Official JBJ Nano Cube Announcement

[Phil80]

Originally posted by SaltC

I dont know this doesnt seem right to me.  We understand your point and have since it was first made 40 posts and 5 threads ago.  JBJ is obviously stepping up to the plate. Let them do their business and let go.  

 

Your trying to scare the holy h3ll out of people over a 3+% return rate.  I dont know if you've ever been in sales but that is nothing.

 

I agree completely Salt. I bought a cube because of the "beginner post" SH created and now it seems as if we are getting minute by minute updates on the status of his replacement. I understand the good sides of letting others know about your experience, but to keep rehashing over and over and to continue to skirtedly dog a company who is trying to get you sorted isn't good for anyone. You've created a panic where one didn't need to be created and now the Nano Cube forum is filled with negative posts that new visitors will have to sift through to find any merit in. Especially the "STOP DO NOT BUY A NANO CUBE THEY SUCK d00d!!!" thread.

 

In the end JBJ is the one coming out on the short end. They are replacing your cube which quite possibly could have cracked as a result of any number of issues(many of them not even relative to manufacturing or shipping) all the while losing business because of all this negative publicity. As SC said...just calm down and let them get you sorted.

 

You're freaking us out dude!!!

 

Of lighter note, you freaked me out to the point I contacted the owner of our LFS chain here in Ohio regarding my NC I'd purchased last week asking if I could return or exchange it. His response was as follows:

 

You can certainly return the Nano Cube for a refund.  We have sold over

1,000 units and have heard of two or three shattering.  We addressed

this with JBJ and had new ones shipped in.  The new ones were not

stacked as high on the pallets.  We feel at this time that the ones we

are selling are fine.  Of course there is never 100% on anything.  Feel

assured that we will stand behind your Nano Cube.  If it breaks we will

take care of it.  Again, if you are not comfortable please feel free to

return it.  You should also know that there have been no reported

problems with the 6 gallon or 12 gallon.

Please feel free to contact me directly if you still have any concerns.

 

That's enough to satisfy me and will keep me going back to this chain of stores. Great stock and great customer service. I think your struggles should set future alarms off in your head..."You get what you pay for" seems apropos...as does the thought that certain things shouldn't be bought online...big GLASS cubes are one that probably would be high on that list. I don't think I'd ever purchase an aquarium online...it's worth the extra 100 bucks for peace of mind to buy locally.

 

my .02

[jaykay]

Agree with icecool, if I buy a tank, I'd expect it not to have major defects. Because they are replacing them now, doesn't make this acceptable. Especially considering the lost livestock, water damage, or just the hassle of tearing down and rebuilding the same tank. Its not worth the risk or the hassle.

 

Go with a refund on this one! <----opinion

[rbonin]

I don't really see where buying an aquarium online or from an LFS makes any difference. The tank still had to travel from point A to point B, and I doubt there is any difference in the number of transfers. Neither UPS/ FedEx nor the major trucking companies are particularly gentle with their freight.

 

So what is the difference?

 

-Rick-

[sNEIRBO]

Icecool -

 

Do I think JBJ thought EVERYTHING through from the beginning - obviously not. I've had 2 tanks crack in 1 week. They may not have done their homework at the beginning. They now recognize a problem, and they are trying to correct it. I'm saying you have to test these things about before you know for sure if you've corrected the problem. And they may not know for sure if they corrected the problem (or if the problem was even shipping to begin with) for 6 months, or maybe even a year.

 

In 6 months if they still have a 3.4% fall out rate, then I would think they, as well as us, could safely say that shipping is not the root cause. At that point they have to look at the next thing on the list - different design for the corners, thicker glass, etc. But you have to start testing somewhere, and you usually start with the easiest thing to change. From JBJ's standpoint, 96.6% of all the tanks they sell - DO NOT CRACK. So why should they think the glass thickness or the geometry is the issue? If the real problem was glass thickness or geometry, they'd have wholescale problems - not a 3.4% fallout.

[jaykay]

I'm convinced they knew about the many problems (not just the recent crackings) correlated with their products, and decided to go ahead with the defective product line anyways. Its more profitable to absorb a 3% return than cut off an entire line. No publicity statement, or promise of remedy can justify a bad product line. Call me crazy, but I believe they started this thread to quell the recent issues, and save their NC6 contest promotion. Just my opinion of course.

[Rott]

I just cant believe people here taking this so lightly. If the tank breaks and a fire starts you could lose your house or even worse your life. @#$^ ive read people here get more upset if someone asks if they can put a tang in a cube, and you can be sure that ill be checking my cube tonight. Sh sry about your tank bro.

JBJ needs to stop selling and recall the cubes until they fix this.

[sNEIRBO]

Exactly how would the fire start? The cracks are ocurring in the front of the tank. Is your tank setup so your plugs / electrical are laying on the floor in front of your tank? My tank cracked and leaked about half of it's 24 gallons all over my Office carpet on 6/11. No fire! The House is still standing! My electrical was all in the cabinet underneath my Cube. No water in there.

 

Do you have a TV in your house? They start fires! Better recall that too.

Do you have a coffee pot in your house? They start fires too!

How about an Iron, a Blow Dryer, a stove, a furnace, hot water heater, or any other number of things that can be - and have been - attributed to starting household fires.

 

It's a glass tank holding water you willing put in your house. No one forced you to do it. Accept your own portion of the responsibility for taking the risk of doing that! Do you think other tanks don't crack? Do you think this mode of failure is excluse to Nano Cubes?

 

This is simple - the only people that have a right to B**CH is anyone not being taken care of by JBJ. As I can see it right now - that's nobody! If you can make a better Cube - go do it. You don't like the system - drain your Cube and go buy a more expensive system. Enough already! They're trying to make this right for anyone who has had their tank crack. Give them the time to do it! And keep in mind - this is coming from the guy who has to replace his Office carpet, refinish his hardwood floors, repaint his basement ceiling and found out that 2 of his Nano Cubes cracked within 7 days. JBJ is not paying to do the repairs, nor have I asked them to. I was partly complicite in the destruction since I willing put a 24 Gallon glass cube of water in my House. JBJ didn't tell me to put it in my Office - I decided to do that.

 

"It's an imperfect world, screws fall out of doors all the time." - Bender, The Breakfast Club

[icecool2]

Originally posted by sNEIRBO

Icecool -  

 

Do I think JBJ thought EVERYTHING through from the beginning - obviously not.  I've had 2 tanks crack in 1 week.  They may not have done their homework at the beginning.  They now recognize a problem, and they are trying to correct it.  I'm saying you have to test these things about before you know for sure if you've corrected the problem.  And they may not know for sure if they corrected the problem (or if the problem was even shipping to begin with) for 6 months, or maybe even a year.  

 

In 6 months if they still have a 3.4% fall out rate, then I would think they, as well as us, could safely say that shipping is not the root cause.  At that point they have to look at the next thing on the list - different design for the corners, thicker glass, etc.  But you have to start testing somewhere, and you usually start with the easiest thing to change.  From JBJ's standpoint, 96.6% of all the tanks they sell - DO NOT CRACK.  So why should they think the glass thickness or the geometry is the issue?  If the real problem was glass thickness or geometry, they'd have wholescale problems - not a 3.4% fallout.

 

I see your point and I think it is well founded, but the timing is all wrong. I am an engineer and that isn't how these things work. The whole point of the engineering process is to come up with all of the problems and fix them before the product ever leaves the lab. I work for a producer of high speed mail sorting equipment and if we had failure rates as high as theirs we would never sell a machine.

 

The problem is that the time to do engineering work is before it leaves and goes to market. One of the simplest things to correct is the shipping method including packaging. They are just throwing out an excuse in my opinion that doesn't put them at fault.

 

Why should they think that the glass thickness or geometry is the problem? That's easy, the tank is made of glass with small radii and the breakage is occuring at that point. For something that is relatively simple in design, it really isn't that hard to do an analysis to determine what stresses the tank can withstand.

 

As far as I am concerned, they didn't do their job properly, they made a bad product (and several iterations and models of it), and they haven't done anything to correct the problem.

 

Sending out a new tank is great and I'm happy that they are doing it. It doesn't however make me any more confident in their product. If we take the number of cubes that were sold here and get the relative failure rate:

 

Using the data in a poll in another post, out of 34 cubes, 26 cubes are fine and 8 have either cracked or broken. The breakage rate relative to this forum alone is 23.5%. If we assume that the tanks are a part of a random sample, we can assume that the standard deviation of that frequency isn't 20% to get close to their proposed breakage rate. That would mean that there is a possibility of 43.5% of the tanks breaking.

 

The way I see it, any way you slice it this is a bad situation for all involved.

[sNEIRBO]

But you're basing your mean 23.5% failure rate on a non-random sample of cubes. JBJ and nanocustoms claims there are THOUSANDS of these Cubes sold per month. They're not seeing 23.5% of thousands being returned for cracks. Between my post 10 days ago, steelhealr's this weekend, and JBJ's on Monday, there have been close to 10,000 views of those 3 threads. The people who have experienced cracks, have voiced their discontent. Yes, I voted on that poll saying my tank cracked. Has everyone whose tank has NOT cracked voted on that poll - obviously not. Because I firmly believe that of the 15,000 plus registered members of this forum, there are more than 34 Nano Cube owners. Is there more than 234? If so, 8 reported cracks would be 3.4% of 234 hobbyists.

 

In the mail sorting Engineering industry, you may be able to think of all possibilities beforehand - I sure hope you do I want my mail! I can testify to the Automotive Supply side of Engineering. I have done hundreds of FMEAs (Failure Mode and Effects Analysis) in my career. We always miss something. I spent several hours at a Big 3 customer today discussing how a fastener broke - the failure mode was completely outside of our original FMEA - someone spilled foreign material into our containers contaminating the product, and the line operator used the fastener despite the material on the threads.X) Not sure where the material entered the packaging - my facility, the trucking company, or customer's plant. You can't think of everything. And when you do find a problem, you need to start somewhere to correct it. We control our facility and our trucking company - that's where we started today.

[Rott]

Are you serious! Just because we buy a product does not mean they are not resposible for it. Dont need to go into details.

[hopkins]

I also work for an automotive company. If we pushed out deffective products at 3% per day, there would be 60 cars not delivered on time. AND management would be replaced until the problem is fixed.

[sNEIRBO]

Originally posted by Rott

Are you serious! Just because we buy a product does not mean they are not resposible for it. Dont need to go into details.

 

I didn't say JBJ wasn't responsible, but they are NOT fully responsible for all losses. You need to accept part of the responsibility. I decided where to put my Nano Cube in my house knowing that there was a slight chance it might break and spill the water all over the floor. I assumed that possibility was less than 0.1% and I was wrong.

 

I can remember when I was telling my sister that I was going to set up this tank, she asked where I was going to put it. When I said in my Office she said "what if it breaks and spills all the water all over your computer?":*( I thought about it, then decided to put it in my Office but on the other side of my Office, away from the computer. After my Cube cracked and dumped half the water I decided it belonged in the basement where it would do less damage if it cracked again. What are the odds of the same guy getting 2 cracked Cubes?X)

 

Hopefully the odds of the same guy getting 3 cracked Cubes is less! Especially considering that Gamma-Cube is now coming directly from the source, so I can eliminate mishandling by the LFS as a possibilty of the cracks.

[Cellenzweig]

I didn't say JBJ wasn't responsible, but they are NOT fully responsible for all losses. You need to accept part of the responsibility. I decided where to put my Nano Cube in my house knowing that there was a slight chance it might break and spill the water all over the floor. I assumed that possibility was less than 0.1% and I was wrong.

Exactly, you assesed the risk to be extremely low. That should be a safe assumption. However, according to JBJ, the risk is 35x what you assumed. A 3.5% failure rate is pathetic.

 

Is it really worth possibly losing your house to a fire? (Yes a fire. People DO have powerbars on the floor. There IS electrical in the ceiling below. You were lucky, that's all.) For the price of what you have to spend on your floors alone, you could have bought a much nicer system. Instead, you bought a product that you believed was high quality and it wasn't. If a nano-cube cracks, there is almost guaranteed to be damage to your house. JBJ should take responsibility for their failures and cover all the damage that has been caused. Instead they continue to import a crappy product from a country know for terrible quality control, so they can make a huge profit (as mentioned above, they are $15 US in China - what do you think they pay? $5? Maybe $10?) The only reason your bear any responsibility is because you brought a second cube in your house. If the third cube fails, imo, you are 100% responsible.

[sNEIRBO]

There's the argument I always love - it only cost $15 in China so they must be making a fortune off of it here in the US. If you bought a Nano Cube from an eBay seller in China, how much do you think it would cost to ship it to your House?

 

That Sodas we all like to buy at 7-11, the syrup, water and carbonation costs them $0.05 to make. So why do they charge us $1.29? Packaging, distribution, advertising, etc., costs money. Profit is not simply what you sell it for minus what you paid for it.

 

The more I've researched tank failures, the more I'm convinced that cracked tanks are not the exclusive failure of JBJ and Nano Cubes. If you decided to get into the Aquarium hobby, you assume some risk that your house may experience water damage. Granted the majority of us would not have assumed that it would be due to a spontaneous crack failure, but you are assuming some responsibility for a failure none the less. If you've placed your Cube somewhere in your home assuming that there is absolutely no chance that it will crack and leak water, we now know that assumption is wrong. It apparently happens 3.4% of the time, or in my case 50% of the time (well 100% of the time on the crack, 50% of the time on the leak).

 

For everyone that has made up their mind this is an inferior product and a crack is inevitable, you better assess what you'll potential lose if your tank fails. If it's sitting on top of your Computer - you better move it. If it's sitting on top of your hardwood floors - you better move it. You are the ones saying it will likely crack, so when it does and you lose whatever it is you're worried about, you now have no one to blame. You've been warned!

 

As far as my costs for replacement of carpet, refinishing hardwood floors and repainting my ceiling - I've contacted my Homeowners Insurance to see if there is the possibility of a claim there. It was an accident, and that's what I pay my $1000 premium for every year - in case of an accident.

[Cellenzweig]

There's the argument I always love - it only cost $15 in China so they must be making a fortune off of it here in the US. If you bought a Nano Cube from an eBay seller in China, how much do you think it would cost to ship it to your House?

How much would it cost per unit if you shipped 1000? Not much. A friend of mine just moved back from China. She had 2 custom made crates built and shipped with all her belongings for less than the cost of her plane ticket. It's far less than you realize when you're dealing in volume

 

That Sodas we all like to buy at 7-11, the syrup, water and carbonation costs them $0.05 to make. So why do they charge us $1.29? Packaging, distribution, advertising, etc., costs money. Profit is not simply what you sell it for minus what you paid for it.

LOL! You picked the worst possible example. Any restaurant owner will tell you that soda is almost 100% profit. Of that $1.29, it is likely that at least $1.00 is profit between the store and the manufacturer.

 

As far as my costs for replacement of carpet, refinishing hardwood floors and repainting my ceiling - I've contacted my Homeowners Insurance to see if there is the possibility of a claim there. It was an accident, and that's what I pay my $1000 premium for every year - in case of an accident.

You're absolutely right, it should be covered. However, do you think your insurance company is going to just eat the loss? Not likely. Chances are they will make every attempt to subrogate against JBJ - especially if they get more than 1 of these claims...

[sNEIRBO]

Originally posted by Cellenzweig

LOL!  You picked the worst possible example.  Any restaurant owner will tell you that soda is almost 100% profit.  Of that $1.29, it is likely that at least $1.00 is profit between the store and the manufacturer.

 

You're exactly right - Fountain Drinks are nearly 100% profit, but I was referring to bottled sodas, not Big Gulps - I should have been more specific, or said Grocery Stores instead of 7-11 . . . X)

[calvin]

Originally posted by sNEIRBO

The more I've researched tank failures, the more I'm convinced that cracked tanks are not the exclusive failure of JBJ and Nano Cubes.  

 

sNEIRBO,

 

You've made a very flawed argument. No one is saying that other people's glass tanks don't crack. They're simply pointing out (as you did not too long ago!) that NCs are cracking a lot lately. You'll notice that there hasn't been a rash of complaints about Oceanic tanks, or Via Aquas, etc. Those tanks have to be shipped,

too, but they don't seem to be cracking (much). I also find it odd that everyone seems to assume that the 3% figure that JBJ threw out there must necessarily be true. I'm not saying that it's not, but I'm not so quick to assume it is like everyone else seems to be. Why not just admit that JBJ has really screwed up here? How many more people have to report cracked tanks before JBJ gets called on the carpet?

[Rott]

Is the 2005 dx model out yet and if so, Has anyone reported any cracks on them too? I have the older model one, I'm really paranoid about it cracking. I'll have to move it to the garage, if had it for 2 months now, so hopefully ill be ok. Very disapointed with JBJ, I love my cube too, its why i got into this hobby.

[sNEIRBO]

Originally posted by calvin

How many more people have to report cracked tanks before JBJ gets called on the carpet?

 

ONE, mine.

 

JBJ stepped up and took care of my problem to my satisifaction. Thanks JBJ!

 

LOVE the Hobby!

LOVE the Cube!

[yellowbird53]

This is not a cracking issue but an unanswered, as yet, by JBJ, problem, that by concencious, is a wide spread problem.

The stock pumps used in the 24g DX overheat. The overheating gets progressivly worse with time. I have had mine up for 4 months, and I am at the point now where I get a 2-3 water temp rise within two hours of activating pump. Water temps return to normal after pump is deactivated.

This is a pump problem, and should be addressed by JBJ. Please respond JBJ, and any Nano-er's w/the same issue, your .02 would be appreciated.

Start a new thread if youy want to respond, JBJ, but please dop. all email to JBJ are unanswered.

Please help. Thanks.

Namaste

R

[steelhealr]

Yellowbird.....JBJ has an opportunity here. I think it is clear, as s'NEIRBO said, that the company has stepped up to the plate and honored it's commitment to it's customers by replacing tanks (and rapidly). They have also honored the warranty on modified tanks, which, I think DOES go above and beyond.

 

Many of us are fond of the tank's looks and contained system. They only stand to benefit from improving the tank and, despite some posts here, this could turn around to actually be a boon to them if they are actually monitoring this forum. If it was me, I would have assigned one of my 'engineers' to scrutinize this forum with a fine tooth comb.

 

Imagine the following announcement:

 

JBJ announces it's NEW 2006 Nano Cube:

--new reinforced seamless glass corners to maintain the tank's prismatic effect

==double reinforced packaging

==upgraded lighting to support all types of coral including SPS and independently operated moonlight LEDs for use with timers

--new suface skimmer

--etc

I think there would be a flood of new customers. We'll ALL be able to see what unfolds as the year goes by. SH

[jaykay]

Their "engineers" should be used designing a product thats dependable, not telling hobbyists where they're wrong.

[jaykay]

I think the truth is JBJ isn't a quality maker. A lot of people seem to block that thought, put more $cash$ in to refining it, and become attached to it for whatever reason. I'll be the first to admit that JBJ has never been on the same calibre, or class as Oceanic, or even Via Aqua. Its time we accept the fact that their tanks aren't the perfect, sleek, biotope that the design projects. Looking at all the mods and replacements out there, its FAR from it. A bad product is easily pointed out, and it doesn't get any more obvious than this case.

[doncb]

Originally posted by jaykay

I think the truth is JBJ isn't a quality maker.  A lot of people seem to block that thought, put more $cash$ in to refining it, and become attached to it for whatever reason.  I'll be the first to admit that JBJ has never been on the same calibre, or class as Oceanic, or even Via Aqua.  Its time we accept the fact that their tanks aren't the perfect, sleek, biotope that the design projects.  Looking at all the mods and replacements out there, its FAR from it.  A bad product is easily pointed out, and it doesn't get any more obvious than this case.

 

JBJ doesn't make or design the NC. They are a distributor for the company in China that makes them. So if you have a problem with the design maybe you need to talk to the designers in China.

 

Look at all the mods, etc. that have to be done to many other brands of tanks. Via Aqua? Oh. look! I have to MOD it with a HOB to get the SAME function that's BUILT-IN to the NC. Geez, that 36watts of light aren't much. Guess I need to MOD the hood too. Get an AGA. Got to MOD it too. Oceanic same thing. Hmm, no different than the NC.

 

The NC is fine out of the box FOR WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO. Some like to add mods to enable the tank to do more. Does that mean that the design is somehow lacking? No, it just means that some people want to do something different. The same reason people MOD cars. Can you keep a clam in a stock NC? No, but then JBJ never said it was designed to. I have a STOCK NC and am fine w/ the design. Mine is in my living room and I don't want a bunch of hang on boxes , hoses and cables making my room look like some kind of science experiment.

 

No, NC's aren't perfect. No one said they were. At least JBJ is standing behind the product they sell which is a lot more than can be said for some companies.

[jaykay]

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...8627#post538627

 

 

Calling China.