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Dark & Indirect Light Reef Tank Setup:


Johnny Max

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Johnny Max

I am about to set up a new 20 long Nano Reef Tank.

 

I have been studying many recommendations to starting a reef tank in a way to avoid the UGLY STAGE.

Here is my Hybrid plan based on several methods.

 

I was given a bunch of old dried live rock rubble. Tomorrow I will be receiving a bottle of Heavy Gel CA Glue and accelerator.

I plan to glue the rubble together to make a rock structure. I hope...

I was contemplating curing the rock in the dark, but I want to speed it up just a little.

So, here is my plan to get my reef up and going, but still doing it with controlled light.

I am listing all the products I have decided on in my plan. Note: cost was a big consideration. I added the price for reference.

 

Dark & Indirect Light Reef Tank Setup:

 

1. Tank Setup:

  • Substrate & Rock: Begin by adding a suitable substrate and live rock to provide a natural habitat for the marine life in your tank. I will be adding non-live aragonite sand substrate and old dead live rock. There is dried organic matter on the rock so it is going to be important to limit light to inhibit the chances of uglies from using the organic matter and causing an unwanted algae bloom.
  • Heat Tank: Maintain the water temperature at 78 degrees Fahrenheit (25.5 degrees Celsius), which is within the optimal range for many reef organisms.
  • Water Flow: Install a powerhead or appropriate water circulation system to ensure proper water movement and oxygenation within the tank. I have an old 350 GPH powerhead.
  • Fishless Cycle Nutrients: Add a product like Brightwell's Microbacter QuickCycl to provide the necessary nutrients for the development of beneficial bacteria during fishless cycling. $2.95
  • Nitrifying Bacteria: Introduce nitrifying bacteria, such as MicroBacter7, to facilitate the establishment of a stable biological filtration system. $6.45
  • No light on Tank: Initially, cover the tank to prevent any direct, or indirect light exposure during the cycling phase, as this helps control nuisance algae growth.

 

2. Uncover Tank:

  • After the cycling phase is complete, uncover the tank to allow indirect, low light to reach the tank. If required, you can block some light using materials like window films or aquarium covers to achieve the desired lighting conditions.

 

3. Nuisance Algae Mitigating Bacteria:

  • To minimize the growth of nuisance algae, I will be using Brightwell's MicroBacter Clean, a product designed to help control and prevent unwanted algae outbreaks. Add this bacteria as per the manufacturer's instructions. $9.30

 

4. Water Change:

  • Allow the bacteria to settle and establish themselves for approximately one week. Afterward, perform an 80% water change to remove any excess nutrients or unwanted substances that might have accumulated during the cycling process.

 

5. Adding Marine Life:

  • Seed with Coralline: Introduce coralline algae, with Purple Helix Coralline Algae in a bottle, or similar product. This will help promote the growth of beneficial coralline algae throughout the tank. $22.00
  • Add Copepods: Introduce copepods, such as Tisbe and Tigriopus copepods, which serve as a natural food source for various marine organisms and contribute to the overall biodiversity of the tank. If well established they can prevent many algae outbreaks. $24.99± eBay
  • Add Invertebrates: Introduce invertebrates like snails, hermit crabs, and other small crustaceans that aid in maintaining the ecological balance within the tank. Exact inverts to be determined.
  • Feed Copepods & Invertebrates: Provide a suitable food source for copepods and invertebrates, I plan to use freeze-dried rotifer powder, to ensure their proper nutrition and survival. I need to maintain and build the copepod population. $7.22

 

6. Light Adjustment:

  • After approximately two months put a Reef Tank Light on the tank. Begin slowly increasing the light intensity in your tank over a period of a week or more. Monitor the tank closely for any signs of excessive algae growth. If needed, adjust the light intensity or duration to prevent algae outbreaks. Finding the right balance is crucial for the health of your reef tank.

 

7. Adding Coral:

  • Once the light intensity is sufficient and the tank parameters are stable, you can start introducing corals. Begin with hardy and beginner-friendly species before gradually incorporating more delicate and demanding corals into the tank.

 

This is my first draft of my intentions with this tank. Please realize, I am still in the Noob Stage as a Reefer...

Community input normally cause me to adjust my plans.

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In general I like it.

 

It does have one "#####" in that it still appears to cause-and-take-for-granted the ammonia spike at the beginning of the process.

 

You can decide not to do that. 😉

 

In general, it's adding the fish too soon that creates the problematic ammonia spike.  But anything that requires daily feeding will have to be added with mindfulness not to overwhelm the system's current balance too much.  One thing that means is the longer you wait to add those things (ie fish) the most resilient your tank will have become to that change.   

 

A simple change or two (eg take your time with stocking in general; stock fish last and not all at once), and you can avoid the spike altogether and just grow the system to maturity at its own pace.  If you can imagine it this far, you can imagine how it also simplifies the rest of your plan as well. 

 

In terms of additives, the bacteria are going to be there with or without your help.....so focus on everything else.  Add 'pods, 'worms, mysids, coralline algae, any micro-inverts, etc that you can find which might also be found on live rock.

 

Buying some live rock might be cheaper in the end.  A Tampa Bay Saltwater 10 Gallon Package is only $160+shipping and is WAY more complete than what you could duplicate by adding pods and stuff.  ARC reef and KP aquatics and others might also have good options.

 

 

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Johnny Max
3 hours ago, mcarroll said:

In general I like it.

clip<<.... Buying some live rock might be cheaper in the end.  A Tampa Bay Saltwater 10 Gallon Package is only $160+shipping and is WAY more complete than what you could duplicate by adding pods and stuff.  ARC reef and KP aquatics and others might also have good options.

My current 20 tall was done with live reef rock from a friend. It was like instant established tank. I felt like I cheated, LOL

The motivation behind this tank is the rock formation made from a bunch of old cool reef rubble that was given to me by a local well know reefer from the area.

I really need to take and post some pictures. It is some old school cool coral and rock you can't get anymore.

 

As far as fish, I am thinking the process I listed above will take 2, 3, or more months and there will be no fish in the tank until the end.

 

I will test and control the ammonia I add so i can control any spikes.

I really want to try Brightwell Aquatics, Microbacter QuickCycl. It is an ammonia product. Here is what they say about their product:

 

Microbacter QuickCycl
Professional nutrients for fishless cycling and establishing strong nitrifying bacteria beds in freshwater and marine aquariums.

    Not your average ammonia source for starting the nitrogen cycle. Brightwell Aquatics MicroBacter QuickCycl contains the right strength of ammonium chloride along with balanced phosphates and nitrates to feed the bacteria that work to cycle a tank. This product will provide the food source required for the bacteria to properly cycle the aquarium.

 

I have decided to seed the tank with specific bacteria as I outlined above. I have been looking into a new school of thought as promoted by BRS's videos. You do not have to have all the different bacteria you have in a wild reef, but you do need balance.

I am wanting to give this a try. To strike a balanced tank with selected bacteria I seed it with. Then, of course whatever hitchhikes in over time will be met by an established system. I hope my established system will slow any quick radical changes and any new microbes will have to compete and develop a balance in my system...

 

Talking about microbe diversity by the seat of your pants!

I have a Galveston Biotope going and It surprised me. I mean I threw all kinds of stuff in that 50g corner tank. Major attempt to learn!

 

I dug up about 10 lbs. of live sand from inside the Galveston Jetty. I dug down about 6 to 8 inches and collected the sand. It was dark grey.

I put that layer in the bottom of the tank and covered with clean white sand.

For quite a while, I thought I made a grave mistake, because the sand on the bottom started turning black. I wish I would have taken pictures. You could see it through the glass. The black grew and got thicker, and thicker. It got within almost a 1/4" of the surface. It was very dark blackish sand with a thin layer of white sand over it.

I was shocked at what happened over time. The black sand started to clear up. Now it all looks like clean sand with no dark color. I did not think that was possible!

I believe that is a good way to go, like you suggesting go with live rock. Or, in the case of my Galveston Biotope, live sand.

 

Live Rock note: The tank I started with live rock now has aptasia and some type of tube worms. I am trying to keep it under control with Bumble Bee Snails. Not working so far!

 

The corals and inverts I bring in to this new tank will be treated and quarantined, but some stuff will get through I am sure. This is a learning process for me. Not sure what the results will be, but I will live it and earn any lessons learned.

 

I am going to experiment with using hydrogen peroxide along with iodine to treat incoming coral.

I have dosed an entire freshwater planted tank with hydrogen peroxide twice (While everyone was screaming DON'T DO IT!). It worked, lost no fish, or plants and killed a major black algae problem. It was crazy what I did, I poured in a whole big bottle of it in and put extra powerheads in the tank on high! I left the hydrogen Peroxide in for 20 minutes, then did a 90% water change. Did it again a week later.

Coral farms use hydrogen peroxide a lot. This will be another learning experiment.

 

Thanks for such a good reply!

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Johnny Max

Here are a few pictures of the old reef rubble. If the thick CA glue and activator come in tomorrow, I will try to build a rock structure.

That is step one. :biggrin:

 

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One man's trash is another man's reef.. 

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I have been thinking of trying assembling rubble for a structure, since you can get really granular about how it should look. but for me I keep putting it off since the bonding materials get kinda expensive in bulk haha. have fun and good luck though!

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Johnny Max
17 minutes ago, sapling said:

I have been thinking of trying assembling rubble for a structure, since you can get really granular about how it should look. but for me I keep putting it off since the bonding materials get kinda expensive in bulk haha. have fun and good luck though!

Last time I tried connecting rock with epoxy putty it was an utter failure!

I am trying it again, but with CA Glue. Impatience is normally my downfall.

I need to exercise patience when I try this time. :haha: I have some white mortar I got from Lowes I can add to joints if need be, but that will add to the cure time and cause more water changes.

You said expensive. I got 50 lbs. of white mortar for like $7 and the CA glue and activator was $21 together.

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Johnny Max

I am concerned that the white mortar (if used to strengthen joints) will stand out, because it will be white, on dark old rock.

I assume that over time it will get covered with coralline. But how long will that take? Years?

I wonder if I were to mix coffee, or tea with the mortar instead of pure water..... LOL, "Way outside of the box thinking!"

I do have some instant tea and coffee somewhere...

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banasophia

Well, first of all, is that mortar itself reef safe? If you can’t confirm that, I wouldn’t use it.
 

And as far as adding those other things, very creative, but no I would not do that. Reef tanks are so sensitive so I just wouldn’t risk using any materials out of the ordinary like that. Lots of people do use rocks attached together like you will be doing though, so I think you should be able to find some examples to see how it looks and how to camouflage the joints like pressing some sand into it or additional rocks on the front side covering up the joints, or getting colored epoxy that matches your rock better than the white will.
 

 

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Johnny Max
3 hours ago, banasophia said:

Well, first of all, is that mortar itself reef safe? If you can’t confirm that, I wouldn’t use it.
 

And as far as adding those other things, very creative, but no I would not do that. Reef tanks are so sensitive so I just wouldn’t risk using any materials out of the ordinary like that. Lots of people do use rocks attached together like you will be doing though, so I think you should be able to find some examples to see how it looks and how to camouflage the joints like pressing some sand into it or additional rocks on the front side covering up the joints, or getting colored epoxy that matches your rock better than the white will.
 

 

You made me think! I have epoxy resin (if I can find it) I could mix in some hardener and quickly mix in aragonite sand and use that in the joints after the CA glue dries. :naughtydance:

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22 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

I have decided to seed the tank with specific bacteria as I outlined above. I have been looking into a new school of thought as promoted by BRS's videos. You do not have to have all the different bacteria you have in a wild reef, but you do need balance.

I am wanting to give this a try. To strike a balanced tank with selected bacteria I seed it with. Then, of course whatever hitchhikes in over time will be met by an established system. I hope my established system will slow any quick radical changes and any new microbes will have to compete and develop a balance in my system...

This is a good, traditional way to start a fish-only tank.

 

But for a reef tank it's a non-diverse, mono-crop.  Mono crops are unstable by nature and require lots of support from you.

 

image.png.3a8362936cd97426fb64a921b17215ad.png

vs

image.png.b7056f24333f12f2b911ca53b1e601e0.png

 

Bottled bacteria might get you a few species.

 

Maybe even 1 or 2 more than what you'd have just from handling the rock with bare hands and innoculating it that way.  (Not like it's really sterile to begin with...no inoculation is actually required.   Innoculating is related to you/us causing that unnecessary ammonia spike.)

 

For comparison, a chunk of live rock would have species numbering in the hundreds or thousands.

 

And bacteria, as a group, would be only one out of DOZENS of categories of life.

 

Diversity creates stability.  

 

But there's no diversity when all you have is bacteria...or any one group of critters.

 

22 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

Live Rock note: The tank I started with live rock now has aptasia and some type of tube worms. I am trying to keep it under control with Bumble Bee Snails. Not working so far!

👍

 

Worth noting that those tube worms (vermitid snails?) are adding to the resilience and stability of that tank.  🙂

 

I think you may have to reconsider what "control" means for something like this in the context of a healthy, diverse reef tank.  

 

We like to "control" green algae because its dominance is incompatible with coral dominance.  This is true in the wild just like it is in our tanks.  And most of us are into this for the coral dominance.  So the mission is clear – like it or not, we're the #1 member of the cleanup crew.  😁

 

I don't think our "control" mission with tube worms (or other critters) is nearly so clear.  Tube worms are literally part of the reef.  They are literally one of the reef builders along with our stony corals – not even "just" a critter that lives there.

 

There's nothing wrong with keeping them from taking over (or at least trying).  But unlike the case with green algae, tube worms have no compatibility issues with corals.  Quite the opposite.

 

BTW, if they're still noticeably spreading, maybe add another bumble bee or two?

 

23 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

The corals and inverts I bring in to this new tank will be treated and quarantined, but some stuff will get through I am sure. This is a learning process for me. Not sure what the results will be, but I will live it and earn any lessons learned.

 

I am going to experiment with using hydrogen peroxide along with iodine to treat incoming coral.

Sounds like "planning for the worst".  

 

Planning is one thing.  But if possible, change your approach to avoid the necessity of that.

 

Your odds of success are MUCH higher if you can buy heathy stock from trusted sources.  (Which may take some work.)   Pay more, wait longer for what you want, and/or settle for a more limited selection if you have to.  

 

Of course if you have no LFS, then rolling the dice may be your only option.  Plan for the worst in this case.  😬

 

On 5/23/2023 at 2:14 PM, Johnny Max said:

Coral farms use hydrogen peroxide a lot. This will be another learning experiment.

LOTS of folks have used peroxide, so while I wouldn't discourage experimentation, I would encourage checking out where others have already shown successes and failures with it.

 

In a nutshell, it works well in a lab setting.  (A coral dip is a similar environment to a lab setting.  Almost sterile; no established lifeforms.  If the timeframe is short you can probably get away with much higher/more effective peroxide concentrations in a dip.)

 

Peroxide does not work well (or at all in most instances) in a reef tank.  

 

High-concentration spot-treatments for algae are probably the most rational in-tank use for it, but results can still be unpredictable.  (@Llorgon did we talk about trying this for any of those hard-to-reach spots?)

 

The reason peroxide isn't more ideal than it is for "pest control" is that mostly-all of our "target organisms" are aware of hydrogen peroxide – and have capacity for converting it quickly and efficiently to non-toxic byproducts thanks to peroxidase.  Established algae (vs new growth) are particularly resistant due to this.

 

18 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

Last time I tried connecting rock with epoxy putty it was an utter failure!

It's strong like steel, but not always very adhesive (depending on brand/make)....especially if you didn't pre-clean and dry the surfaces being bonded.

 

18 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

I am trying it again, but with CA Glue. Impatience is normally my downfall.

Superglue is adhesive AF, but not very strong, definitely not structural.   I wouldn't use it to defy gravity....just stick pieces together that are going to be supported from the bottom in some way.

 

6 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

I wonder if I were to mix coffee, or tea with the mortar instead of pure water..... LOL, "Way outside of the box thinking!"

Mix-ins are a well-known part of the process when anyone wants to customize.  Likewise for cement/mortar.  Mixing in sand, salt and other things.    <-- really what you want; not the CA glue, tho it'll prolly work for a lot of what you're gonna try.  

 

I've never used it exactly like you're planning to, but IME superglue's adhesion doesn't last in saltwater.  For most purposes that it gets used for it lasts PLENTY long enough.  But for live rock, you're pretty much gonna want it to last permanently.  IMO CA glue isn't that.

 

Check out:

The author of the first article likes to add lots of odd things in his rock....like PVC pipe for structure.  You might find more of interest if you google his older posts.

 

There's lots of room for creativity, but you don't have to guess at very much on the adhesive part thanks to the popularity of the topic.  Marco Rocks will even sell you a pre-colored mortar if you wanted to take the easy route on that and you don't mind spending a little more.  (You can get white or grey mortar even at the hardware store tho.  $8)

 

No issues with reef-safeness for mortar or concrete that you aren't already aware of....just don't use anything fancy (sometimes called "fortified"), since that always means additives.  You just want plain mortar or cement. (I think most folks use cement.  Check out cement.org to see the types of plain cement explained really well.)

 

 

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Johnny Max

I started gluing some rocks together. I tried to plan out what I wanted, but I had to just resort to finding rocks that would lock together. I did what I saw on a BRS video. I misted the rock with water, patted with a paper towel, sprayed lightly with activator squeezed on CA glue, put the rocks together and sprayed lightly wirh activator again. After a few seconds it held.

Then I rolled it around and every place the rocks contacted or almost contacted, I sprayed with activator and squeezes in glue. The glue wicked into cracks and made a solid connection. I was surprised. I added and built up glue inside the connections.

All was going well until I got a glob of super glue on the hair on the top of my leg above the knee. It is still there agitating me!

I will take it up tomorrow. Switching gears. A 3D Printer came in today. I need to get it out of the box.

Here are my pictures and they "Rock!" :naughtydance:

 

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banasophia
3 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

Here are my pictures and they "Rock!" :naughtydance:


image.gif.28b0bab57298e6c5c689463ac0afaaba.gif

 

loving it so far… would you mind posting the brs video, I’d love to see it! I’ve used the superglue/epoxy/superglue method before, but never an activator like you’re using. 

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Johnny Max

The activator makes it so easy. And FAST! I bought it together from Amazon.

 

In the video he also used mortar. I may not now. But, I did picked up a trick I am going to use. He glued pieces of rock to brace joints. I am going to try a version of that.

I plan to fill joints with crumbled pieces of rock mixed with glue and use it as mortar.

Also, I think I can break up some rock and build more shapes and features to give it character.

We shall see. I don't want it to be too gaudy. :blink:

 

I appreciate the effort and time BRS has put into producing educational videos so much, that I have decided to use them to buy stuff first.

 

Here is the video link:

How to NSA Aquascape: A step by step negative space guide for your reef tank - Marco Reef Saver Rock

 

BSATV.thumb.JPG.cf7660bee2bbe62f1ec935744d2df9f3.JPG

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5 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

The activator makes it so easy. And FAST! I bought it together from Amazon.

Is the activator actually water, or seawater, by any chance?  Both are natural activators (seawater is more effective)....but wondering if what you're using is supposed to do anything more than speed curing?

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Johnny Max
53 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Is the activator actually water, or seawater, by any chance?  Both are natural activators (seawater is more effective)....but wondering if what you're using is supposed to do anything more than speed curing?

It smells like acetone...

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Hm.

 

Acetone is a good degreaser.  It's a good CA solvent.  It probably auto-dries the bonding surfaces as it evaporates.  

 

A couple of those would be beneficial qualities when using CA.  The solvent aspect might clean away "bloom" that forms making things look nicer.

 

I wonder what they really mean by "accelerator"?  

 

CA literally uses moisture from the air to cure...so it's not a curing agent per se.  At least the acetone part isn't.  (Is there an "active" ingredient listed by any chance?)

 

🤔

 

Some good info here, but doesn't exactly answer the question:

https://www.gluegun.com/blogs/news/most-common-questions-answers-cyanoacrylate-adhesives#:~:text=Unlike some adhesives that cure,relative humidity in the atmosphere.

 

Loctite sells a specialty product for bonding plastics with superglue that comes with an "activator" that's apparently heptane.  They claim this is only needed for plastics though.  Same as "accelerator"?  🤷‍♂️

 

https://dm.henkel-dam.com/is/content/henkel/TDS-681925-US-Loctite-Plastics-Bonding-System-Carded-4-ml-2-g-2016-08-26pdf

 

Interestingly, to speed superglue curing in cleanup situations they recommend using water.

 

The process they describe for using is sounds similar to how you're using the accelerator.

 

Seems like if you weren't worried about grease/oil/wax contamination, then a spray bottle of water would be all you'd need to make it cure faster.

 

I still think I'm missing something.  

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Johnny Max

I have used CA glue a lot to finish turned wooden pens on the lathe, and this excellerator is nothing like misting with water. Not sure what it does, but the glue sets in seconds. Here is what I am using. Sure enough, it says acetone. 

 

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Johnny Max

Well, the basic rock structures are done. I want to take a hammer and make some smaller pieces of rubble to camouflage the straight lines on the cut rock. It will look just a little more natural.

I made two separate rock structures. I will make two more small low profile rock structures that will be islands in the sand.

Not perfect, but it was made from another reefers trash,,,

I need to make a stand for this tank so I can set it up.

 

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No doubt....the smell is usually enough of a clue – it's very distinct! 😉

 

This seems to suggest the acetone might act (in part) as a carrier for the actual accellerator.... 

https://www.hotmelt.com/blogs/blog/everything-you-need-to-know-about-super-glue-accelerators#:~:text=How Does the Super Glue,firmly on the intended surface.

 

...and a little more digging..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluidine

 

Huh.  Still no idea why that works...but there's the magic ingredient.  🤔😋

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banasophia
15 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

The activator makes it so easy. And FAST! I bought it together from Amazon.

Reef safe? 
 

 

 

The rockscape looks amazing - totally love it!

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Johnny Max

It was recommended in a video by BRS. It leaves no residue. 

I posted my picture on our local reef society facebook. As was mentioned here earlier. They said they did the same thing and after 3 years it started breaking. So I may have to mortar the connections. Or, at least do something to make them stronger. They recommended drill and wire. I think it is too late for that.

Suggestions are welcome. 

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banasophia
3 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

It was recommended in a video by BRS. It leaves no residue. 

I posted my picture on our local reef society facebook. As was mentioned here earlier. They said they did the same thing and after 3 years it started breaking. So I may have to mortar the connections. Or, at least do something to make them stronger. They recommended drill and wire. I think it is too late for that.

Suggestions are welcome. 


Shoot… well maybe you should add epoxy then. They do have several different colors you can choose from. Not sure what the third one was I used here, it came in a tube and I ordered it from a random fish supply store online as I recall.  


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