Dinos taking over

[DEL 707]

I have 56l tank that is 9 weeks old.
I've been dealing with a dino problem which has been increasingly worse. It started as few small patches on the sand, but now it's thicker and becoming more noticeable on the rockwork as well.
 

My setup is -

• 56l Tank
• 7-8kg of dry rock
• AI Nero 3
• AI Blade Coral Grow 21"
• Fluval 107 Canister Filter (I've removed half the sponges and replaced them with seachem biomedia and carbon)

Stock is -

• Yellow Clown Goby
• Tailspot Blenny
• 2 x Fireshrimp
• 2 x Red Leg Hermit Crab
• 1 x Trochus Snail
• 1 x Nassarius Snail

For corals, I only have 2 small colonies of GSP. I keep them on small rocks on the sand to stop them spreading.

I feed twice a day. Morning and evening. I've tried various products, but they only seem to eat brine shrimp. *Occasionaly* the blenny will eat some Seaweed Extreme.

I was doing 25% water changes every week, because of it being a nano tank with a canister filter. But I've noticed that my nitrates and phosphate have dropped to 0.
This weekend I decided to only do a 10% water change. Before the water change I decided to test, and nitrate and phosphate were both 0.
I'm currently not doing any kind of dosing. But I have added some AF Life Force to see if that would help.
With flow, I have the AI blade at 5000lph on pulse mode, 5 seconds on, 1 second off. The canister is 500lph, so I'm at roughly 100x turnover.

Salinity is 35 ppt. I have a small ATO setup.
I have an Ink Bird that keeps the temperature around 26 °C

I rented a par unit a while back, before the dinos. I currently run the lights at 60%. So the sand bed is receiving about 100par.
 

I'm thinking about holding off on water changes until I start seeing nitrate and phosphate.

Can anyone give me some advice on how to counter my dino problem?

[ReefGoat]

First thing you need to do is make sure you’re dealing with Dino’s. Because if it is. How you treat them is going to depend on which strain you’re dealing with. There’s always the possibility you’re dealing with cyano instead of Dino. How you been noticing your CUC dying unexpectedly? 
 

buy a cheap microscope. 
 

I will tell you this though. Every tank I’ve started with dry rock ended up with Dino’s in very short time from setting up. Every tank I’ve used ocean rock. Never got Dino’s. there are people (LOTS of people) who have success with dry rock and sand. But I’m not one of them. 

[DEL 707]

3 minutes ago, ReefGoat said:

buy a cheap microscope. 

 

Can you recommend something that I can pick up in the UK?

[ReefGoat]

Just now, DEL 707 said:

 

Can you recommend something that I can pick up in the UK?

Does Amazon operate in the UK? If so I’d just shoot over there and have one in a couple days at your doorstep

[DEL 707]

Would something like this do the job?

It goes up to 1000x

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Microscope-50X-1000X-Magnification-Adjustable-Compatible/dp/B0CB5GHG3L/ref=asc_df_B0CB5GHG3L/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10213606511327006518&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006483&hvtargid=pla-2281435177658&psc=1&mcid=d4ae01d7eba5306e824ddb80a0c6e5d8&hvocijid=10213606511327006518-B0CB5GHG3L-&hvexpln=74&gad_source=1

[Staticmoves]

bebang 100x-2000x microscope, about 79 pound.

this is what you want.

good bang for your buck.

the camera ones are great for looking at coral for pests.

 

check out Mack’s Reef on Facebook. 

[nolanrob123]

I had this happen too. In the end I was keeping my tank too clean. I stopped water changes, stopped skimming and fed as normal. Within a week I could see it starting to die off. This was after spending months trying to get it under control. 

[seabass]

You can determine if it's dinos or not by using the "shake test":

• Put a sample of it in a covered container and shake it up thoroughly.
• Strain the water through a paper towel (to remove bits of sand) into a clear glass and expose the sample to your tank lighting.
• If after an hour or so, it groups back together, you have dinos.

While you can't determine the species this way, you can determine if it is dinos or something else (like cyano).  However, you would need a microscope to determine the species of dinos, which is sometimes important when deciding on a treatment.  For example, A UV sterilizer might be used to help treat Ostreopsis.

[DEL 707]

8 hours ago, nolanrob123 said:

I had this happen too. In the end I was keeping my tank too clean. I stopped water changes, stopped skimming and fed as normal. Within a week I could see it starting to die off. This was after spending months trying to get it under control. 

Think I'm going to try that route.

 

I've ordered that microscope, so more money down the money pit.

 

Also thinking of ordering a small amount of live rock rubble and live sand to get more bacteria in the tank.

[nolanrob123]

56 minutes ago, DEL 707 said:

Think I'm going to try that route.

 

I've ordered that microscope, so more money down the money pit.

 

Also thinking of ordering a small amount of live rock rubble and live sand to get more bacteria in the tank.

Do not add more live rock etc. That’s going to change your parameters. I would suggest just going a week or two without skimming, no water changes and normal feeding. You’ll notice the difference. 

[DEL 707]

Microscope turned up, I have no idea what I'm doing.

 

I pulled a tuft of the algae off the sand had a go.

 

 

Any idea what this stuff is?

[ReefGoat]

What power setting were these taken under. In these photos I don’t see any Dino’s. 
 

I wouldn’t view your purchase as a waste. It’s a VERY handy tool to have around for a reef tank. For situations just as this. It’s going to help you choose a course of action. 

[ReefGoat]

This is a stock photo off google search of something similar to what you’d see if you had Dino’s. I’m not sure what power this was taken at though. 
 

they’ll also be moving around if they’re Dino’s. Little circles that move around. The different strains also have different movement characteristics 

[PootiNe]

That looks more like cyano to me than dino?

 

Do you see brown stringy things with bubbles on them?

[Staticmoves]

5 hours ago, DEL 707 said:

Microscope turned up, I have no idea what I'm doing.

 

I pulled a tuft of the algae off the sand had a go.

 

 

Any idea what this stuff is?

Take a small sample of the offending substance. Put in a small vial with tank water, shake vigorously, then add a drop or two on the slide, add glass cover slip, and check again.

200x and 400x mag.

if Dino’s, should look similar to this.

 

The little tiny guys, not the spider looking cool guy.

[DEL 707]

9 hours ago, Staticmoves said:

Take a small sample of the offending substance. Put in a small vial with tank water, shake vigorously, then add a drop or two on the slide, add glass cover slip, and check again.

200x and 400x mag.

if Dino’s, should look similar to this.

 

IMG_7610.mov 17.79 MB · 0 downloads  

The little tiny guys, not the spider looking cool guy.

Thanks, I'll have another go tonight.

[DEL 707]

Took your advice and added a tuft to vial of tank water and gave it a good shake.

 

Saw some movement, so I made videos instead this time.

 

 

 

 

I saw a few things that looked like dinos, but not in mass numbers.

 

I tried different tufts from over the tank, sand, rock etc. All looked very similar.

[ReefGoat]

Algae ID 2 and 3 I for sure saw some swimming circular creatures. 
 

you’re likely dealing with some Dino’s. 
 

hone in a ID closer look at their body structure and take note of their swimming patterns and then head on over to the GIANT Dino thread on Reef 2 Reef. You should be able to get what you need from there and a course of action. 
 

im pretty sure that one part of course of action with all strains is to up your biodiversity and keep your nutrients elevated and don’t let let them bottom out. I believe when most people start growing other algae’s that out compete the Dino’s. They win. Then you’ll have to mitigate that algae and balance out your tank and not let the nutrients bottom out again.
 

If you can’t get ocean rock in your country. You need to find a reputable reefer with a mature tank and buy some stuff from them. Cups of sand, rocks or rock rubble, bio media etc. just verify that the tank you’re buying from isn’t infested with a bunch of BS. 
 

the other courses of action vary from strain to strain. 

[DEL 707]

Thanks for the feedback.

Getting live rock is a complete pain, but I have ordered 500g of cured live rock rubble. Also put some live sand on the order.

 

My nitrate and phosphate have been 0 for nearly 2 weeks despite some messy feeding so also ordered some Zlements nitrate and phosphate.

 

Hopefully be here for the weekend.

[anizato]

On 10/14/2024 at 4:54 AM, DEL 707 said:

Think I'm going to try that route.

 

I've ordered that microscope, so more money down the money pit.

 

Also thinking of ordering a small amount of live rock rubble and live sand to get more bacteria in the tank.

return it before the 30 days 😉

[PootiNe]

I had to battle dinos two times in the past year in a tank started with dead rock. A few things that seemed to help:

 

1. Running UV when the lights are off.

2. Dosing a mixture of ~0.5ppm NO3 and 0.03 ppm PO4 per day.

3. Dosing silicate - Brightwell SpongExcel is the one I got - ~0.2 ppm per day.

 

UV worked pretty well the first time, but a combination of all three was used to clear up the dinos the second time (might have had amphidinium in the mix).

[mcarroll]

On 10/13/2024 at 4:05 PM, DEL 707 said:

I was doing 25% water changes every week, because of it being a nano tank with a canister filter. But I've noticed that my nitrates and phosphate have dropped to 0.
This weekend I decided to only do a 10% water change. Before the water change I decided to test, and nitrate and phosphate were both 0.

Easy mistake to make....but the best way to think about it (IMO) is that you're simply out of capacity to do water changes any more.  Let the tank be at least until things have normalized on your no3 and po4 tests.  ≥5 ppm NO3 and ≥0.10 ppm PO4 would be excellent target numbers for a recovery.

 

On 10/13/2024 at 4:05 PM, DEL 707 said:

I'm thinking about holding off on water changes until I start seeing nitrate and phosphate.

That's a good start.  👍

 

On 10/14/2024 at 7:54 AM, DEL 707 said:

I've ordered that microscope, so more money down the money pit.

"Knowledge for knowledge's sake" has always been a good enough excuse for me.   Looking through the scope can be a lot of fun, in addition to being educational.

 

If you're REALLY serious about the money pit angle, this *might* not be the right hobby.

 

On 10/14/2024 at 7:54 AM, DEL 707 said:

Also thinking of ordering a small amount of live rock rubble and live sand to get more bacteria in the tank.

 Always a good move to use as close to 100% live rock as you can.   After the fact is not as good (cure vs prevention), but it will help.  Get the nutrients corrected in the tank first tho.

 

On 10/15/2024 at 3:13 PM, DEL 707 said:

I saw a few things that looked like dinos, but not in mass numbers.

I'd say that's a healthy assemblage of algae that happens to include some dino's.   That, as opposed to a Dino outbreak.

 

Pefect timing to catch it....stop doing what you're doing to contribute to it, possibly make some minor corrections to water quality (eg. dosing no3 and po4) and chances are that will be the end of it.

 

Also, don't forget to build up your clean up crew to keep ALL the algae in the tank trimmed down.

 

Seems like you're on the right track!

 

[DEL 707]

I've started dosing nitrate and phosphate. Unfortunately the live rock rubble that was meant to be here yesterday won't be turning pu till mid next week.

 

With regards to CUC, how many crabs and snails should I get for a 56l tank?

 

[DEL 707]

I've been dosing nitrate and phosphate for 3 days so far with not much of a change. 

Tonight, nitrate is 2ppm and phosphate is still showing 0.

 

I'm following these dosing instuctions.

 

Quote

 

Nitro+

 

10ml of NitroPlus will increase ~1ppm of NO3 in 100l of aquarium water.

Once Nitrate levels are determined, we recommend only increasing 1-2ppm of NO3 per day by dosing the required amount and waiting 24h to test NO3 levels. This procedure should be repeated until the desired levels of NO3 are achieved.

 

 

Phos+

 

1ml of PhosPlus will increase ~0.01ppm of PO4 in 100l of aquarium water.

Once Phosphate levels are determined, we recommend only increasing 0.01-0.02ppm of PO4 per day by dosing the required amount and waiting 24h to test PO4 levels. This procedure should be repeated until the desired levels of PO4 are achieved.

 

 

Given that I have a 56l tank, I've been dosing 10ml of Nitro+ and 1ml of Phos+.

 

Should I try increasing my dosage or stick with what I'm doing?

[seabass]

On 10/20/2024 at 4:05 PM, DEL 707 said:

Given that I have a 56l tank, I've been dosing... 1ml of Phos+.

So that would in theory, raise phosphate levels about 0.02ppm (which might not even be detectable with a lot of phosphate test kits).  I'd probably up that to 2 or 3ml and continue to closely monitor.