Jump to content
inTank Media Baskets

No-Fish Zoa 5gal Setup Advice


lefnui

Recommended Posts

I've wanted to get into coral for a long time–soooo while in a manic state last month I decided to order a Buttmuncher Zoa polyp (singular lol) without doing nearly enough research or having a tank set up. I did enough to know about the coral itself–that I was getting a beginner-friendly one and all its ideal parameters etc.

The coral arrived before I even had a tank to set up so I ran to my lps and got a 5g tank that came with as much as possible along with heaters, thermometers, live rock, aragonite sand, water test kits, and some additives (see lists at the end). I managed to rush the set up and the zoa acclimated pretty dang quick in a tank that wasn't cycled and it's been doing surprisingly well! Even grew a second polyp!

I'm in the middle of reading through The Nano-Reef Handbook and I'm definitely starting to get a good handle on the water chemistry, but I'm really struggling with the gear side of things.
I don't have any fish in my tank and I don't plan to, I'm only really interested in corals and I'd like to have a mini zoa garden eventually, but I obviously still have a lot of work to do.

 

I'm also moving this Saturday so I'm busy preparing for that! My plan is to do a water change tomorrow (Tuesday), secure the coral frag to a live rock with reef glue and epoxy (I've had it resting on a rock in a place where it fits nicely), prep more water for a change after the move, bring the current tank water in jugs, replace the sand after the move, and transport the coral in a tupperware container inside a cooler with heat packs and a digital thermometer to I can keep an eye on temp while on the road (I won't be driving).


Since I'm moving and the coral's been doing pretty well as it is I haven't really been focusing on the setup as much as I have the water quality itself. For the last month and a half or so I've only had the filter and lid lights that came with the tank.
I've been stirring new water by hand (which has been fun lol) so I finally got a powerhead/pump to help with that (Marineland Maxi-Jet 400 Multi-Use Water Pump and Power Head) which I'm assuming will be too powerful to put in my little 5gal so I still need to find a wavemaker for my tank.
I'm assuming that a protein skimmer won't be necessary since I don't have any fish, but I really need to figure out what I do need–especially sump, biofilter, and lighting options.

 

In terms of algae I have a brown algae bloom right now, a teeny bit of green algae and hair algae, and I can see a bit of coralline growth.
Since I know the water flow isn't great in my tank right now I've been stirring it and manually blowing off my zoa with a turkey baster.
I've been having issues with microbubbles from my filter as well 😞 any time I have it turned up past low flow my tank gets filled with them and the only way I've been able to get rid of them is by turning the filter all the way down for a few hours... but I'm hoping I'll be able to fix that during the move.

Any advice or resources would be greatly appreciated!
I've been trying to keep things minimal for the move but since it's coming up this week I want to get serious about the setup.

 


Tests;

- Calcium
- Carbonate hardness
- Phosphate
- High-range pH
- Ammonia
- Nitrite
- Nitrate


Additives;
- API Stress Coat+ (since I had to use tap water for initial setup)
- API Marine Stress Zyme
- Seachem Prime
- Multi-purpose Bio-Support
- Calcium
- Magnesium
- Alkalinity
- Trace Elements
- 3-Ions

  • Like 2
Link to comment

I'd love to see a photo of what you have set up so far - it sounds like you're making some solid decisions about that upcoming move but know that a tank move is always stressful on livestock.  I imagine you'll be alright, but don't beat yourself up if something goes South.  

For a 5g Zoa Garden, I think you might even be overprepared at this point.  The only test kits I would regularly use are pH, Nitrate, and Phosphate.  You'd use Ammonia and Nitrite during the initial cycle or to confirm the source of an emergency but they won't be regularly needed.  In a tank that small your water changes are going to do the heavy lifting of pollution dilution and additive restoration.  I really don't think you'll need to dose, (even if you packed that little guy with stony coral.) 

I think what's important for you would be to get a consistent source of RODI water (look for a used or refurbished 4-stage and get new filters,) and quality salt.  Pick a salt and stick with it.  If you're doing the zoanthid garden thing I would personally recommend Instant Ocean.  It's going to be affordable, ubiquitous at LFS, and the industry standard for many service companies and large public aquariums.  If you want to go fancy, you can - but you don't need to.  What's important here (this is going to be a theme) is consistency.

With regular diligent water changes your tank will have all the trace and major elements it needs to thrive.   With a low bioload, this will be a sufficient form of nutrient export, too.  You might want water polishing, but the zoanthids won't care.  The only parameter that the water changes won't help with is your Salinity.  Salt swings can be deadly in a nano.  The low volume means they happen swiftly and dramatically.  Invest in a low-tech but reliable ATO system with at least one backup function.

What other equipment should you invest in?  If this was my tank or you were my client I would tell you to place your budget primarily in your water and salt mixing station.  The easier you make your water changes the more likely you are to do them regularly.  That consistency will be the key to your success.  I'd spend the remaining equipment budget on your light and a small filter of choice.  A zoanthid garden doesn't need more than gentle flow - something that could be provided by a small internal filter, hang on back (aquaclear syle,) or small canister. The latter two will give you some additional water volume for comfort, too.  All of those will allow you to polish your water or add a small amount of media if needed.  Which filter are you currently using?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
7 hours ago, lefnui said:

I managed to rush the set up and the zoa acclimated pretty dang quick in a tank that wasn't cycled and it's been doing surprisingly well! Even grew a second polyp!

Corals produce less ammonia, while being more tolerant to it than fish.

 

7 hours ago, lefnui said:

I'm also moving this Saturday so I'm busy preparing for that! My plan is to do a water change tomorrow (Tuesday), secure the coral frag to a live rock with reef glue and epoxy (I've had it resting on a rock in a place where it fits nicely), prep more water for a change after the move, bring the current tank water in jugs, replace the sand after the move, and transport the coral in a tupperware container inside a cooler with heat packs and a digital thermometer to I can keep an eye on temp while on the road (I won't be driving).

I doubt that a water change is needed.  In fact, zoanthids benefit from nutrients in the water.  I'd shoot for nitrate at detectable levels and phosphate of at least 0.05 ppm.  Try to keep phosphate under 0.20 ppm and nitrate under 20 ppm.

 

At this time of year, I'd be more concerned about over heating than the water getting too cool.  But the cooler is probably a good idea, as it will help prevent more sudden temperature swings.

 

7 hours ago, lefnui said:

I finally got a powerhead/pump to help with that (Marineland Maxi-Jet 400 Multi-Use Water Pump and Power Head) which I'm assuming will be too powerful to put in my little 5gal so I still need to find a wavemaker for my tank.

The filter itself is likely providing enough flow for the bacteria and coral to survive for now.  For a five gallon zoanthid centric tank, I'd probably be shooting for a total flow rate between 100 and 150 gph.  Sometimes, a filter provides enough flow (although you probably don't need to use any filter media at all).  I've also used fountain pumps to provide flow in some of my smaller setups.

 

7 hours ago, lefnui said:

For the last month and a half or so I've only had the filter and lid lights that came with the tank.

I wonder about that light.  Most zoanthids are pretty forgiving and don't require intense light.  However they are photosynthetic, and would likely benefit from a relatively inexpensive reef light.

 

7 hours ago, lefnui said:

I really need to figure out what I do need–especially sump, biofilter, and lighting options.

You don't need a sump or biofilter.  The sand and rock will be your bank's biological filter.  Any number of reef lights should be fine.  I'd consider this a minimum:

https://www.amazon.com/KINGBO-Aquarium-Lighting-Spectrum-Saltwater/dp/B01M0PF72P/

 

7 hours ago, lefnui said:

In terms of algae I have a brown algae bloom right now, a teeny bit of green algae and hair algae, and I can see a bit of coralline growth.

You'll want a few herbivorous snails to help keep algae under control.  Hopefully the brown algae is just diatoms.

 

7 hours ago, lefnui said:

I've been having issues with microbubbles from my filter as well

Hmm...  Try removing the media.  You really only need the flow.

 

7 hours ago, lefnui said:

Tests... Additives

You can play around with those test kits, but all you really need is a nitrate and low range phosphate kit.  Note that API's phosphate kit is a high range kit, and you need a low range kit.

 

Zoanthids need nutrients and light.  You shouldn't need additional supplements.  You might eventually find (through testing) that coralline algae has consumed enough alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium to dose; but that will be way down the road.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
4 hours ago, BadCrab said:

I think what's important for you would be to get a consistent source of RODI water

For a tank this small, distilled water works fine too.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Thanks! I totally get that losing livestock is about par for the course with this hobby, all things considered I kinda expect the tank to crash at some point but I figure such a small tank with such a hardy coral is a good learning ground at least if it does lol - I've been keeping a close eye on it as an indicator of the tank's health too which has been pretty helpful! (for example, I noticed its colours were faded one day which prompted me to check the cycle and find a spike in nitrites)


The tests came in sets but I'm glad to know I'm overprepared! I've been keeping a close eye on Calcium quite a bit along with pH so I know I'm dosing properly when I need to, but I've only had to do it once! I don't really dose much and when I do I always under-dose and then test/wait to see how it turns out and I've had no issues so far (I hope lol)

 

I've been using Instant Ocean Reef Salt since day 1! Honestly, I think I lucked out on that one because it was my only option but I've only seen good things about it since then.

Good call on the RO/DI, there's not many options for used/refurbished option here but I reached out to someone so hopefully that works out.

 

I think I've been pretty good with my water changes, I haven't missed any and now that I have the pump it's super easy for me with such a low volume.

I was spending my Friday nights on the couch with a glass of wine in one hand while mixing the water in a bucket beside me lol

 

Oh god salinity - when the brown algae first started to bloom I got scared that it could start to bother the zoa or get out of hand since I don't have anything remotely close to a CUC. Read somewhere that increased waterflow/oxygen was a way to counteract it so I took the lid off one night, turned the filter flow up and turned on the ceiling fan.... now I know what I've done because my SG went from 1.025 to 1.028 😬 I don't know how but my zoa didn't react at all, it's still growing well and acting the same as usual


Now I don't know if this might be considered a sin but I did a water change yesterday with the new water at 1.020 – after I remove the old water I use a small-ish container to mix portions of the new water with some of what's still in the tank and then slowly add it around the filter. Today it's down to 1.027, I'm just trying to get it back down to something manageable without stressing it out but it didn't react at all during the change so I assume I did that right.
(side note: I always use a calibrated refractometer)

 

I'll deeefinitely take your advice on an ATO after that fiasco hahaha

 

I bought the Top Fin Essential 5 Gallon Kit and I'm currently using the hanging filter that came with it. I've only had to replace the cartridge once so far but I rinse it weekly during water changes with a bit of the new water. I also just realized that filter floss is polyfill and I happen to have a bunch of it laying around for crochet, so I can always use that if needed.

 

Pictures attached!

The tank looks kinda gross right now with the diatoms but these are from about a month ago.

The second polyp has since opened up, it's about half the size of the other one now.

Tank.png

Zoa.png

  • Like 2
Link to comment

@seabass thanks for all the advice, I've been doing just that with the nitrite and phosphates

I've been using distilled water since the initial setup and it actually gets a good amount of natural sunlight from my window in the morning too, but a decent light is definitely on my list

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Yank the plastic plants- they'll just be space for pest algae to grow where snails can't easily clean. More rock would also be a good idea, as that's more space for biofilter, although it's not required.

 

Salinity goes up as water evaporates, because the salt can't evaporate along with the water. That's why we top off with RODI, not with salty water.

 

Algae is inevitable. It's also not inherently bad- part of having a mature tank is having a healthy coat of non-pest algae on all your rocks. Once you start seeing brown and/or green algae growing consistently, add a snail or two to eat it. You're going to have an ugly stage as pest algae takes advantage of the free space, and particularly of the fact that you have a white light made for planted tanks at most (but really just to illuminate fish), to grow everywhere it can. That's not a bad thing, as a healthy zoa will keep algae off itself just fine. Keep nutrients reasonable, stock an appropriate cleanup crew, and the pest algae will fade out in favor of well-behaved non-pest algae.

 

Nitrites are functionally nontoxic in the reef environment.

 

Something you may want to invest in is an Inkbird controller. You stick the temperature probe in your tank, set the controller to a couple degrees higher than your ideal temperature (i.e. 80f, since 78f is good), and plug the heater into the controller. If your heater fails on and starts heating the tank too much, the controller will shut it off. Mandatory safety equipment for reefs, IMO- a heater failing on can nuke the place. They're also not terribly expensive- $20-$30.

 

A tip: don't do water changes unless you have to. If you don't need to remove excess nutrients or organics, need to replace trace elements, or need to clear out some sort of contaminant, don't do a water change. You'll just lower your nutrients and bother your corals.

 

As to nutrients, you absolutely want a minimum of 0.03ppm phosphate and 5ppm nitrate. Probably higher, given that this is a new tank and you're trying to grow soft corals. Since you have no fish to help increase those nutrients, you'll have to be extra careful not to let them get too low. You might like to get a scarlet reef, zebra, or blue leg hermit crab, which, though you'll have to anchor frags to stop the hermits knocking them over (particularly the scarlet reefs, which like to flip things), will help increase nutrients and will be fun to watch. Feed it every couple days, or daily until algae grows in, and bam- nutrient factory, and one appropriate for this space. Though ideally this space + more rock.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

@Tired Great advice - I got rid of the plastic plants a couple of weeks ago when I noticed a bit of algae starting on the pink one and I've been liking the deep-ocean-floor look when the lights are off so more live rock sounds cool anyway! (Is it normal for live rock to only be sold in boxes of like, 10+ pieces??)

I'll get on the proper top offs though.

 

WTF how have I not seen those Inkbird controllers before - thanks for the introduction lol I'll be taking one of those

 

A hermit crab sounds like a good idea actually. I'm anchoring the frag later this week, just waiting for epoxy to arrive since I'll probably keep the whole frag in tact.

There's a good amount of green/purple algae on the plastic part of it along with some spirorbid worm hitchhikers that I kinda love, so def worth the litter-esque vibes imo

  • Like 1
Link to comment

People generally need live rock for a larger tank than this, so, yeah, it is often sold in bulk. If you've got a local fish store, particularly a non-chain one, they may have suitable dry rock.

 

(Unless it's got bacteria and general life on it, it's not live rock, it's dry rock that can turn into live rock.)

 

I don't know why the Inkbirds aren't more common. IMO they're pretty much mandatory equipment- I've seen so many heater disasters go by me on various forums, often resulting in hundreds of dollars worth of loss, not to mention the poor animals.

 

You can chop the stem off the ceramic frag plug, leaving just the disc, to preserve most of the algae and get a slightly better look. Sticking the cut-off stem behind a rock will let everything spread from there.

 

You may want to look into better lighting. The stock light that comes with the tank is generally not enough to keep a reef happy, and particularly not to get the really nice colors.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
4 hours ago, Tired said:

(Unless it's got bacteria and general life on it, it's not live rock, it's dry rock that can turn into live rock.)

ahhh I see! I mean, my rock was sold as live rock but it was defo dry in the box lol

 

4 hours ago, Tired said:

You can chop the stem off the ceramic frag plug, leaving just the disc, to preserve most of the algae and get a slightly better look. Sticking the cut-off stem behind a rock will let everything spread from there.

I was going to do that but there are some spirorbid worms on the stem that I don't want to move or hurt in the process
and ngl.. I like the way it looks like old junk on the sea floor lol

I also found a dorvilleidae hiding amongst the algae on the stem earlier today - getting more and more nervous about taking it out of the water to secure it tomorrow 😬

 

4 hours ago, Tired said:

You may want to look into better lighting. The stock light that comes with the tank is generally not enough to keep a reef happy, and particularly not to get the really nice colors.

Yeah for sure, I'm still looking at my options since I have a bit of time before the move but I can tell the colours will be much better when I get the proper lighting set up

Something weird is that it looks like its mouth is almost... retracted? sunken? My guess would be that, what with the shiddy light and awkward frag angle, it has to extend quite a bit to catch the light and maybe it's just trying to maximize height and surface area, so the mouth isn't extended like it usually would be? I can't find anything like it when I search online though...

 

Here's a pic from this morning to give you an idea. Looked normal for the first week or so

ScreenShot2023-05-31at4_47_39PM.thumb.png.70f118cf0c3b02db5c98e2498beb255b.png

 

Link to comment
On 5/29/2023 at 6:09 PM, lefnui said:

I've wanted to get into coral for a long time–soooo while in a manic state last month I decided to order a Buttmuncher Zoa polyp (singular lol) without doing nearly enough research or having a tank set up. I did enough to know about the coral itself–that I was getting a beginner-friendly one and all its ideal parameters etc.

The coral arrived before I even had a tank to set up so I ran to my lps and got a 5g tank that came with as much as possible along with heaters, thermometers, live rock, aragonite sand, water test kits, and some additives (see lists at the end). I managed to rush the set up and the zoa acclimated pretty dang quick in a tank that wasn't cycled and it's been doing surprisingly well! Even grew a second polyp!

 

Glad it's worked out so far, but definitely put things on pause so you can go on a research binge that will match your enthusiasm for getting started!  🙂 

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:09 PM, lefnui said:



I'm in the middle of reading through The Nano-Reef Handbook and I'm definitely starting to get a good handle on the water chemistry, but I'm really struggling with the gear side of things.

The gear side is the easy part IMO – so you're in good shape!

 

KISS theory is your friend.   "Keep It Simple, Simon!"   Folks often fill in the word for the second "S" more creatively. 😉 

 

Keep your setup and approach simple.  Let the gear you add be for a purpose.  Extra gear is not required.  By definition, right?  😉 

 

Traditionally, the core setup is tank, lights, flow, protein skimmer and live rock.  Variations are made as-needed from there.  (again, no variations are possible but not required)

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:09 PM, lefnui said:

I don't have any fish in my tank and I don't plan to, I'm only really interested in corals and I'd like to have a mini zoa garden eventually, but I obviously still have a lot of work to do.

I started with the same focus....really didn't add fish to my setup until I had the wherewithal (years down the road) to upgrade to a 6ft tank a couple years ago.

 

LOVE corals.

 

Best advice I can give you is to avoid "beginner corals".   Figure out what you really like, and go for that.  (Maybe that will actually be beginner corals, but I doubt it.)

 

"Beginner corals" are often invasive to the "nicer" corals you'll want later, causing large amounts of regret.   Guess how I know? 😉 

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:09 PM, lefnui said:

I'm also moving this Saturday so I'm busy preparing for that! My plan is to do a water change tomorrow (Tuesday), secure the coral frag to a live rock with reef glue and epoxy (I've had it resting on a rock in a place where it fits nicely), prep more water for a change after the move, bring the current tank water in jugs, replace the sand after the move, and transport the coral in a tupperware container inside a cooler with heat packs and a digital thermometer to I can keep an eye on temp while on the road (I won't be driving).

Try to save and re-use all your water.  Have extra (new) water around "just in case".

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:09 PM, lefnui said:

Since I'm moving and the coral's been doing pretty well as it is I haven't really been focusing on the setup as much as I have the water quality itself. For the last month and a half or so I've only had the filter and lid lights that came with the tank.

Even if corals grow under it they will never look great.

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:09 PM, lefnui said:

I've been stirring new water by hand (which has been fun lol) so I finally got a powerhead/pump to help with that (Marineland Maxi-Jet 400 Multi-Use Water Pump and Power Head)

Might be surprising, but mixing water by hand works WAY better than a pump in almost all configurations you could imagine.

 

If you want to keep your hand dry, use a mixing paddle like I do.  (I even do this for 50 gallon batches.). I bought mine (us plastics) but you can probably DIY one!

 

This is definitely the best way to mix saltwater IMO:

 

If you MUST use a pump for mixing (why?) then watch my vids and do it the way shown for the best results:

 

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:09 PM, lefnui said:

I'm assuming will be too powerful to put in my little 5gal so I still need to find a wavemaker for my tank.

You do need SOME form of water movement.  👍

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:09 PM, lefnui said:

I'm assuming that a protein skimmer won't be necessary since I don't have any fish, but I really need to figure out what I do need–especially sump, biofilter, and lighting options.

Protein skimmer is only "recommended" on a tank that small, and could even serve as a flow source.

 

Your live rock is your bio-filter AND refugium.

 

Check your LFS for lighting.  Also check around to see what others here are using for similar sized tanks.  LOTS of options out there including DIY.

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:09 PM, lefnui said:

In terms of algae I have a brown algae bloom right now, a teeny bit of green algae and hair algae, and I can see a bit of coralline growth.
Since I know the water flow isn't great in my tank right now I've been stirring it and manually blowing off my zoa with a turkey baster.

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:09 PM, lefnui said:

I've been having issues with microbubbles from my filter as well 😞 any time I have it turned up past low flow my tank gets filled with them and the only way I've been able to get rid of them is by turning the filter all the way down for a few hours... but I'm hoping I'll be able to fix that during the move.

None of your critters are bothered by bubbles.

 

Corals depend on flow to breathe though!

 

"Micro bubbles" sounds like a term you may have bumped into online.  Without pointing any fingers, beware of taking folks online too seriously in the worry department.  (Things are pretty good on this site, but "online" more generally you need to be pretty conscientious in your consumption habits.)  There is plenty to be legitimately concerned about...you don't need that.  👍

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:09 PM, lefnui said:


Any advice or resources would be greatly appreciated!

The book you have is good, but check out this thread for more suggestions.  (Good to remember that a nano tank isn't all that unique....it's STILL a reef tank, so all books apply.)

 

Martin Moe's book usually tops my list of suggestions, but I also don't limit my reading resources.....I have LOTS of books.

 

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:09 PM, lefnui said:

I've been trying to keep things minimal for the move but since it's coming up this week I want to get serious about the setup.

Tests;

- Calcium
- Carbonate hardness
- Phosphate
- High-range pH
- Ammonia
- Nitrite
- Nitrate

That's VERY complete.  Good for starting out, but you probably won't replace all of them when they begin to expire.

 

Ca, alkalinity and Magnesium will be necessary if you keep stony corals.

 

If your tank has issues with nutrients you may need NO3 and PO4 kits....I and my SPS system have survived well without them for the most part though.  I use them when I'm curious about something – not regularly.

 

pH is not useful in general....if you test it, make sure you read up on "not chasing pH" first.  Alkalinity is the test that's important....pH is derivative of alk and varies systematically.

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:09 PM, lefnui said:

Additives;
- API Stress Coat+ (since I had to use tap water for initial setup)
- API Marine Stress Zyme
- Seachem Prime
- Multi-purpose Bio-Support
- Calcium
- Magnesium
- Alkalinity
- Trace Elements
- 3-Ions

Now that the tank is set up, more than likely you won't need any of those, at least not for a while.  Some not at all.  For example, cal, alk and mg are for tanks growing stony corals.  If you do water changes, you won't need trace elements.  (Almost nobody doses trace elements directly.)  I'm not sure what that last one is.

 

20 hours ago, lefnui said:

Thanks! I totally get that losing livestock is about par for the course with this hobby, all things considered I kinda expect the tank to crash at some point but I figure such a small tank with such a hardy coral is a good learning ground at least if it does lol - I've been keeping a close eye on it as an indicator of the tank's health too which has been pretty helpful! (for example, I noticed its colours were faded one day which prompted me to check the cycle and find a spike in nitrites)

Eek.  No!!

 

I don't want to put too much weight on your golf analogy, but...


Losing livestock is not PAR for the course.  

 

Losing livestock is like losing your clubs in the pond after you drunkenly crash your golf cart into it.  

 

Maybe it happens, but not to most people, and not if you're careful.  Leave room

 

Losing livestock is almost always completely avoidable.  Most livestock that's lost is lost due to mistakes that are made.  Some mistakes are EASY to avoid, others take work....but none are a foregone conclusion.  

 

(Most of the trouble folks have revolves around fish anyway....so worry not!!)

 

 

20 hours ago, lefnui said:

The tests came in sets but I'm glad to know I'm overprepared! I've been keeping a close eye on Calcium quite a bit along with pH so I know I'm dosing properly when I need to, but I've only had to do it once! I don't really dose much and when I do I always under-dose and then test/wait to see how it turns out and I've had no issues so far (I hope lol)

Calcium doesn't change much, even in a tank with stony coral growing.

 

Test alkalinity instead.  There are already processes in your tank placing a demand in it AND there is a much smaller supply of it in the water, so changes will be easier to see on a test.

 

Be wary of dosing Ca or Mg at this point.  There shouldn't be any reason for it (yet).

 

20 hours ago, lefnui said:

I've been using Instant Ocean Reef Salt since day 1! Honestly, I think I lucked out on that one because it was my only option but I've only seen good things about it since then.

Good call on the RO/DI, there's not many options for used/refurbished option here but I reached out to someone so hopefully that works out.

They are a bit expensive up-front, but as long as you stay in the hobby long enough it will pay for itself.  (think: 5¢ a gallon vs 99¢ a gallon)  👍

 

20 hours ago, lefnui said:

I think I've been pretty good with my water changes, I haven't missed any and now that I have the pump it's super easy for me with such a low volume.

I was spending my Friday nights on the couch with a glass of wine in one hand while mixing the water in a bucket beside me lol

Just to add on to other comments, let your nutrient and alkalinity tests be your guide as to whether a water change is required.  Sometimes doing a water change is a really good thing, but not always.  

 

Alk and nutrients both have minimum levels you'll want to maintain.  Unlike alk, which is supplemented by water changes, nutrients are removed by water changes.  It's possible to remove too much.

 

20 hours ago, lefnui said:

Oh god salinity - when the brown algae first started to bloom I got scared that it could start to bother the zoa or get out of hand since I don't have anything remotely close to a CUC. Read somewhere that increased waterflow/oxygen was a way to counteract it so I took the lid off one night, turned the filter flow up and turned on the ceiling fan.... now I know what I've done because my SG went from 1.025 to 1.028 😬 I don't know how but my zoa didn't react at all, it's still growing well and acting the same as usual

I've seen side effects from 1.030 s.g. so you were close but not quite IN the danger zone I guess.

 

20 hours ago, lefnui said:

Now I don't know if this might be considered a sin but I did a water change yesterday with the new water at 1.020 – after I remove the old water I use a small-ish container to mix portions of the new water with some of what's still in the tank and then slowly add it around the filter. Today it's down to 1.027, I'm just trying to get it back down to something manageable without stressing it out but it didn't react at all during the change so I assume I did that right.
(side note: I always use a calibrated refractometer)

That's how you adjust salinity!  🙂

 

Here are some calculators that will help you do that more accurately in the future!  🙂 

 

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/ – click on "Salinity"

 

20 hours ago, lefnui said:

I'll deeefinitely take your advice on an ATO after that fiasco hahaha

ATO is how you avoid needing to do salinity corrections all the time.  🙂 

 

16 hours ago, lefnui said:

(Is it normal for live rock to only be sold in boxes of like, 10+ pieces??)

Maybe shop around some more?

 

A good LFS sells actual live rock and will sell as much or little as you want.   Rocks.  Little frag bits.  Sand.  10 pounds.  1 pound.  Whatever.

 

Speaking as someone in the hobby since the 90's, selling dead rock (by the boxful and otherwise) is mostly a recent thing.  In general I'd recommend newbs avoid dead rock altogether, but the ship has pretty much sailed on that...most folks are quite literally scared of live rock, let alone do they have appreciation for it.  🤷‍♂️ But if you can find it for sale, I'd highty recommend it vs dead rock.  (Ordering online is an option.)

 

Many benefits....more reef critters than you can get any other way not being the least of them!  🙂   You'll decide how to handle it once you see it....depends on what condition it's in.   Fresh live rock that's never been exposed to air can pretty much go straight into your tank for the observation phase, without worry about ammonia spikes.  Sometimes live rock has has LOTS of exposure to air and needs curing time in its own tank due to a predictable ammonia spike created by die off on/inside the rock.  But again you have to use your judgement when you see what kind of rock is actually available.

 

Just a thought!

Link to comment
10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Glad it's worked out so far, but definitely put things on pause so you can go on a research binge that will match your enthusiasm for getting started!  🙂 

Ohhoho yeah– that's the plan! I'm honestly more interested in studying corals than anything else. I really wanted to study marine biology but ended up in data science, so for me it's always gonna be about the learning more than anything else.
 

This is what I'm currently reading alongside the Handbook (I have both on apple books)

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

The gear side is the easy part IMO – so you're in good shape!

I sure hope so LOL

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Best advice I can give you is to avoid "beginner corals".   Figure out what you really like, and go for that.  (Maybe that will actually be beginner corals, but I doubt it.)

 

"Beginner corals" are often invasive to the "nicer" corals you'll want later, causing large amounts of regret.   Guess how I know? 😉 

Yeah I read quite a bit about coral warfare and decided to pick something and just stick to it.

I have no desire to add anything other than some janitorial staff until I know everything's happy & healthy, and honestly, the more I think about it the less I want a garden.

I started with the intent to focus on this colony and this colony alone, so I only really want to add something if it's to benefit the coral.

 

Ooooooh man speaking of which, I found out about blue polyps yesterday and I can't stop thinking about them... Obviously it's not something I would ever put in my tank but it seriously got me thinking about a pico down the line for a blue-polyp-bouquet of sorts

 

I really don't like undomesticated animals in captivity though, so I'm not much of a collector. 

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Might be surprising, but mixing water by hand works WAY better than a pump in almost all configurations you could imagine.

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

If you MUST use a pump for mixing (why?) then watch my vids and do it the way shown for the best results:

Carpal tunnel 🙃

I was always ending up with undissolved salt until I tried the pump, made my last change sooo much easier for me

I'll still check out those vids though! 👍 whatever's best for the buttmuncher

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

You do need SOME form of water movement.

 

Protein skimmer is only "recommended" on a tank that small, and could even serve as a flow source.

Honestly I don't really have much space for much of a setup, I've found a few options for wave makers– I just need time to go through everything and pick the right one

The hang on filter is my flow source right now, but I get in there with a turkey baster every couple of days just to disperse the flow a bit.

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Check your LFS for lighting.  Also check around to see what others here are using for similar sized tanks.  LOTS of options out there including DIY.

Not many good places around my area and I don't drive so my options are a bit limited. I'm moving to a more central area soon though so that's part of my plan!

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

None of your critters are bothered by bubbles.

 

Corals depend on flow to breathe though!

 

"Micro bubbles" sounds like a term you may have bumped into online.  Without pointing any fingers, beware of taking folks online too seriously in the worry department.  (Things are pretty good on this site, but "online" more generally you need to be pretty conscientious in your consumption habits.)  There is plenty to be legitimately concerned about...you don't need that.  👍

I actually just thought those words were the best way to describe what I was seeing when I was looking for answers, but I did notice little bubbles getting caught under the zoa's tentacles a few times and it was really lowering visibility, but I restarted the filter and it's not as bad! I know flow is important though. 

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

The book you have is good, but check out this thread for more suggestions.  (Good to remember that a nano tank isn't all that unique....it's STILL a reef tank, so all books apply.)

 

Martin Moe's book usually tops my list of suggestions, but I also don't limit my reading resources.....I have LOTS of books.

Thanks, I'll check it out!! More resources are always welcome 😁

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

That's VERY complete.  Good for starting out, but you probably won't replace all of them when they begin to expire.

 

Ca, alkalinity and Magnesium will be necessary if you keep stony corals.

 

If your tank has issues with nutrients you may need NO3 and PO4 kits....I and my SPS system have survived well without them for the most part though.  I use them when I'm curious about something – not regularly.

 

pH is not useful in general....if you test it, make sure you read up on "not chasing pH" first.  Alkalinity is the test that's important....pH is derivative of alk and varies systematically.

 

Now that the tank is set up, more than likely you won't need any of those, at least not for a while.  Some not at all.  For example, cal, alk and mg are for tanks growing stony corals.  If you do water changes, you won't need trace elements.  (Almost nobody doses trace elements directly.)  I'm not sure what that last one is.

Interesting, I worry a lot so I tend to over prepare in general.. I haven't used the trace elements and I always test before and after adding anything, but I haven't dosed/added anything since initial setup. I did dose Ca, mg, Alk the day I set it up but the Ca & pH tests were looking good after so idk but it worked out lol

the 3-Ions I don't even know - I think its for something about iodine but I'm not using it (obviously don't wanna touch that in a 5g lol), I just tossed it in my cart as a just in case. 

I basically just grabbed 1 of everything I could at the time 🤪

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Eek.  No!!

 

I don't want to put too much weight on your golf analogy, but...


Losing livestock is not PAR for the course.  

 

Losing livestock is like losing your clubs in the pond after you drunkenly crash your golf cart into it.

Hm, yeah, it just seemed inevitable to me that I'd make some type of mistake that would crash the tank at some point..

I always expect the worst but try for the best!

 

Your analogy makes me feel a lot more confident though, and from what I've experienced so far it definitely makes more sense lol

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Just to add on to other comments, let your nutrient and alkalinity tests be your guide as to whether a water change is required.  Sometimes doing a water change is a really good thing, but not always.  

 

Alk and nutrients both have minimum levels you'll want to maintain.  Unlike alk, which is supplemented by water changes, nutrients are removed by water changes.  It's possible to remove too much.

Yeah, I did a couple of early water changes when the diatoms first started showing up on the glass... defff made some not-ideal choices because of some panic-queries lol

 

I mix Oyster Feast with a bit of tank water in a turkey baster to feed every could of days, but I realized last night that I'm definitely giving too much at once considering I really only have the two polyps, some spirorbids, and a couple of dorveilleidae (at least that I know of...). I'm testing tonight so I'll see where my nutrients are at, but I'm a bit worried that I've just feeding the diatoms this whole time lol

 

I only use ~ .1mL of Oyster Feast at a time anyway but I think I need to at least start doing it more gradually throughout the day

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

I've seen side effects from 1.030 s.g. so you were close but not quite IN the danger zone I guess.

Ohh man I saw 1.030 one morning 😬 luckily it was from the case bumping the calibration knob and it was still at 1.028, but boy I was FREAKED to say the least

 

Glad to know what I'm doing now LOL ty, I'll def be using that calculator you linked. ATO is top of list fasho

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

A good LFS sells actual live rock and will sell as much or little as you want.   Rocks.  Little frag bits.  Sand.  10 pounds.  1 pound.  Whatever.

 

(Ordering online is an option.)

OOO– I was going to wait for the next expo here in a couple of months to see if they have any live rock I could pick from but I'm glad to know ordering is an option!!


Honestly at this point I'd even just do an empty tank of rocks to watch without having to worry about livestock.

I only just spotted the first dorvilleidae yesterday so I spent a good 20 mins this morning watching a couple of them explore and munch algae (the tank's on my nightstand lol)

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Many benefits....more reef critters than you can get any other way not being the least of them!  🙂   You'll decide how to handle it once you see it....depends on what condition it's in.   Fresh live rock that's never been exposed to air can pretty much go straight into your tank for the observation phase, without worry about ammonia spikes.  Sometimes live rock has has LOTS of exposure to air and needs curing time in its own tank due to a predictable ammonia spike created by die off on/inside the rock.  But again you have to use your judgement when you see what kind of rock is actually available.

 

Just a thought!

Noted, but now all I want to do is look at live rock lol

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
7 hours ago, lefnui said:

Ohhoho yeah– that's the plan! I'm honestly more interested in studying corals than anything else. I really wanted to study marine biology but ended up in data science, so for me it's always gonna be about the learning more than anything else.
 

This is what I'm currently reading alongside the Handbook (I have both on apple books)

Nice!   There's tons of great research out there.

 

I predict you'll like my blog where I've been saving my favorites.  Check out the Coral section if you want a place to start other than the top.  🙂  https://reefsuccess.com

 

7 hours ago, lefnui said:

I was always ending up with undissolved salt until I tried the pump, made my last change sooo much easier for me

 

I'll still check out those vids though! 👍 whatever's best for the buttmuncher

You can see how the salt clears up in the vid...only takes about 5 min.....so in case I'm doing something different than you in the vid that might help.  Maybe?

 

7 hours ago, lefnui said:

The hang on filter is my flow source right now, but I get in there with a turkey baster every couple of days just to disperse the flow a bit.

They usually provide pretty good flow as long as it isn't tiny compared to the tank.

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment

Ah, yeah, those zoas aren't super fond of the lighting situation. It'd help to attach the plug so that the top is facing upward, but that sort of light is barely meant for plants, let alone corals.

 

As to non-domesticated animals in captivity, that's a little different for a number of aquatic creatures. We're not trying to keep them loose in our homes, after all, like a fox someone's keeping like a cat- we've essentially put them in zoo exhibits. Proper zoo exhibits, not sad roadside attraction cages. If you take, say, a small perching goby, and you put it in a nice box, it's perfectly happy to live there. Certainly much less stressed than it is in the wild, with disease and predators and competition for food.

You might like to look into trimma gobies. They can be gotten captive-bred, and they'll stay in about a shoebox-sized space anyway, regardless of how much room is provided, because all they want is to sit.

 

Tampa Bay Saltwater sells shipped-to-your-door packages with just a little ocean-collected rock and sand, which would be perfect for this tank and should come with minimal if any die-off. I'd suggest getting a light upgrade before that, though.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
29 minutes ago, Tired said:

Ah, yeah, those zoas aren't super fond of the lighting situation. It'd help to attach the plug so that the top is facing upward, but that sort of light is barely meant for plants, let alone corals.

oh I know, I’m looking for better placement right now

29 minutes ago, Tired said:

 

As to non-domesticated animals in captivity, that's a little different for a number of aquatic creatures. We're not trying to keep them loose in our homes, after all, like a fox someone's keeping like a cat- we've essentially put them in zoo exhibits. Proper zoo exhibits, not sad roadside attraction cages. If you take, say, a small perching goby, and you put it in a nice box, it's perfectly happy to live there. Certainly much less stressed than it is in the wild, with disease and predators and competition for food.

You might like to look into trimma gobies. They can be gotten captive-bred, and they'll stay in about a shoebox-sized space anyway, regardless of how much room is provided, because all they want is to sit.

yeah I totally get that, I don’t have any issues with other people doing it properly but the idea that someone had to take an animal out of its natural habitat at some point for me to have one in captivity makes me feel icky. Just the fact that the need to preserve aquatic/marine life exists upsets me.
Even with the very few little critters in my tank I can’t help but think “these belong in the ocean but they’re sitting in a box on my nightstand” – which IS pretty ####en cool, but also pretty sad.

 

Treating animals like commodities also makes me feel icky. I’ve seen so many creatures that seem absolutely priceless but when I go to learn more about them I see them being sold for like $10 and that shit makes my stomach drop… just seems unfathomable to put a price tag on them

 

All that being said I absolutely love this hobby and community, I’m definitely here to stay!!

I have nothing against the people buying/trading livestock, I just don’t personally enjoy the concept of it so I try not to be an active participant (for the most part lol)

 

I love seeing all the different animals and tanks people have though, little pieces of alien worlds. And seeing all the mystery creatures that get traded around people’s tanks ???? ####in wild. I could spent forever on pest/disease id forums 🤤

 

29 minutes ago, Tired said:

Tampa Bay Saltwater sells shipped-to-your-door packages with just a little ocean-collected rock and sand, which would be perfect for this tank and should come with minimal if any die-off. I'd suggest getting a light upgrade before that, though.

I live in Canada and I’m pretty sure trying to import that would be difficult to say the least… I was looking for ocean-sourced live rock options last night and it did not look promising

 

I did find a place that looks promising for some decent cured live rock though. It’s a short walk from where I’m moving tomorrow so I’m checking it out this weekend and grabbing a decent light and ATO while I’m there if I can.

Link to comment

I mean, if the little fish understood what was happening, I guarantee they'd be delighted that they were taken out of the ocean to live in a nice safe box where their children and their children's children will be intentionally perpetuated into other safe environments. It's kinda like winning the domestication lottery and becoming, say, the orchid that humans propagate and bring everywhere, except they haven't quite gotten to actually being domesticated yet.

Heck- if you ever upgrade a little larger, guppies are domesticated, and can be acclimated to saltwater. ~10gal tank works great for them.

 

That said, you're not unreasonable in feeling how you feel, and there are certainly plenty of non-brain-having animals to stock your tank with. Corals have won the lottery even more- they don't have brains to be stressed with, so there's no welfare concerns with putting them in even a tiny box. They then have to be fragged to stop them growing into and murdering each other, so either someone buys those frags, or they get chucked in the trash. May as well trade 'em among each other. Hobbyist buys are also the best place to get good deals on corals, as a bonus.

 

Ah, yeah, Canada makes that trickier. Good luck!

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Ya idk im a spaz lol

 

On 6/2/2023 at 6:16 PM, Tired said:

Ah, yeah, Canada makes that trickier. Good luck!

Ty I may need it

I do have some leads but who knows lol

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recommended Discussions

×
×
  • Create New...