Do you need water flow in a 2G Xenia tank?

[Johnny Max]

I am contemplating a 2G Pico Reef Tank, with just Pulsing Xenia. It will sit on my desk at work if I do it.

I have the round glass tank already. It is currently freshwater planted and sitting on my desk.

I am thinking about getting a small 4" preset heater and bury it in the substrate.

Then put a tall narrow white rock in the center.

I plan to attach Pulsing Xenia at the base. (They tend to grow up, I think)

I am trying to figure out how to move the water.

I can use air, but I really don't want to bubble air through it. Salt Creep on my desk.

 

Thoughts? Should I even attempt it?

[Tired]

Worth a shot. A teeny fountain pump is probably the best plan- I don't know whether the xenia alone will move the water around enough to get oxygen and nutrients to itself. Probably not, particularly when it's a small frag. 

[BadCrab]

Would a Sicce MiMouse be too big to hide in the tank? I think if you were creative with it you could hide it well, and it's a Sicce so you know it will last.  The pump is about 2.5x1.5x1.75 and has an adjustable flow rate.  Should be under $20 online.

[Tired]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SKJGNX3

These are adjustable, and are 1.5" x 1.5" x 1". Longevity's a bit iffy, but you can't beat that price, and they've got a surprising bit of oomph. I've gotten a few of them for various temporary setups. 

[mcarroll]

Running any kind of filter ought to be enough, if you have plans in that direction.   Sicce, Tetra, Danner, Fluval and others all have decent internal filters.   HOB's give great flow if the look could work somehow.  Internal will be easier to deal with looks-wise I think.

 

The Supreme/Danner "EZ Clean" model is somewhat interesting in that it's a corner design, and has a top port for use during water changes:

https://dannermfg.com/collections/filters-skimmers/products/supreme-ez-clean-single-internal-filter

 

Possibly still a little big for 2G though.

 

Their old Ovation internal filter with a spray bar is dirt-cheap at $16:

If needed, you can always cut flow intensity by making more holes in the spray bar, or making a longer one.....or both.

 

I think I'd lay the filter across the bottom with the spray bar oriented vertically.  Also experiment!  🙂 

 

Eheim's "skim350" is interesting since it draws water from the surface, keeping that oil slick from forming....you will have to DIY something for the outlet....not too hard, but something to consider.

 

 

TONS of other options out there tho.....

[Tired]

I didn't even think about that. Good idea. Heck, maybe just go to the local pet shop and look around, see if any small filter catches your eye.

[Johnny Max]

On 5/7/2023 at 8:20 PM, mcarroll said:

Running any kind of filter ought to be enough, if you have plans in that direction.   Sicce, Tetra, Danner, Fluval and others all have decent internal filters.   HOB's give great flow if the look could work somehow.  Internal will be easier to deal with looks-wise I think.

......

TONS of other options out there tho.....

 

On 5/6/2023 at 11:24 PM, BadCrab said:

Would a Sicce MiMouse be too big to hide in the tank? I think if you were creative with it you could hide it well, and it's a Sicce so you know it will last.  The pump is about 2.5x1.5x1.75 and has an adjustable flow rate.  Should be under $20 online.

 

On 5/7/2023 at 8:45 AM, Tired said:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SKJGNX3

These are adjustable, and are 1.5" x 1.5" x 1". Longevity's a bit iffy, but you can't beat that price, and they've got a surprising bit of oomph. I've gotten a few of them for various temporary setups. 

Great ideas!

I measured the vase and it is smaller than I thought.

6" diameter and 9" tall. One gallon total.

I have a pump similar to the MiMouse. Still in the box, but not sure how long it will last.

Knowing me, it was the cheapest one on Amazon.

I like the in-tank canisters, but I did not realize how little space inside the vase.

I could get a plastic coffee container and pipe a sump out of sight behind it.

Now it is getting complicated. Not sure how good a syphon would work.

If it clogged over the weekend I would come back with saltwater all over!

Work would not be happy if they found it first.

 

Here is a picture I took of the vase this morning. I can imagine it full of pulsing Xenias!

 

[Johnny Max]

I measured a folgers coffee container. It is 9" tall. I wonder if I could heat and bend 1/2" or smaller PVC pipe into a "U" shape for a siphon to connect the coffee container (sump) to the vase (pico reef tank) as a return line. Then put the small MiMouse in the sump with a return line to the pico reef tank. I would have to figure out how to direct the flow in the vase and secure it. I have everything already. I can take two coffee containers and set up a test system. I need to see if I can bend PVC without it collapsing.

What would I put in the sump, just bio media?

I have never had a sump before.

I could paint the sump black.

 

[mcarroll]

40 minutes ago, Johnny Max said:

I wonder if I could heat and bend 1/2" or smaller PVC pipe into a "U" shape for a siphon to connect the coffee container (sump) to the vase (pico reef tank) as a return line.

Probably....filling it with sand or a close-fit spring is supposed to help.

 

But would spending the $0.67/ea on a pair of 90º elbows to form the U would be easier?  I mean you're already in the plumbing aisle to get the pipe... 😉

 

 

[Tired]

Alternately, do what I did for my pico, and get- whoops, apparently they've discontinued the model I bought, but here's the one they replaced it with. 

https://www.amazon.com/Finnex-PX-150-Compact-Aquarium-Canister/ (new version)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002VFF8U4 (old version for reference)

 

Empty out the media (which would just collect gunk), and you essentially have a tiny sump that won't leak or overflow. Adds a little water volume, lets you put the pump outside the tank. 

[Johnny Max]

7 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Probably....filling it with sand or a close-fit spring is supposed to help.

 

But would spending the $0.67/ea on a pair of 90º elbows to form the U would be easier?  I mean you're already in the plumbing aisle to get the pipe... 😉

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Tired said:

Alternately, do what I did for my pico, and get- whoops, apparently they've discontinued the model I bought, but here's the one they replaced it with. 

https://www.amazon.com/Finnex-PX-150-Compact-Aquarium-Canister/ (new version)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002VFF8U4 (old version for reference)

 

Empty out the media (which would just collect gunk), and you essentially have a tiny sump that won't leak or overflow. Adds a little water volume, lets you put the pump outside the tank. 

The sealed canister would be the way to go. I was hoping to do the DIY thing and keep a tight budget. After all the tank was about $5 at WallyMart.

The sealed canister would be the right way to do it.

Contemplating options.

I want to build the rock from croshed oyster shell and white mortar, so with the cure time it will be a slow project.

As far as bending the PVC, putting something in it is an awesome idea.

What about using clear, rigid tubing.

That would look good!

[Tired]

The main issue with clear tubing is that it can allow algae growth inside. Then again, you're going to get sponge growth either way. 

 

A DIY situation should work out fine. Although it would be funny to have a filter that cost several times as much as the tank. 

[Johnny Max]

I have devised my planned build.

 

Equipment:

1. I will use a small MiMouse size submersible pump. (I already have one)

2. Constant Temperature 25W Heater ($11 Amazon)

3. Plastic valve 1/2” (To adjust flow, $3.50 Amazon)

4. Clear Rigid tubing 1/2" (heated and bent to shape, $6 Amazon)

 

Tank:

1. Glass cylindrical vase 6” dia. 9” tall (One gallon, $5 Walmart)

 

Hardscape:

1. Crushed oyster shell (Tractor Supply, I have it for my chickens)

2. White mortar (Home Depot, I have some already)

3. Rock Salt (This will create voids in the rock to support more bacteria)

 

Substrate:

1. White Aragonite (I have some already)

 

Marine Life:

1. Pulsing Xenia (I can frag some I have)

2. Snails (Not sure what type will be best, researching)

3. Red Macro Algae (I have some I can frag)

4. And if others suggest more they may be added.

 

The Build:

1. I will put the pump, piping and heater in a fish bag and pad it with a little poly fill to add extra space around it.

2. I will place it in the back of the tank upright and in its final location.

3. I will mix up crushed oyster shell, mortar and rock salt.

4. I will build the rock structure in the tank and around the equipment sealed in the bag.

5. To make small branches on the rock structure I will add crushed oyster shell with no mortar added. It will support and structural shape I want to build on the rock-scape. When finished, the tank should be basically full.

6. Let cure then remove, separate from supporting crushed oyster shell and wash.

7. I will set the tank up and cure the rock in the running system for a few weeks with regular freshwater changes.

8. After that I will add salt water, bacteria and coralline and run for a couple of month minimum.

9. While the rock is curing for several months I will be gathering and growing out frags and finalizing what marine life to add.

 

I am posting it here for input.

Once I tweak and finalize the plan, I will start a build thread.

[Tired]

I don't have enough experience to weigh in on the build, but in terms of livestock, dwarf cerith snails and maybe a virgin nerite or two would be good. Maybe a few of those periwinkles ReefCleaners sells, if you order from there.

[mcarroll]

5 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

 

The sealed canister would be the way to go. I was hoping to do the DIY thing and keep a tight budget. After all the tank was about $5 at WallyMart.

The sealed canister would be the right way to do it.

Contemplating options.

Nothing wrong with a canister, but FYI there's nothing wrong per se with a tiny gravity-fed sump either.  Neither is without risk tho.  

 

Keeping the water IN the tank is the best (only?) risk-free way.

 

5 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

I want to build the rock from croshed oyster shell and white mortar, so with the cure time it will be a slow project.

Never done it, but lots of folks have.  Do what you can in the process to minimize that cure time....don't do things that may extend it.  Check out GARF and/or Paul B's posts on it (also in his book) if you want a good starting point.

 

5 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

As far as bending the PVC, putting something in it is an awesome idea.

What about using clear, rigid tubing.

That would look good!

If you're talking about clear PVC tubing, then it should be the same (I think).

 

But if you're talking about thin-walled clear plastic tubing like what you'd find in an under gravel filter, then I dunno...you'll have to test it or google to see if anyone bends it like that.  It's VERY thin and brittle to begin with.

 

Why not a pair of 90º fittings?  Bending is great if you're making a bunch and can avoid making 98 glue joints to connect elbow fittings....but if you're just making one, you're only saving maybe a $1.50 on parts, so it's really just more bother.

 

BTW, if you're definitely doing a DIY...

 

You should model your overall design after a good overflow box, like the Lifereef or Pro Clear.  Model all of the weirs into your design since they are what keep the siphon stable.   I see LOTS of pictures online of DIY PVC overflows that I wouldn't trust.  Don't hinge your design on an external mechanism to remove air from the siphon.  Good overflows do this automatically by being sized correctly for the flow they carry....that way the flow carries bubbles right through the siphon vs letting them collect at the top.  (Don't forget to generally prevent bubbles in the display tank too...this is often how air gets into the siphon in the first place.)

 

Another one:

 

You'll want to be pretty close to hitting 50% of the "gravity" numbers for your plumbing size....keeps noise low but flow maximized.  More flow is possible (up to the rated GPH), but makes more noise.  Better off upsizing the plumbing if you want more flow.....stick with the 50% metric.

[Tired]

Oh, one thought; would it potentially speed up the curing time if you stuck the hardscape in a larger bin of water? I don't know much about curing that sort of cement, but if frequent water changes are helpful, does it then follow that a larger water volume is helpful as well? Pop it in a rubbermaid tub or some such.