Making Live Rock

[Johnny Max]

At lunch today I picked up 100 lbs white mortar & 100 lbs crushed oyster shell/conch shell/coral from tractor supply. I am going to go ahead and build my live rock for my 50g corner tank. I thought the tank was only 30g, that's why I joined "Nano-Reef" Oh well, I'm here now.  

Anyone make their own live rock. I hope I can have it cure in 3 months. Because that is when it is going in the tank, if not sooner. 

I am seeeding up the tank and buying microbes as I have no other skate tank to harvest then from.

Since I am doing a Galveston Island Biotope, I thought about seeding it from beach and.  Would that work?

My first tank inhabitants with just be smails.

Anyway,  I hope so do some tests making live rock this weekend. With 100 lbs of crushed shell, I have plenty to Make the form out of and to make the rock with. I chose white mortar instead of cement, because ChatGTP said it will raise the pH less.

[mcarroll]

7 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

I thought the tank was only 30g, that's why I joined "Nano-Reef" Oh well, I'm here now.  

That's how the Large Reef Discussion section was born! 😉   (I don't actually know that....but hey, there it is!)

 

And really, you can think of a 50 Gallon as a really big nano.  Still can't house any bigger critters tho....so "nano".  

 

Luxury nano!   🙂 

 

7 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

I am seeeding up the tank and buying microbes

Seems redundant if you are going to harvest wild.   You'll have all the inoculation you can carry.  Plus it will be perfectly complete instead of a near mono-crop as in bottled bacteria – 1 small jar of collected water (plenty of sediment, please!  some sand would be OK too!) is all it would really take to make a HUGE difference.  The more the better tho, from the tank's point of view.   Filtering the macro-particles out is fine if you want.  The first addition to the tank you could add "raw" including "all the bits" and then run a filter (like this is ideal) on the tank for a few weeks before moving on to stock more things.  You can use the same filter on future water collections BEFORE adding them to the tank if you want.  You can always use something less aggressive to filter the water from your collection if you wanted to add critters such as amphipods.

 

8 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

Since I am doing a Galveston Island Biotope, I thought about seeding it from beach and.  Would that work?

Exactly!  Yes!!  🙂 

 

8 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

I am going to go ahead and build my live rock for my 50g corner tank.

GARF and Paul_B (in his book: "Avante Guard Marine Aquarist" and elsewhere online) have been the main go-to sources for live rock making, but LOTS of folks have done it and posted about it.  From reading, your time frame is probably manageable.  

 

Chemically, calcite (most of your material) is close enough to aragonite that it'll serve most purposes.  (ie binding site for phosphate, etc)  Not sure about the porosity though – doubt it's like live rock since it's so hard.  Live rock is relatively soft – lots of "air space" (water space) inside.  This porosity is where live rock's "advanced" physical properties come from....it facilitates lots of tiny cavities for bacteria, in an almost infinitely tiny range of sizes for maximum effect.  (eg denitrification and related processes)  You've got some "coral" in the mix, but it may or may not be very porous depending on what they mean by the term.  Mined coral material could be more non-porous like limestone than coral, for example.  And it sounds like it's no more than 1/3 of the mix....maybe less?  Still sounds like a good project to me – see how it turns out!!

 

8 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

ChatGTP

I think that's a "brand" of bot software.   

 

I'd be wary of taking reefing advice from a chat bot. 😉   Hey!   You aren't a chat bot, are you??

 

But seriously, no variety should alter your pH at all if it's properly cured.

 

As for cement vs mortar....

 

 

So technically, I think you're using cement to create your own concrete....with shell and coral as your "filler" in place of "sand & gravel".  

 

Notably, concrete is the most flexible of the three for molding.

 

Substituting mortar for cement is just "diluting" the cement with sand....not one of your chosen ingredients....and apparently isn't as good for making molds. 

 

I dunno if there's any more to the recommendation for mortar, but IMO cement+your mix is a better approach.  You can always add some coral sand if you want something closer to a mortar.

 

Worth reading a little of the history on Paul_B's tank if you haven't already:  

• Paul Baldassano’s Reef - 40 Years in the Making
• Build your own rock for practically free
• DIY Rock for the Marine Aquarium

I'll let you dig up more if you're interested!   😄 

 

There's more interesting (basic) info on the cement/concrete/mortar topic at cement.org's FAQ.  For example...

 

Quote

• What are recommended mix proportions for good concrete?

  Good concrete can be obtained by using a wide variety of mix proportions if proper mix design procedures are used. A good general rule to use is the rule of 6's: 

  • A minimum cement content of six bags per cubic yard of concrete, 

  • A maximum water content of 6 gallons per bag of cement, 

  • A curing period (keeping concrete moist) a minimum of six days, and 

  • An air content of 6 percent (if concrete will be subject to freezing and thawing). 

 

[Tired]

Stay away from ChatGTP for advice. It regurgitates information, so it may or may not be picking from good sources, and it may or may not be assembling that in a way that conveys all the important parts. Stick with actual people who have real experience, preferably in a format (like this one) where others can chime in as needed.

 

What are you planning to stock, and how much of it are you going to catch yourself? Keep an eye out for green porcelain crabs, when you go looking- they're underneath rocks in shallow water, and are some of the coolest little critters you can catch for your setup, IMO. 

[Johnny Max]

On 3/26/2023 at 8:41 PM, Tired said:

Clip...What are you planning to stock, and how much of it are you going to catch yourself? Keep an eye out for green porcelain crabs, when you go looking- they're underneath rocks in shallow water, and are some of the coolest little critters you can catch for your setup, IMO. 

I am mainly going to catch peppermint shrimp from the Galveston Jetty. I will look for green porcelain crabs. That would be a great fine. I am also going to make a box with window screen to filter the sand. I would love to find some brittle stars, or any starfish for that matter. I will look for any snails also. I need to renew my fishing license. The water at Galveston is already 86° The time is right. People catch Gobys and Sargent Major fish there. I am sure I will eventually cave in and put some in the tank, we shall see. Trying to stay invert.

[Johnny Max]

On 3/26/2023 at 8:41 PM, Tired said:

Stay away from ChatGTP for advice. It regurgitates information, so it may or may not be picking from good sources, and it may or may not be assembling that in a way that conveys all the important parts. Stick with actual people who have real experience, preferably in a format (like this one) where others can chime in as needed...Clip

I shared you comment with ChatGTP and asked for its response.

Here it is: LOL

 

"As an AI language model, my responses are based on the vast amounts of data that I have been trained on. While I strive to provide accurate and helpful information to the best of my abilities, I do not have personal experience or subjective opinions like a human expert would.

 

I am designed to provide information from a wide range of sources, including scientific studies, expert opinions, and reputable publications. However, it is ultimately up to the individual user to evaluate the information I provide and determine its relevance and accuracy to their particular situation.

I am not a substitute for seeking professional advice or consulting with experienced individuals in a particular field. Rather, I am a tool that can supplement and complement their knowledge.

 

That being said, I appreciate feedback and constructive criticism as it helps me improve and better serve my users."

[Johnny Max]

On 3/23/2023 at 10:36 PM, mcarroll said:

Clip...Seems redundant if you are going to harvest wild.   You'll have all the inoculation you can carry.  Plus it will be perfectly complete instead of a near mono-crop as in bottled bacteria – 1 small jar of collected water (plenty of sediment, please!  some sand would be OK too!) is all it would really take to make a HUGE difference.  The more the better tho, from the tank's point of view.   Filtering the macro-particles out is fine if you want.  The first addition to the tank you could add "raw" including "all the bits" and then run a filter (like this is ideal) on the tank for a few weeks before moving on to stock more things.  You can use the same filter on future water collections BEFORE adding them to the tank if you want.  You can always use something less aggressive to filter the water from your collection if you wanted to add critters such as amphipods...Clip

Thanks for setting me straight. I had already talked myself into going strictly with store bought, bacter, rock, algae, etc.

Your post was a welcomed slap to my face to help me see straight. I am back in track. 

I will seed it with water and sand and silt from the Bolivar Peninsula, east of Galveston. I will look for macro algae as well to start it up. I can get all the green hair algae I want, I mean I don't want.

Do you think there will be coraline in the water enough to seed the rock?

[Johnny Max]

Your comments have changed my plans. I will go to the beach and fill a plastic 55 gallon barrel with saltwater. An excuse to take the Camper Van! When I make the rocks I will soak them in freshwater a week and change it daily. Next, I will put it in the beach water barrel outside, so it gets some sun during the day, but not direct. I will put a few powerheads in the barrel pointing at the rock. I will add a little fish food off and on to feed the bacter. I guess a fist full of beach sand and sediment will help also. Oh, when I mix the rock, I will add a bunch of rock salt to make more cavities. Saw that online.

[Tired]

Ah, yeah, that's the legalese version of "this bot might be wrong and it's not our fault if it gives you bad advice". Now, don't get me wrong, people can give you bad advice too, but at least on a forum others can say "hey, actually that's wrong". 

 

There should be coraline spores in the water, but an ideal way to get coraline would be to grab a coraline-encrusted bit of shell. 

 

Make sure to get your water barrel in indirect sunlight and with flow as soon as it's home, to keep the life alive. Aside from that, sounds like an excellent plan, and I'm excited to see how it shapes up!

[Johnny Max]

1 minute ago, Tired said:

Clip...There should be coraline spores in the water, but an ideal way to get coraline would be to grab a coraline-encrusted bit of shell. 

This is all new to me and I was raised along the Gulf Coast all my life. At ten we lived in a house on Corpus Christy Bay, with beach next to our house. We lived in Ingleside on the Bay. Son of a shrimper. Cast net, push seine, dip net and fishing. Now I have to learn the science and the details. I never looked at a shell to see if it had coraline on it. I will now!

[mcarroll]

2 hours ago, Johnny Max said:

I never looked at a shell to see if it had coraline on it. I will now!

The closer you look, the more you see!  Gotta love it.

[Tired]

Admittedly you might have some trouble finding coraline growing really close in to shore, but it's all over the Gulf. You can even find branching coraline washed up on shore now and then if you get really lucky, and it might still be alive. 

 

Oh- you should have a lid to reduce evaporation and prevent shrimp/fish jumping out, but be extra-sure to have a lid if you get periwinkles or nerites. Both will climb above the waterline sometimes, and don't know that wandering out of the tank will get them to somewhere they can't come back from.