Just got my Nanocustoms Larnie Hood and.........

[mdt178]

As others have said, relying on the u-tube to provide siphon will be tricky.

Have you consider drilling the back of the cube? Has anyone done that?

[Tigahboy]

2 pump idea will not work. and relying on a siphon is a lot harder than you think (esp. since you are relying on just a u-tube). What will kick-start the siphon again once the level drops and the u-tube stops siphoning?

 

do a search on overflows. there's tons of information out there and most should point towards having your tank drilled (not U-tubes, siphons, or 2 pump-systems). having a gravity-fed overflow w/ one pump is the most reliable way to go about doing this, and to do that, you will need to have your tank cut for a bulkhead. good luck.

[leaffish75]

I use a small pump to pump water from my 6 gallon tank to the refugium then its gravity feed back to the tank. I use this method on my 20L also and it works great.

[Tigahboy]

that works too. as long as one is gravity fed (so it will be higher than the other tank) and the other uses one pump, it should be fine.

[Mjames4]

Sorry to all for not responding before this but I have been working every night on this project and it appears that I have it worked out. Here's the overview...syphon to fuge, pump return, 2 pumps were just not going to work. As everyone has expressed, I had a few concerns with this method that needed to be overcome before I moved ahead. Firstly, how do I address a runaway syphon...ie...the return pump quits and the tank continues to syphon to the fuge. I have addressed this 2 ways, one is with a "syphon break", which is nothing more than a 1/4 inch hole drilled in the u-tube just below the water line. Once the water level drop below the "syphon break", air enters the tube and breaks the syphon. I have tried this theory 5 times and it has worked everytime. There is another way as well, and thats to mearly cut the u-tube short enough to be below the water line, end result the same. Ok so that addresses the return pump quiting, now what if the syphon quits flowing (low water level in the tank) and the return pump continues to send water from the fuge to the tank. Well thanks to my job, I was able to find a simple float switch that allowed me to tie the pump to it. Once the water in the fuge reaches a certain level, the float switch kicks the pump off. As far as the chiller, that was addressed by making the chiller loop from one side of the fuge to the other, with a samll pump in the fuge moving it through the chiller. Wow....that was long winded.

 

Mark

[SurfOnH20]

Mark, it sounds like your getting a handle on things..Thanks for keeping us posted on your efforts.Again, we are looking for more photos when this is said and done. Good luck and we will hear from you soon..

[aaronfmd]

what did you end up using to pump the water back up to the tank?

[Mjames4]

aaronfmd

A Mag2 external pump

[schaadrak]

If you're dead set on a siphon, 2 pumps would be better. One to start the siphon and one to return water to the display. You can use a second float switch to turn the siphon pump on or off depending on the level of water in your fuge/sump. Overflows are easier to manage, though.

[Mjames4]

schaadrak

 

Thanks for the input! I guess I should have stated that I came up with a way to start the syphon as well. Basically I added a "T" below the u-tube. This allows me to run a tube above the u-tube with a screw on cap. I also added two ball valves, one on the supply and one on the return. To start the syphon I close the ball valve coming from the tank (just before the fuge), unscrew the cap on the "T", fill the line with water up to the u-tube, replace the cap and open the ball valve, instant syphon. The problem I found with running 2 pumps is the balance. Even with 2 pumps of the same make, model and size, one ALWAYS out runs the other. I know you could use the ball valves to try and balance the flow, but they are never going to be "right". Not to mention that using the valves to control flow only causes an already hot pump to run hotter.

 

Mark

[Tigahboy]

Originally posted by Mjames4

The problem I found with running 2 pumps is the balance. Even with 2 pumps of the same make, model and size, one ALWAYS out runs the other.

Once again, if you did a simple search before setting this tank up, you would've found out that this problem is the very reason why ppl don't run 2 pumps. it only gets worse as time goes by. drill a hole in the back for gravity overflow, it will solve your problems.

[Mjames4]

Tigahboy

Thanks once again for your input, but with all due respect....What "problems" is it that I am having?

 

Mark

[Tigahboy]

I was merely referring to the problem of 2 pumps.

 

As to your overall set-up in question, I know you are relying on a float switch as a fail-safe, but float switches themselves inherently have reliability problems as well. Your overall design relies on a number of components, each having inherent reliability problems down the road, which results in an increase in potential future complications overall. These complications have been addressed many many times, so I won't go into depth about each all over again. But the option to have a simple gravity overflow, rate of which is dictated by one return pump (and of course size of the bulkhead), simplifies the potential problems of flooding to just one or two variables.

 

I know you are set on having the design done in your "own" way, so I'm not really addressing these issues here for your sake per se, but more for others who may follow your design, w/o considering all the other factors, to find that it won't serve their best interests in the long-run.

[Mjames4]

Tigahboy

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. Although I don't completely agree with all of your points, many are very valid. If I were dealing with a 180 gallon tank and stand I would have addressed this setup very differently. But the reality is I have 12 gallon tank and a very small stand and I'm trying to keep everything within that setup. I do agree with your comments about "typical" float switches, but in all fairness I have not shown you this one yet. This switch relies on conduction between to rods that are submerged below the water line. I will try to post a photo of it later today so you can get an idea of what I mean. My goals here were to insure that I would not overflow the tank or the fuge or run either one dry and I think I have done a fairly good job at addressing both. But as they say.....One mans floor is another mans ceiling.

 

Mark

[emoutz]

As a cheap and easy solution to the overflow/pumps/syphon problems - what about this?

 

I've got an old but powerful canister filter. Say I put the TOP of the canister filter in a 10 gallon tank, suspended on something, and then attached the input/output lines to the nano. Basically I'd let the canister pump water into and out of the 10 gallon. Wouldnt the result be that water would fill the tank up to the level of my canister's intake and then be pumped back into the tank? I'd aim a powerhead at the canister so as to assist water being pumped into the tank from stagnating below the canister. The only flaw I see is that you would have to carefully monitor the canister to be sure that water levels stay where they should (but I should be doing that anyway, right?

[Neil UK]

I have to agree with Tigahboy, the overflow idea has dangers. I have read too many times of the anti-syphon hole becoming blocked with algae or deritus and then failing. Why dont you build yourself a small over flow box as per the diagram. This will overcome the problems and is a tried and tested method if you cannot get the tank drilled.

 

Box A is in the tank with an overflow wier comb. Box B is outside the tank connected to the fuge with a pipe. Fill A and B with water. Attach an airline with an inline tap to the nipple on the U tube. Suck on the airline, water will be drawn into the U tube until it fills and a syphon will start. Close the valve on the airline and start the return pump. Thats about it. The water level in the tank will increase, flow through the U tube and overflow in box B back into the fuge. If the level in the tank drops, the water will not move from A to B but the syphon tube remains full of water, so if the level increases again, the water begins to flow again and so on. The level of the top of the tube in "B" should be at the desired tank water level.

 

This is the general principal for an overflow box and is easily made from acrylic sheeting.

[Neil UK]

Here is a commercial version so you can see the idea in principal....

[Neil UK]

Another view from inside the tank...

[Mjames4]

Neil UK

 

That is an great idea, I am going to look a little further into it for my application. I did fail to mention that in conjuction with the syphon break hole in my u-tube, I have also limited the length of the u-tube as well. That way, if the hole does in fact become blocked, the short tube will prevent much water from draining to the fuge.

 

Thanks!

 

Mark

[schaadrak]

Now everybody's happy. You get your siphon and Tigah gets an overflow, best of both worlds. Even I'm happy as now I found a set-up that doesn't require me to try and drill/dremel holes in my Eclipse.

[Mjames4]

Well, it's done....Finally! Here are a couple of photo's. Has been running for 2 days, no leaks and no pump or syphon problems. The float switch and syphon break all function perfectly.

[Mjames4]

Another View

[Mjames4]

One more.....

[Web Guy]

Looks nice!!!

[Rott]

Where is the skimmer?