The great Canadian 9 gallon cube - Farewell - upgrade coming.

[Koleswrath]

Ok, time for an update.

• Nutrients are at 5-10ppm and 0.1ppm so we’re happy there.
• UV is ready to go in the tank tonight. 
• Microbacter clean is getting dosed each day about 4 hours before lights out along with the phyto I was already dosing.
• I run carbon 20 hours a day. Just remove it to dose bacteria and phyto.

The tank definitely hit the low point where the Osteorepsis and cyano are starting a fight club and not letting anyone else play.

starting to see some green algae on the glass now that nitrates are up which is progress.

 

Amazingly, one of my Astrea snails is having a Dino buffet. He’s cleaned 50% of the rock in like 3 days and is still munchin.

Hope he doesn’t get poisoned cause he’s a trooper.

 

 

Next update to come after some progress with the UV.

 

[brandon429]

Hey I really really want that correction job when you're ready. The ways you're doing won't work

 

(Killing that mass in the tank won't remove it, it translocates the dead mass into your rocks and sand, changing to gha for months shortly after)

 

This will though, quick scan just the before and after pics

 

If you like them, then study the writing for one hour. Your tank could be 99% fixed in 48 hours vs months long challenge. 

 

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/algae-identification.707457/

 

Additions to a eutrophic reef don't fix it, subtractions fix it. Things we remove fix it

[brandon429]

When you're ready to make it comply we can apply all those details here. The rtr thread saves me from having to type it all over. We can do the fine tuning here. 

 

This job was similar to yours, 24 hours from start to finish, user shadow_k

 

Before, months of struggle:

 

 

after the rip clean next day:

 

Corals fully open

No irritation

Surface area unblanketed, restored 

 

Safer for fish. 

 

[brandon429]

*some people get super angry when posting rip clean offers, no offense intended. We have ways to get you off the invasion loop rather quickly, there's the pics above, thought it would help to see how easy nanos can be brought back into compliance. 

[Koleswrath]

Wouldn’t that just get me back to where I started? What would prevent this from just happening again? 

[ml86743]

17 minutes ago, Koleswrath said:

Wouldn’t that just get me back to where I started? What would prevent this from just happening again? 

This is good question.

 

@brandon429 I've read and agree with all these rip cleans for "old tank syndrome" however, I don't know that I've seen any cases with brand new tanks.  Like kole said, wouldn't that be counterintuitive in such an immature setting?  Or is the idea you wipe out all the nuisance critters and are left with only the biological community of your LR?

 

Kole, your tank is basically a mirror image of what happened with me.  My tank looked exactly like yours right now after raising and maintaining nutrients, algae growth (good and bad) and after a a few weeks things started to even out.  The only difference I see is I never removed my carbon - and also never turned the UV off when dosing MB7😈

 

Looks like the cyano is dominating the sandbed, which in the case of dino's I would prefer.  Seems to me like you're on the right track. 

[Koleswrath]

5 minutes ago, ml86743 said:

Seems to me like you're on the right track. 

Ya, I wasn't really worried about this outbreak because of tanks like yours and many others sharing their experiences in beating it and getting on with life.

Time will tell if I'm being overly confident and I imagine I might resort to drastic measures if this persists for months but at the moment I don't think it willl.

My biggest fear is that my fish will die from the toxicity. I should really have a qt tank setup for them.

 

[ml86743]

Funny you mention that, I too was extremely worried for my fish at first but my LFS calmed down and said you really don't need to worry that much.  Just keep that carbon fresh 🙂

[brandon429]

Understandable concerns

old cycling science trained us all to fear access of substrates, and access of substrates is exactly what I'm recommending

 

Factor in other people's evaluation not from reading the thread / but from participating

 

I would never recommend any action with a hidden deficit or trick or not verified safe for 20 years

 

Here's eight years of rip cleans on one thread, 300 jobs

 

If eight pages of the best rip cleans on the planet left doubt...

 

Try and find any negatives we'd expect from fifty more pages:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/official-sand-rinse-and-tank-transfer-thread.230281/

 

There isn't a negative. The only negative is when a larger tank needs the help and they're too big to rip clean

 

Notice this detail: that's not my reef. That's 300 other people's reefs and me predicting how their tank goes after the job. I'm looking at your tank and predicting how it will go

 

 

 

What we see there is page after page after page of simply fixed tanks.

 

Prevention-

 

After the rip clean, not before it:

We verify your source water as clean

 

You consider getting UV 

 

Reducing your light levels. They're too bright. 

 

You can experiment with params or clean up crews, though i recommend you do not do that (it doesn't factor in tank fixing see above)

Cuc and parameter guessing is what the masses do, and it wrecks tanks vs fixes them. 

 

We clean up jobs that the masses try to fix using the easy mode

 

 

scroll the pages and look at pic succession no need to read all the typing. If you want after pics like I produce we can do the typing here customized to your tank 

 

There is no downside of rip cleaning a nano reef, there's only the benefit of agelessness and running exactly like you want it to

 

Downsides are made up from the sidelines. In the thick of the challenge tanks this is the method with the most correction wins we can find. 

[brandon429]

The vast majority see those pics and decide to remain completely invaded, that's no problem. The skepticism is too entrained/ understandable

 

Thought you'd want to see clean fixes, i get new jobs from the minority who want to reef vs battle cyano for months/ getting turned down is never a surprise 

 

Merely posting that pic set here will get me 2 or 3 private chat jobs eventually that I can just edit back into the thread, building out the positives 

 

 

There are readers who want off the invasion wheel: I'm fishing for those types

 

When a better way arrives nobody will do rip cleans. When that way arrives someone will link it here for reading and it'll have as many fixed tanks~

 

What worked once in someone's home reef does not work the same for others. Choose your repair approach from work threads not personal testimony in a post. Seek out what works for others/ key to the win. 

[Koleswrath]

Thanks for the info, appreciate it. Hopefully I'll be able to take care of this in a few weeks with minimal effort and a smart targeted approach as I've seen many others do. If not, maybe I'll consider a rip clean.

 

[BioReefed]

On 2/16/2023 at 3:55 PM, Koleswrath said:

drastic measures if this persists for months but at the moment I don't think it willl.

hey, I'm currently dealing with cyano in my new tank, I started 2 months ago. Everything seemed to be going well, until I started to see the cyano, I thought it was dinos at first, but luckily I was able to confirmed it is cyano.

I just wanted to see what are you doing to get rid of it and maybe we could found a solution.

From now I'm just removing it every 2 days as much as I can. I was adding microbacter7 but someone told me not to dose too much of it, so I stopped adding it. Not sure if I should keep adding it daily.

As of right now I dont have any fish and I only feed my corals once a week.

[Koleswrath]

10 minutes ago, BioReefed said:

I just wanted to see what are you doing to get rid of it and maybe we could found a solution.

From now I'm just removing it every 2 days as much as I can. I was adding microbacter7 but someone told me not to dose too much of it, so I stopped adding it. Not sure if I should keep adding it daily.

As of right now I dont have any fish and I only feed my corals once a week.

Hi, I’m not trying to get rid of the Cyano quite yet. It offers competition to the Dinoflagellates and that’s a big benefit for me right now. 
That being said both the Dino’s and Cyano are starting to recede since I started maintaining my Nitrates above 5ppm and Phosphate above 0.05.

I’m also dosing Microbacter Clean which is similar to MB7. In theory the MB Clean bacteria should be competing with the Dino and Cyano for nutrients, space and possibly trace elements. 
Here’s a recent tank shot, the rock is clearing up nicely and the Cyano isn’t coming back where I accidentally blew it off the sand.

 

 

I think if you keep up with manual removal, ensure your flow is adequate and keep as close to a 100:1 Nitrate to Phosphate ratio as possible you’ll be saying goodbye to that Cyano in no time. I’d also keep up with MB7 dosing.

 

A few additional things I’m doing to get rid of Dino’s specifically that may have a slight impact on Cyano: 

-daily phytoplankton dosing

-12hrs a day UVC at slow sterilization flow rate.

-blowing off rocks and changing filter pads daily. 
-Astrea snails. One of my pair eats Cyano off the rocks like a pig. Doesn’t touch the sand though.

Good luck, hope this helps! Final piece of advice - don’t nuke it too fast. The last thing you want is a sudden vacuum where the next best adapted organism is waiting to take its place. That could easily be dinoflagellates. 

 

[BioReefed]

15 hours ago, Koleswrath said:

I think if you keep up with manual removal, ensure your flow is adequate and keep as close to a 100:1 Nitrate to Phosphate ratio as possible you’ll be saying goodbye to that Cyano in no time. I’d also keep up with MB7 dosing.

 

Hey @Koleswrath thank you. For the N and P ratio, can you give me an idea? mines are: Nitrates 3.79 and Phosphates 0.2.  I'm also running my uv light 24/7 is that too much?

[ml86743]

I'm liking what I see! God my tank looked like such a s**t box for a while.  Keep up the good work and you'll be rewarded.

6 hours ago, BioReefed said:

Hey @Koleswrath thank you. For the N and P ratio, can you give me an idea? mines are: Nitrates 3.79 and Phosphates 0.2.  I'm also running my uv light 24/7 is that too much?

I run my UV 24/7 haven't had any issue.   

[Koleswrath]

23 hours ago, BioReefed said:

Hey @Koleswrath thank you. For the N and P ratio, can you give me an idea? mines are: Nitrates 3.79 and Phosphates 0.2.  I'm also running my uv light 24/7 is that too much?

So if your PO4 is 0.2 you’d aim your NO3 at 20ppm ideally with a 20% tolerance higher or lower. So ~15-25ppm. 

24/7 UV is fine. I turn my off so my daily bacteria and phyto additions don’t get zapped. 
 

 

[Koleswrath]

Wow, what a difference 10 days can have!!

The Ostreopsis Dinoflagellates are nearly gone and are now at a point where I don’t consider them an eyesore anymore.

The Cyano is not coming back after a good cleaning two days ago. 
The bad guys are on the run!

Quick summary of what I’ve been doing the last 10 days:

• UV from 6:30pm to 6:30am
• Changing filter fleece daily in the evening.
• Blowing rocks off at 8-10pm (twice)
• Carbon from about 6pm to 7am.
• 1ml per 7 gallons home brewed fresh live Phytoplankton at 7am daily
• 1ml per 7 gallons Microbacter clean at 7am daily
• Big dose of copepods at the beginning. 4oz to 7g tank water.
• 10% weekly water changes with water dosed with NO3 and PO4 to match tank parameters. Using Fritz RPM salt - it seems to have nothing to fuel Dino growth as I haven’t seen any surges in growth after changing water. Even a large 50% water change during a deep clean didn’t cause a resurgence.
• Testing NO3 and PO4 every day and dosing to keep levels at 0.05-1.0 P and 7-20N preferably on the high end of this range.
• I also stopped feeding mysis as I heard it may be high in Iron.

Here’s the result after 10 days:

Didn’t lose any snails, fish or corals surprisingly.

 

 

Thanks for the help everyone!

[debbeach13]

Tank looks so much better. 

[PJPS]

46 minutes ago, Koleswrath said:

Wow, what a difference 10 days can have!!

The Ostreopsis Dinoflagellates are nearly gone and are now at a point where I don’t consider them an eyesore anymore.

The Cyano is not coming back after a good cleaning two days ago. 
The bad guys are on the run!

Quick summary of what I’ve been doing the last 10 days:

• UV from 6:30pm to 6:30am
• Changing filter fleece daily in the evening.
• Blowing rocks off at 8-10pm (twice)
• Carbon from about 6pm to 7am.
• 1ml per 7 gallons home brewed fresh live Phytoplankton at 7am daily
• 1ml per 7 gallons Microbacter clean at 7am daily
• Big dose of copepods at the beginning. 4oz to 7g tank water.
• 10% weekly water changes with water dosed with NO3 and PO4 to match tank parameters. Using Fritz RPM salt - it seems to have nothing to fuel Dino growth as I haven’t seen any surges in growth after changing water. Even a large 50% water change during a deep clean didn’t cause a resurgence.
• Testing NO3 and PO4 every day and dosing to keep levels at 0.05-1.0 P and 7-20N preferably on the high end of this range.
• I also stopped feeding mysis as I heard it may be high in Iron.

Here’s the result after 10 days:

Didn’t lose any snails, fish or corals surprisingly.

 

 

Thanks for the help everyone!

Well done! 10 days is a quick one 🙂  LCA are the worst (UV doesn't help), but you took perfect action against Ostreopsis.  Everyone take note, a cheapy microscope can make all the difference in a dino fight!

[Koleswrath]

Close to the 3 month mark for this little guy and we’re doing pretty good. Still a bit of Cyano hanging on here and there but it’s no longer dominant and I’m beginning to see small spots of purple Coralline popping up on the rocks. Also seeing some green coloured film algae on the rocks now which tells me the NO3 and  PO4 levels I’ve been dosing are adequate. Still have the UV going for 12hrs at night but the dinoflagellates are almost completely gone now. Just a few strands at the base of the rocks where it’s tough to get my turkey baster now. 
I switched from Microbacter clean to Microbacter 7 a few days ago to get some different strains of bacteria introduced in case I’m missing some or the population levels are skewed towards one particular species or family.

Fish, corals and snails are all doing wonderfully despite having to live through a Dino outbreak for a couple weeks. The Monti and Seriatopora are noticeably growing, the Zoas have doubled the number of polyps and one of the candycane heads has almost split into three heads. 

Added a Bali Green Slimer! Really looking forward to that stag growth filling up the back corner of the tank.

Pics at 3 months:

 

 

I’ll get some coral macro photos posted this weekend as well. 
Take care, 

Greg

 

[Koleswrath]

 

 

Coral pics. Some oldies but goodies.

 

Montipora digitata (forest fire)

 

Acropora Yongei (Green Slimer) -just added

 

Seriatopora guttatus (Bird of paradise)

 

 

 

Blue hornet Zoanthids

[BioReefed]

On 3/4/2023 at 12:03 PM, Koleswrath said:

I switched from Microbacter clean to Microbacter 7 a few days ago to get some different strains of bacteria introduced in case I’m missing some

Tank is looking good. I'm still dealing with cyano. But I wanted to ask you about the microbacter7. I was dosing that too, but it seems to lower my nitrates and phosphate levels. I was dosing NeoNitro and NeoPhos to raise my levels that were at zero, it did the trick, constant levels for 2 weeks, but when I started adding the MB7, it brought my numbers back to 0, so I stoped  adding that.

Are you having any problems with your water parameters while using the MB7?

[Koleswrath]

13 hours ago, BioReefed said:

Are you having any problems with your water parameters while using the MB7?

Ya, I’m having to dose PO4 twice a day to keep a steady 0.06ppm. The MB7 and MB clean both seem to have a lowering effect. My NO3 seems more stable and I only need to top this up on new water during water changes.
I also culture and dose live phytoplankton which will consume some nutrients.

And to make things ultra convoluted I soaked my dry rock until it was PO4 free so it could be sinking a lot of PO4 into new CaCO3 crystal sites. 
Love this hobby! Never know what’s going on…lol.

[Koleswrath]

Quick weekend update:

On Wednesday I took the live rock out and swished it in some clean saltwater to clear out some detritus and get some remnants of Cyano off. I noticed an amazing shift in the dominant organisms in the tank.

within a day and a half I had green film algae on the glass that hadn’t grown in quite awhile and today the glass is absolutely teeming with copepods that I haven’t noticed before.

Green film now growing:

 

I saw copepods at night here and there previously but today they have bloomed.

Each white speck is a copepod- the entire surface of the glass is covered.

 

Couldn’t be happier and am just fascinated by this shift.

Love nano tanks. 

 

FTS March 11, 2023

 

[Koleswrath]

Quick update before the weekend (going skiing):

Things are looking great! Algae is growing well enough and I haven’t seen any signs of Dino in at least 4-5 days. Cyano disappeared after the final manual removal last Wednesday when I noticed some green algae starting to grow.

 

I’m taking down the UV to see if we get any regrowth. Nice to have my whole tank back!

I’m still amazed that the snails who visibly ate the “extremely toxic” Ostreopsis haven’t died. 
Corals didn’t skip a beat. Fish didn’t seem affected.

What gives?
Now as @brandon429 mentioned, I’ve got a bunch of dead mass in the tank that is fuelling algae growth I’ll need to remove. Taking the rocks out and rinsing in new SW is a good start. Lot of crap coming off. Vacuumed the sand now that I can do water changes again. Might think about a rinse if vacuuming can’t pull enough out. Doesn’t look too bad though.
All in all spirits are up and we’re looking to the future!