Squidfish66 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 I have been away from the hobby for a bit. Is anyone making diy salt? I need to make 8k gallons. I’m working with a non profit to restore the seagrass in the Indian river lagoon. We must save money to be successful. now has anyone used diamond water-softener salt ? I imagine it forms insolvable chelates. What are they and do they really cause issues? What about Red Sea salt that claimed to be dehydrated sea water? Any chemists in the house? 2 1 Quote Link to comment
NoOneLikesADryTang Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Let me start by saying, that I have no idea where to go, or what you’d need. I do think it’s pretty cool that you’re thinking outside of the box, and trying to do something that’s uncommon in this hobby. After all, pushing limits of what we know is part of the coolness of this hobby? 20 years ago, nano tanks were thought to be impossible. Now there’s tanks with less than a gallon. Ten years ago, goniopora were nearly impossible to keep. Now we know that they are not only possible, but some are having great success with them. However, you lost me at this: 50 minutes ago, Squidfish66 said: I hate to be like this but before all the normies and snobs get on here as they like to do on this subject they know nothing about, let me preface this so us freethinkers can get to work. You did, exactly what you’re complaining about. This comment was incredibly rude, and has a great sense of arrogance. I truly hope you get some answers that help you, but when you set a tone like this, it will turn a lot of people that may be willing to help, off. 2 Quote Link to comment
jservedio Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Ignoring your crazy diatribe, the biggest issue with DIYing salt is going to be impurities. There is no "DIY Kit," you are going to need to source all of your own chemicals and all of them are either going to have to be lab quality (which will cost WAY more than buying IO) or you are going to need to know how to remove the impurities yourself. Theoretically you can get everything you need on Amazon, Ali, or Ebay but you are going to need to research basically every supplier to ensure you are getting what you actually think you are getting. I haven't done my own complete salt, but I've done my own N, P, K, Mg, Alk, Ca, and I and the biggest issue was finding chemicals that were high enough quality. Other than 3-part, it cost far more to make my own than it did to just buy it premade (but back then you couldn't just buy most of them). Here is the breakdown of ions if you want to have a go: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php If you are a registered non-profit or an educational institute, why don't you just reach out to Instant Ocean directly? You aren't going to be paying the standard $0.225/g. 1 Quote Link to comment
Reefkid88 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Do you live in FL ? Also my next question is how/where are you going to find the hundreds of trace elements found in NSW ? Are you going to literally calculate and test hundreds of times until you get the correct amount ? I mean there is TONS of foundimental building blocks in salt elemental wise. I am curious on how you plan to dulicate this. Quote Link to comment
seabass Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 It probably depends on if you are just keeping fish, or trying to grow coral (as the two have different needs). I can imagine DIY salt for keeping fish, but as jservedio stated, for coral, you can buy 46lbs of Instant Ocean (containing everything you need) for $38 shipped to you: https://www.petsmart.com/fish/food-and-care/salt-water-aquarium-care/instant-ocean-sea-salt-17999.html Whereas certain elements can be obtained from dried saltwater, reconstituting it will not result in the same properties it had before it was dried. Check out this article: https://web.archive.org/web/20130620135633/http://www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGrams/Salt_Mixes.pdf 1 1 Quote Link to comment
debbeach13 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 3 hours ago, Squidfish66 said: And my “tank” is 8k gallons. I’m working with a non profit to restore the seagrass in the Indian river lagoon. We must save money to be successful. This might be the most important sentence in your into. 1 1 Quote Link to comment
seabass Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 12 minutes ago, debbeach13 said: This might be the most important sentence in your into. Yeah, I originally skimmed over that. Quote Link to comment
Tired Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 This is a very aggressive way to ask for advice. You're going to scare people off, or make them decide that they don't want to help you. I assume you aren't able to get straight-up natural seawater, with the water still in it? Are there any public aquariums nearby? You could ask them where they get their salt. Though you'll want to ask them more politely than you've asked here. 1 Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 uhh... I know this used to be a thing but damn.. never heard of anyone doing it now... They do have bulk salt... one of these makes 8000 gallons (how convenient) but I have no idea the cost as I don't have a 8k gallon tank 🙂 It looks like they even have different formulas. I know this isn't DIY but if you HAD to buy salt, you want to contact a few venders (including Instant ocean) that sell salts to public aquariums as bulk form would obviously be second cheapest after DIY. Maybe they would sell you one at cost since it is non profit? I am sure shipping would be a bitch, not sure where you live or if a salt supplier is in the area. https://aquacraft.net/bulk-salt-sacks/ reef keeping has a recipe but guess you already have that. good luck in your search. 3 Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Reefkid88 said: Do you live in FL ? Also my next question is how/where are you going to find the hundreds of trace elements found in NSW ? Are you going to literally calculate and test hundreds of times until you get the correct amount ? I mean there is TONS of foundimental building blocks in salt elemental wise. I am curious on how you plan to dulicate this. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php#21 It apparently is a lot simpler then I would have thought. 4 Quote Link to comment
Reefkid88 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Tamberav said: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php#21 It apparently is a lot simpler then I would have thought. Maybe no,but making a stock solution and testing for all the elements may be 🤷♂️. Also trying to find a steady source of pure pharmceutical/food grade componets may be tough as well. 3 Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, Reefkid88 said: Maybe no,but making a stock solution and testing for all the elements may be 🤷♂️. Also trying to find a steady source of pure pharmceutical/food grade componets may be tough as well. Ya, supplier probably a pain... just sounds like most of the elements will be there. A lot of trace just gets depleted anyways. Then there are those softy tanks running 20 years without a water change so they are probably missing whatever doesn't get replenished enough in feeding. Sea grass probably just needs some dosing of some DIY cheato grow? 🤔 Quote Link to comment
patback Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Does your non profit know you are putting your face on their cause? I spend 75% of my life in side of pharmaceuticals and can get just about everything you would need I am guessing by asking. With your attitude, I will only give you a friendly #### you. 3 1 Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Also off-topic to reefkid, I still need to go dig out the MP10. First time I sat all day, ahh feels great 🙂 Quote Link to comment
Reefkid88 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, patback said: Does your non profit know you are putting your face on their cause? I spend 75% of my life in side of pharmaceuticals and can get just about everything you would need I am guessing by asking. With your attitude, I will only give you a friendly #### you. #PREACH their original post before this was super off putting and kinda rude but 🤷♂️ 7 minutes ago, Tamberav said: Also off-topic to reefkid, I still need to go dig out the MP10. First time I sat all day, ahh feels great 🙂 No worries,I know the feeling. I have been literally chasing my 2 around for the past 4hrs while trying tondo laundry,dishes,get them to eat and cleaning the house 😂. Anne Frank listened better than these 2... 1 Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 https://aslopubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.4319/lo.1967.12.1.0176 Just to pile on, I think this was published back in 1967. But even Wikipedia has the formula online these days: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_seawater As far as I know, it's very possible to make a serviceable mix, but it's a hassle compared to just opening a bag of Product X, and the inconsistencies from batch to batch are noticeable. You just need an accurate gram scale (most kitchen scales should work OK) and an eye for detail. A worthy experiment. (For some reason this thread seems like Nano Reef's equivalent to drunk history or something, eh?) 2 Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 if you can’t afford over priced salt then you shouldn’t be in this hobby” This is very not like nano reef… a bunch of cheap asses here tbh 🤣 You should see me during the instant ocean sales when it’s $23ish a bucket. Buy! Buy! Buy! This is why we have nanos and not 300g tanks, costs less 😁 Especially if you use your old cookie jar. You might be thinking of Facebook. People have the craziest comments about other people’s lives there. Everyone is an expert. 3 1 Quote Link to comment
Squidfish66 Posted November 16, 2022 Author Share Posted November 16, 2022 Thank you everyone for the help. And sorry about coming off as rude. I’m really a nice, polite guy, I was just all worked up when I posted this from dealing posts from rude people like I quoted. 1 1 Quote Link to comment
Squidfish66 Posted November 16, 2022 Author Share Posted November 16, 2022 This is embarrassing, but I was having a episode. This one was caused by being overwhelmed by rude people on the internet and it made me a rude person on the internet for a moment. Idk why I thought it was appropriate at the time. I guess I thought since I was talking about bad people it made it ok, but of course it doesn’t, sorry. This is the first episode In three months. Sorry It spilled onto here, I fixed the main post. 6 1 Quote Link to comment
Tired Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Ah, that helps a lot! Both the editing and the willingness to admit that there's a problem in the first place, rather than doubling down on the rudeness. Believe me, I know the feeling. It's easy to get wrapped up in the rude folks and start assuming that everyone is rude. Sorry I don't have any further advice on salt, but kudos on the maturity. 4 Quote Link to comment
ptora Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 The closest thing I recall seeing DIY salt was on instagram where someone was mixing capitv8 traces with sodium chloride (sorry I'm not a chemist so I might have this wrong) but I've linked his video and contact below which I believe he is in the chem. engineering background who may be able to help you source and go from there. https://www.instagram.com/tv/CXR2miZFYWP/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link Good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment
patback Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 Check out Andrew Sandler at poloreef.com. He has a 17000 gallon tank plus many others that I believe he makes his own salt blend for. He is great and enjoys answering any questions he can offer an answer to. He may even have a youtube video on it. Check out any directories for pharmaceutical companies in your areas industrial parks. My lfs gets their calcium and magnesium in bulk 55 gallon drums from a local one. You can also try a lfs and ask how they got started in their water quantity, and they may even enjoy helping out the cause in exchange of getting the "free" advertisement. We all appreciate the apology and I am sure that at some point all of us have let the ugly out by accident. 3 Quote Link to comment
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