oceanic 30G Cube - 1/4" Glass (6.35mm for the metric impaired). From the DIY Tank Building website, based on Oceanic's dimensions - that's a safety factor of 2.91.

 

 

"Daddy, did you hear that sound . . . I think your Aquarium cracked again!" - my 5 year old daughter 6/14/2005

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Doncb, That was very well stated!!! Exactly what I would have said....as it is very obvious that by modding the lights means also adding more weight to the canopy of the tank. Again, very well stated!!!

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Hi everyone,

 

Ive been trying to stay silent on this, because I have a role to play as a responsible retailer and hobbyist.

 

Today I speak to you not as Chris from nanocustoms, but as a fellow hobbyist. This represents an opinion and should not be misconstrued as an "official statement".

 

Here Goes-

 

To be clear, these incidents havent occured just in the past month.

 

Being one of the first retailers to carry the 24g, I have also been distributing them to LFS's near me, and to my dismay, they have had sporadic tank crackings as well.

 

In the beginning, I thought it could be attributed to a "bad" batch of the earliest models of the cube. But as time went on, it became obvious that this was a problem that could not be attributed to a single bad batch or solely on shipping.

 

If you have the time, do a search.

 

My first units were sold in Dec 2004. In Jan 2004, a few units "spontaneously" broke. I thought, must be shipping.

 

Instead of taking the risks of shipping, I issued those owners a full refund and "ate" the costs. To my dismay, when Scott (the person who took that "gushing" 24g) purchased a tank locally, it happened again.

 

I thought for sure it had to be a bad batch of early cubes.

 

As the NVM models came out, I figured, JBJ must have addressed/fixed this issue. With confidence, I started selling these models to my customers and to my dismay, the failures continued to happen, both locally, and on units sold over the internet.

 

The LFS i supplied had reported 2 units "spontaneously" crack/leak.

 

Surely it couldnt be shipping this time. I had personally picked up the units from JBJ and hand delivered them to the LFS.

 

Still, there are the stories that Shao and others who are LOCAL to southern california, who reported "spontaneous" crackings.

 

So, it saddens me to say this, but I think something is wrong with these cubes.

 

For a moment, I thought the issues had been resolved, but its becoming more apparent as this situation develops, that there arent many corroborable circumstances that can point the finger at one main cause of these failures, except for a few.

 

1. Container transit from Asia

2. Manufacturing defects

3. Design Flaw

 

I think that many of these stresses occur from the shipping of these units, they experience forces and torques as they are rocked and shipped across country, but that doesnt explain the spontenaity of these failures, or the fact that they happen sometimes months after setup.

 

I know we all want to have a lot of pride in these tanks, I have to admit that I love my 2 cubes and want them to last forever.

 

Its time for JBJ to take responsible action that addresses these issues before they become a problem.

 

A recall means tons of money, and I understand that. Although the problem may not be endemic to the cube, its happening enough so that people are taking notice.

 

To those who have experienced failures, I am empathize with you. Its hard for a guy like SNIERBO to come out, make a strong statement, and get shot down or considered "bitter" by some.

 

He's the guy who has an insurance deductible to pay for. He's the guy with an increased insurance premium. He's the guy with his pride and joy aquarium now placed in his basement out of fear of failure and lack of confidence in this product.

 

JBJ, if your reading/listening, take this not as an insult or attack on your product. As a company, you have a responsibility to your customers that extend far beyond replacing a unit that goes bad, you have an obligation to try your best to minimize and mitigate the risk of it happening again.

 

My 0.02

 

Chris

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Why try to stay silent? Seems now like you and JBJ were hoping these incidents with all these cracked cubes would just go away quietly.

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6V6

Why try to stay silent? Seems now like you and JBJ were hoping these incidents with all these cracked cubes would just go away quietly.

 

Ive tried to stay silent because I sit on both sides of the fence, as a retailer and as a hobbyist.

 

And to be clear, I don't hope things go away, I do things to make it better.

 

When the news broke about the cubes cracking, I immediately began working on an alternative solution to this problem, which addresses and covers the issues of cracking and expanded moddability (as you know JBJ is no longer warranting modded cubes).

 

When this happened, didnt i put the 20+ preorders on pause? I could have easily continued on with the modding and cross my fingers that thier tanks dont break, but i chose the responsible route.

 

Those 20+ preorders accounted for about 15-20K in income. Thats not huge by any means, but not small, especially for a hobby shop like nanocustoms.

 

Sorry if this seems like im not taking this comment well, but your inference is incorrect.

 

Chris

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Chris -

 

You should be offended by that comment. No one has done more for this hobby, or to help people with Nano Cubes than you. (OK, maybe steelhealr with his startup thread . . . it's a close race.)

 

6V6 -

 

Chris posted not long ago about development of the Acrylic Version of these tanks - a solution to the problems. And a solution with options - reg, short and tall options.

 

Chris presented his own analysis of thermal expansion issues when JBJ couldn't be bothered to respond.

 

Chris was one of the first people to contact JBJ to make them aware of these issues.

 

Chris makes sure to take care of his customers, at his own expense.

 

Chris has been more sympathetic and supportive than anyone at JBJ has ever been.

 

When JBJ sent me a smashed replacement tank (not their fault that one belongs to UPS) - where was JBJ? Literally "out to lunch" when I called them. Within minutes of my post showing the smashed tank Chris called me. Chris was on this forum and involved, JBJ didn't return my call for almost 90 minutes.

 

Chris is part of the solution, NOT part of the problem.

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I own a nc12 but would have to say that if anything were to happen to my cube, I'll definately be going with something other than a JBJ tank. Right now I have a lot of stock in my cube and it is located in my *carpeted* bedroom. if the tank were to bust while I were not at home, I would not only lose my livestock but also face damages to my carpet, the floor beneat it, and the walls around it. So for those stating that it "isnt a big deal" that the cubes are cracking. I'd like to respond that it doesnt matter if JBJ will ship out a new one to me if this one cracks. Water damage to property and loss of livestock is much more important than some measly

$200 replacement cube.

 

When an acrylic alternative gets on the market. I'll be so happy to upgrade.

 

~randy

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Wow, what a difference a couple of days make.

 

It seems that the tides on this informal poll are turning.

 

Lets hope we dont hear of another one cracking.

 

ccjung - glad to see someone who is willing to stand up even at the cost of lost business. Good Job!

 

 

-Hank

 

"lovin my Oceanic 30"

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