Cycling tank, nitrites not coming down.

[DEL 707]

Really wish I kept a diary of this stuff, but I'll do my best to post all the info I have.

 

I setup a 56l tank on the 14th of July.

 

I started out with just 7-8kg of dry rock and live sand. I added some Evolution Aqua "Pure Reef Balance" bacteria balls and started dosing Dr Tims ammonia solution.

Over time ammonia slowly went down and nitrites went up. The problem is nitrites refused to come down.

I have a redsea and Salifert nitrite test kits. Redsea only goes up to 1ppm and the salifert only goes up to 4ppm. My test results were showing 4ppm.

Dr Tims instructions say that if nitrite goes above 5ppm, that you need to do a big water change.

25th of July I did a 30l water change to get my nitrites down. I also added a Fluval 107 canister filter to the tank, removed some sponges and added Seachem Matrix biomedia.

 

With Nitrites down, I dosed Dr Tims again.

Ammonia went down pretty quickly but nitrites shot off the chart again.

On Tuesday this week, 30th July, I did another 30l water, added a bottle of Dr Tims "One and Only" and dosed more ammonia.

 

Today, ammonia is sitting about 0.2-0.4ppm and once again, nitrites are off the chart.

 

I'm not really sure what to do from here.

Do I do another water change?

Or do I wait for nitrites to come down, even if it means ammonia hitting 0?

 

[anizato]

hey whats up! welcome to the community/hobby!

 

i think your first mistake was doing the first water change. just let it be and be patient my friend. I would have just continued to wait. remember you are growing microscopic colonies of bacteria, it takes time. and once they grow they will take an additional amount of time to balance themselves out, and as you add stuff to the tank that will all affect how the bacteria reacts, which is why sometimes people have bacterial blooms etc. 

 

you didn't mention testing for nitrate. what does that say?

 

just wait for the bacteria population to do its thing. i don't know about the bioballs, so i don't know what they do to your water, but if they are nitrifying bacteria, seems like they are just doing their thing. 

how much ammonia are you adding? to what ppm do you raise ammonia when you add it to the water?

 

keep testing daily around the same time and keep record of the results. you will need to test daily for a hwhile so get used to it. after the tank cycles you need to start testing for ALK, CA, MAG and phosphate as well so once you add coral and critters you know how they all fluctuate the parameters. Once you know how your livestock and feeding affect your parameters you can stop testing daily and move one to testing more weekly/monthly 

 

in my opinion don't do any more WC until your nitrites are 0 and ammonia is 0. trust that things are happening. start testing nitrates. once it all cycles then do the large WC. read nitrates, and if they are high, do another WC until your Nitrates drop below 10ppm. then you can start adding things, turning on the lights, etc

[ReefGoat]

I’ve never tested for nitrites in any reef tank I’ve ever had. Only nitrates

 

my dry rock and dry sand setups took anywhere from 4-6 weeks to cycle. You’re just over two weeks and you’re rushing this. You need to chill and let the tank do its thing and stop messing with stuff. 

[DEL 707]

1 hour ago, anizato said:

you didn't mention testing for nitrate. what does that say?

 

I just tested for nitrates, think they're 20+? I have a hard time reading these things.

 

23 minutes ago, ReefGoat said:

my dry rock and dry sand setups took anywhere from 4-6 weeks to cycle. You’re just over two weeks and you’re rushing this. You need to chill and let the tank do its thing and stop messing with stuff. 

 

I don't want to kill anything I throw in there, but I need to know what I do about ammonia dosing.

[anizato]

you cant add a single thing for a while buddy. your ammonia needs to be at 0, and not only that, it needs to be at 0 after dosing ammonia to 2ppm and retest 24 hours later to see your ammonia and nitrite both go to zero within 24 hours, THEN your tank is cycled.

 

Basically, as long as you have nitrites, you sit and wait. once you have zero nitrites... you should also have zero ammonia. at this point you add ammonium chloride to raise it back up to 2ppm ... test the next day, if ammonia and nitrite are both at 0, then you test for nitrate again. regardless of the nitrate level, it just indicates the level of bacterial activity during your cycle, mine read 60+ppm when my cycle was done. If the next day the result is NOT zero, you are NOT READY, then you wait STILL and repeat again for it to reach zero and repeat until your bacteria can actually consume 2ppm of ammonia within 24hrs.

So once you reach this point your tank is fully cycled, not a minute before, do the WC to bring nitrates down to reasonable levels and then you can slow start adding things like beginner coral and or clean up crew and also finally turn on the lights.

[mcarroll]

On 8/2/2024 at 3:22 PM, DEL 707 said:

Really wish I kept a diary of this stuff, but I'll do my best to post all the info I have.

On 8/2/2024 at 3:22 PM, DEL 707 said:

I'm not really sure what to do from here.

Do I do another water change?

Or do I wait for nitrites to come down, even if it means ammonia hitting 0?

I think I hear your exasperation, DEL 707.  Just so you know, cycling a tank should be easy and almost foolproof...but this method is neither.

 

Doesn't seem like you're following the package directions for your bacteria balls.  Can you tell us what instructions you are following for your cycle method?  (Link?)  It might help for us to know exactly what steps you have been trying to follow.  

 

If you hadn't considered following the package directions, that would almost certainly have been a better/simpler way to start out:

Quote

Use 1 PURE Reef Balance ball per 25 litres of aquarium water, every 2 weeks. Place the balls directly into a filter section or sump. For best results place in an area of water flow. PURE Reef Balance is also suitable for use in filter socks and net bags, fluidised reactors or refugiums.

From: https://evolutionaqua.com/pure-reef-balance

 

 The test numbers and symptoms you've posted suggest that you may have overdosed ammonia – maybe more than once.  

• Overdosing will compromise/slow down the total cycle time.  
• You are almost forced to overdose just to get ammonia levels to register on most test kits.
• Even nitrifying bacteria can be hurt by ammonia – they do not require high levels of ammonia to grow.
• Check out the Dr Tim's or other competent resources on so-called "fishless cycling" that address the issue of overdosing ammonia.  Their info also suggests you may have created a pH issue, even if there was no overdose.  (Both could be true tho, coincidentally or via cause-effect...an OD is very likely to create a pH issue, but other factors can lead to that as well.) 

FYI, the "natural method" for cycling a tank is SO MUCH EASIER.  It's almost entirely hands-off, requires no testing (but an Ammonia Alert badge is always a nice no-work insurance policy) and finishes reliably in 30-40 days.  Ask about it or look it up if it sounds interesting.  If it helps, Martin Moe's books have been a good beginner resource for core reefing concepts like this since the 1980's – if you don't know what other book to start with, start with his.*  

 

Alternately, using bottled bacteria according to the package directions is another better option.  You can still resume this course.

 

Note:  Even Dr Tim's website says that fishless cycling is not necessary – their main patented product is for avoiding the ammonia spike.  Making an artificial ammonia spike to start a bio-filter is an idea more at home in large aquaculture operations where large populations of fish are moved from system to system as they grow out, thus making an "instant bio-filter" that has no chance of transmitting pathogens an obvious benefit.   Bottled bacteria are really for cases that are more like that – when you need to start up a bio-filter and it instantly needs to be at maximum capacity.  Most successful new tank startups have no need to be done in a hurry like that tho, especially not by beginners....so accommodating that 30-40 day window to grow out your bacterial population naturally isn't generally an issue.

 

So those are some ideas – but if you want to keep on the path you're on, then I agree with being patient, letting things play out on their own for another couple of weeks or so – remember the basic biology says that 30-40 days is your baseline for how long it takes for the bacteria to grow out, assuming you don't help/interfere.

 

FYI, you are going through snafu's that are quite common with this method.  If you do a couple searches across the forums, it could be surprising to see how many threads are started due to problems with fishless cycling.   Not talking about livestock loss mind you...but trouble with the method just not working as expected.  (Of course some do experience livestock loss too.)  

 

 * Just to get you started....for the natural method you start off with something tiny like a hermit crab or snail for your ammonia source – not with a fish, rotten meat or chemical ammonia.  Starting with live rock can be even better, but that's another subject. 😉 

[Tamberav]

Your cycle looks normal to me... ammonia > nitrite > nitrate

 

You have them all! 🙂

 

Nitrite takes longer to process in the beginning (then ammonia) so it being high is normal... it isn't toxic to fish. I never test for it since it doesn't matte what it is... if you have Nitrate than you had Nitrite. Basically the bacteria to process nitrite into nitrate take longer to establish than the ones from ammonia into nitrite. It will eventually get to 0 or very low on the test kit. Again, it isn't toxic to saltwater fish so the number isn't very important for life. 

 

Nitrate again looks fine, at the end of the cycle (when ammonia is being processed quickly), you just do a water change to bring Nitrates down. Done. 

 

 

 

[DEL 707]

Thank you for all the replies.

 

The tank finished it's cycle on the 7th and the 1st livestock went in on the 10th. A yellow clown goby.

 

I did a water change yesterday and did some water testing today.

 

Ammonia - 0

Nitrite - 0

Nitrate - 10-20

 

All looking good so far.

Lights went on, on the 10th and now I'm starting to see brown algae spots on the sand and glass. Not much at the moment, but slowly growing.

Hoping it's just diatoms and not something worse.

[anizato]

Nice job! 

Don't let that algae get out of hand. Use a brush, syphon it out, catch it in the filter etc, of course some people also have success with not doing anything and letting is do its thing.
Keep stirring the sand once a day, scrape your glass once a day, and some reefkeepers like to turkey baste the rock also (to each their own, I'm just giving you general ideas of what people choose to do or not do for maintenance on a small tank - success is defined by yourself so don't let anyone tell you what to do, just inform yourself well before making decisions, be responsible with the life that is in your hands and have fun!)
If you have filter floss or a filter sock don't let them get too dirty before switching them out. 

 

When you start adding coral, you want to start testing for ALK & CA. The Hanna dKH reader is prettty easy to use as well as the Salifert for Calcium, you are done in less than 3 minutes testing both of them. Keep these numbers stable my friend and doing your weekly water changes you will be successful long term.

 

just my two worthless pennies