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Cloudy white-green water


yetti

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I have for the last few days had a bloom of some sorts that has my water going cloudy white/greenish. All the corals and fish seem fine, and I've been monitoring water quality trying to make sure that nothing is shooting up.

 

My parameters so far are:

Water volume: 18 gallons

PH 8.2

Temp. 27.8 C (82 F)

Nitrite/Nitrate: 0 (verified with Seachem and Red Sea test)

Phosphate: 0.01 ppm

Alkalinity 8.4 dKH (3 meq/L)

 

I can't test for Calcium/magnesium yet - still need to get a test kit.

 

I'm dosing 2 part DIY as the the RHF recipe 1.

 

This started after I added a few corals and a Sebae anemone this past weekend. The Anemone seems to have found a spot it likes, as has stopped moving around. I have read this could be the culprit, but I have not noticed it melting away (its extended and seemingly OK). What I have noticed is some white specs that look like dust on the glass. I'm trying to figure out if it might be precipitation of calcium carbonate or similar that is causing this white/greenish cloudiness. I have noticed that flakes form when I'm dosing the 2-part Alk, but they go away quickly.

 

One additional thing I noticed is the dino's I was having in the tank almost completely went away now. I did a 50% water change yesterday, which cut the cloudiness as expected, but it came back almost to the same level overnight.

 

Any thoughts on pointers on what to look at will be welcome.

 

119262188_IMG_0794Large.thumb.jpeg.1b842f35b7e2e772d7d0dcbd72905936.jpeg

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I tweaked the lights and it seems that with white light the water is green, so algae related. I'll look at adding GFO to combat some of the nutrients.

 

The clownfish have started hosting the Anemone (hadn't noticed due to the cloudiness), so hopefully a sign the anemone is doing OK.

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Po4 is only 0.01. I would not add gfo. Especially since you had Dino’s. 
 

A small UV will likely clear this up if it is bacterial or algae bloom. 
 

Tank seems to be devoid of nutrients and some imbalance is happening. 

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Thanks!

 

from the beginning the tank has been pretty much at 0 Nitrate 0 Phosphate. I'm trying to figure out how to let it come to balance, but might just let is be for a week or so and see how it evolves.

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6 hours ago, yetti said:

Thanks!

 

from the beginning the tank has been pretty much at 0 Nitrate 0 Phosphate. I'm trying to figure out how to let it come to balance, but might just let is be for a week or so and see how it evolves.

The 50% water change was unintentionally the opposite of what you wanted to do....lowering overall nutrient levels 50% from already REALLY low levels.

 

If you wanted to resolve the nutrient problem, it would be fine to dose 0.10 ppm of PO4 (eg Seachem Flourish Phosphate) and 5 or 10 ppm of NO3 (eg Seachem Flourish Nitrate).  That way it's done and you have a baseline.   Test about an hour after dosing the first round of nutrients to see if the tank used up a significant amount of the level you dosed....sometimes the initial uptake from a "starved" tank can be quite considerable.  If you find levels significantly lower than what you targeted, dose up to your target a second time.  Retest again....more than likely you will still see your target level, but repeat as needed until you do.

 

However, if you're feeding the tank regularly, then attaining some balance should mostly be a matter of stopping whatever filtration and water cleaning you're doing for a while.  E.g Stop doing water changes or using any filter media.  A protein skimmer probably wouldn't hurt if that's all you were doing, but even that could be optional for a while.

 

IMO this is a delayed side-effect from how you started the tank, via ghost feeding/ammonia spike...vs using some live rock/something more wholistic.  

 

Remember this from a month ago, which from what I can tell was about a month after the tank started...

On 10/4/2022 at 10:49 PM, yetti said:

Had a bit of cloudiness and then brown water

Back to now....

 

If all you do to cycle a new tank is to trigger a bacteria or algae bloom (eg via rotting food), then IMO you get a really tilted version of tank ecology.  

 

Yes it will "process ammonia" but....is it a real microbial community?  No.  And it's nothing like a reef's microbial commnunity.  This community is what gives a reef its resilience and stability.

 

There's an argument to be had that starting with an ammonia spike also plays into the high rate of disease seen all too commonly in tanks started this way.  Check out this link.

 

Sometimes with this tilt I mentioned, you get a pelagic (floating) bacterial/algae bloom like you experienced instead of the usual benthic (on surfaces) bacterial bloom that nobody ever notices.

 

I agree with the idea of using a UV filter if you don't want to wait it out.

 

You can also just be patient and wait for things to balance on their own.  (Corals might be loving the free-floating food supply while it lasts. 👍)

 

IMO, just worry about balancing the tank better and adding more life.  If you can tolerate some "cloudy weather", IMO you can rest assured that it will pass.   Just don't go manufacturing any more cloudy days. 😉

 

BTW....

 

21 hours ago, yetti said:

I'm dosing 2 part DIY as the the RHF recipe 1.

How much are you adding?  Seems pretty soon after adding corals, especially if you're doing a regular water change schedule, so just checking.

 

While you're dosing, consider switching to Recipe #2.....it's easier on the tank due to not spiking pH the way Recipe #1 does.  (Chasing "high pH" was a thing at one point.)

 

Recipe #2 goes the other way, depressing pH with the little bit of CO2 it carries, but only a little....and CO2 very important for corals, essentially a fertiilzer – they actually appreciate it for the short time that it lasts.

 

 

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thanks for the detailed reply @mcarroll!

 

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

If you wanted to resolve the nutrient problem, it would be fine to dose 0.10 ppm of PO4 (eg Seachem Flourish Phosphate) and 5 or 10 ppm of NO3 (eg Seachem Flourish Nitrate).  That way it's done and you have a baseline.   Test about an hour after dosing the first round of nutrients to see if the tank used up a significant amount of the level you dosed....sometimes the initial uptake from a "starved" tank can be quite considerable.  If you find levels significantly lower than what you targeted, dose up to your target a second time.  Retest again....more than likely you will still see your target level, but repeat as needed until you do.

 

However, if you're feeding the tank regularly, then attaining some balance should mostly be a matter of stopping whatever filtration and water cleaning you're doing for a while.  E.g Stop doing water changes or using any filter media.  A protein skimmer probably wouldn't hurt if that's all you were doing, but even that could be optional for a while.

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into which chemicals I can get locally to dose Phosphate and Nitrate. I am feeding regularly the two clownfish, and now recently the sebae I added (a bit early as I now read...).

 

I don't have significant filtration at this stage other than a filter sock and carbon. I am aiming to run this tank skimmer-less, so will try so far. Would you then suggest taking out the filter sock and carbon completely? Will give it a go.

 

I'm not too much in a rush to correct, was more concerned whether this could be something that would cause the tank to crash (thus the water change). As I'm seeing the corals seems to be doing ok, the Sebae Anemone has settled in a spot and is eating, so will reduce the worry and let the tank cycle out for now.

 

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

How much are you adding?  Seems pretty soon after adding corals, especially if you're doing a regular water change schedule, so just checking.

I'm dosing 4 mL of each part per day, as per the "New tank, few corals" guideline. I've been measuring Alk and it has dropped around 0.5 meq/L per week. With the amount of precipitate I'm getting and the relatively low dose, I was also thinking of switching to recipe two. I'm getting a doser in the coming days, so will do that when I install it.

 

I'll post back in the coming days, to see how the tank progresses.

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2 hours ago, yetti said:

thanks for the detailed reply @mcarroll!

 

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into which chemicals I can get locally to dose Phosphate and Nitrate. I am feeding regularly the two clownfish, and now recently the sebae I added (a bit early as I now read...).

 

I don't have significant filtration at this stage other than a filter sock and carbon. I am aiming to run this tank skimmer-less, so will try so far. Would you then suggest taking out the filter sock and carbon completely? Will give it a go.

Affirmative – yank em out.

 

2 hours ago, yetti said:

I'm not too much in a rush to correct, was more concerned whether this could be something that would cause the tank to crash (thus the water change). As I'm seeing the corals seems to be doing ok, the Sebae Anemone has settled in a spot and is eating, so will reduce the worry and let the tank cycle out for now.

Well, nutrients riding at/near zero tends to p*** off a lot of photosynthetic critters – especially dinoflagellates.  (Coral symbionts are dino's too!!!)

 

So depending how narrowly you define "crash" I think the tank can be said to be trending toward a crash of sorts.  

 

Rapid nutrient fixes aren't a problem, BTW...there's no effect on water chemistry or anything like that.  (These are nutrients after all.) 

 

Only zero-nutrient conditions are a problem.  In particular, phosphates at zero can be a big problem.

 

It's good that corals aren't showing any signs of trouble yet.....means you have time to address it BEFORE that happens.

 

If you don't see some activity on your NO3 and PO4 tests after a few days without water changes or filtration, I'd consider dosing some nutrients if possible.  Begin by adding phosphate.

 

2 hours ago, yetti said:

I'm dosing 4 mL of each part per day, as per the "New tank, few corals" guideline. I've been measuring Alk and it has dropped around 0.5 meq/L per week. With the amount of precipitate I'm getting and the relatively low dose, I was also thinking of switching to recipe two. I'm getting a doser in the coming days, so will do that when I install it.

While you're still manually dosing, consider diluting each dose by 100% (or more) with RODI water.  E.g. 4 mL of concentrate becomes 8 or 16 mL (now at 1/2 or 1/4 concentration) in your dosing container. This will reduce the localized pH boost going into your tank water.

 

Also dose at night, or even better in the morning BEFORE the tank lights come on....when system pH will be at its lowest.

 

Last, consider buying or making a dripper so you aren't adding the whole dose at once.  An upside down soda bottle with a hole in the bottom is all it takes.  Install a valve in the hole if you want to be fancy and be able to adjust the drip rate.  Air line valves should be good.

 

(And as already mentioned, switching to Recipe #2 will help.)

 

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The one potential negative if a bloom like this is it use up oxygen and fish can suffocate, usually at night. Depending how bad it is. You want lots of surface agitation. 
 

A UV can also zap at least one kind of Dino that goes into the water column at night. 
 

Waiting it out is fine too but keep a close eye on your fish. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

After two weeks, time for an update...

 

I started dosing phosphate and nitrate, with phosphate basically going to 0 overnight. In about two days after dosing the water color turned full green, so green that it was not possible to look inside beyond and inch or two. With that, I decided to go ahead and get a UV sterilizer, and got the 9W Green Killing Machine. It has worked quite well (although slow as it might be a bit small for the amount of cloudiness) and after around 5 days, I can basically see the full tank with a bit of a white cloudiness. I would expect that to clear up in the coming days.

 

The corals all made it through the cloudiness, and I'm guessing had a good meal from the phytoplankton, as a few are larger despite what I assume is very low light levels. The Anemone also made it perfectly fine.

 

Regarding nutrient levels, I had stopped dosing phosphate/nitrate as I was traveling, but I did re-dose yesterday aiming for a 0.1 ppm phosphate level (did not dose nitrate). After 24 hours, the level is now 0.08. This I hope indicates that removing the filter media as per suggestions and dealing with the green cloudiness has helped drive a bit of nutrients. I also tested nitrate and the result was 0.25. I have not dosed more, will give it a few more days to see how it develops before adding more.

 

In terms of other nuisance algae showing up, I only notice a small patch of what seems to be cyano, will monitor if any other show up.

 

Thanks for the help so far.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Now a few weeks after, the water is completely crystal-clear, as expected with the UV Filter. Overall I'm starting to get a bit of hair algae in the back glass and some rocks, but still in manageable proportions, and the hermit crabs seem to be taking a bite at it.

 

in terms of water parameters, latest were:

  • Phosphate: 0.02 ppm
  • Nitrate: 0 PPM
  • Alk: 2.2 meq/L
  • Calcium 420
  • Magnesium 1300 ppm

The Alk I'm increasing my daily dose from 4 mL of two part to 7 mL, to account for consumption (have done this over two weeks, measuring depletion), and will increase base level to 3.0 meq/L with baking soda.

 

For Phosphate, I have been adding enough to replenish to 0.1 ppm every week, but still continues to drop back to 0.02 ppm. Same with Nitrate, dosed to 2 PPM last week, and now at 0. I'll continue dosing Phosphate, and see how nitrate develops, as I'm sure the dosing has brought about the hair algae. Any ideas on whether I should continue dosing nitrate to 2 PPM every week along with phosphate?

 

Corals all look good and healthy. My birdsnest that initially had shed "skin" is now regrowing across its branches, so seems to be doing better. The rest of corals are growing fast, and see some initial signs of heads splitting in a candy cane, along with a lot of new polyps in Zoas and heads in Acans. I'm also starting to see specs of coralline algae growing on rock, so hopefully some indication things are headed in the right direction.

 

Thank you all for your help so far.

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12 hours ago, yetti said:

Overall I'm starting to get a bit of hair algae in the back glass and some rocks, but still in manageable proportions, and the hermit crabs seem to be taking a bite at it.

Hermit is a scavenger...you can lower your expectations of him regarding algae control right now. 😉 

 

Hopefully you have some dedicated herbivores (snails: turbo, astrea, trochus, cerith) on duty – if not, you missed the starting gun and  now the algae has a head start.  No fair!!!

 

If you're seeing the algae grow and spread, then you need more CUC no matter what's in the tank currently.

 

But that ALSO means that you probably need to be in the tank manually pulling out algae that's already grown too big for snails to eat.  (Basically everything big enough to see.)

 

Part of the problem IMO is the (repeating) low nutrient levels keeping things other than algae from populating your available rock space.  

 

Algae are well adapted to the ups and downs your tank is still experiencing.  

 

Most other benthic critters that would be your allies vs an algae takeover are not so well adapted....so they really struggle or fail to thrive altogether.

 

For starters – double check your cleanup crew.  If you don't have a good team there, you're definitely going to have an algae takeover sooner or later IMO.  (That's the natural side effect of not having a cleanup crew....even on a wild reef.)

 

12 hours ago, yetti said:

For Phosphate, I have been adding enough to replenish to 0.1 ppm every week, but still continues to drop back to 0.02 ppm. Same with Nitrate, dosed to 2 PPM last week, and now at 0. I'll continue dosing Phosphate, and see how nitrate develops, as I'm sure the dosing has brought about the hair algae. Any ideas on whether I should continue dosing nitrate to 2 PPM every week along with phosphate?

Your tank is only growing algae because you're only providing enough nutrients for that – and just barley!  You're slightly lucky you haven't seen a reappearance by dino's.

 

You either have to dose to a higher level or dose more frequently to prevent levels from getting below your target level.  

 

You basically need to handle your nutrient levels with the same strict approach that you use to control alkalinity levels.

 

Do not let PO4 fall to 0.03 ppm (or lower) again under any circumstance.

 

That's an absolute minimum level where some things will begin to struggle – ideally it doesn't even get that low.  0.04 ppm or higher should be what you test every time when you come back to check the tank's PO4 level.

 

Nitrate levels are also important but far less crucial overall.  It would still be ideal if levels did not return to zero again. 5.0+ ppm for NO3.

 

12 hours ago, yetti said:

Corals all look good and healthy. My birdsnest that initially had shed "skin" is now regrowing across its branches, so seems to be doing better. The rest of corals are growing fast, and see some initial signs of heads splitting in a candy cane, along with a lot of new polyps in Zoas and heads in Acans. I'm also starting to see specs of coralline algae growing on rock, so hopefully some indication things are headed in the right direction.

These things ALL need the same basic requirements as your algae bloom – that's why they're all taking off AND why you're seeing the uptick in alkalinity consumption.

 

Everything in the whole tank has been nutrient limited up to now.  So now everything is growing and trying to bloom.  (Keep it going!!)

 

Keep those levels from getting back to zero and the algae will have less of an advantage than it has had.  But you will still have to manually remove what has grown in the tank so far – it's not likely to give up on its own.

 

Can you post a pic that shows some typical algae growth?  A full tank shot would also be cool.

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Thanks for the reply. I'm adding below a few FTS from today -

On 12/5/2022 at 1:42 AM, mcarroll said:

Hopefully you have some dedicated herbivores (snails: turbo, astrea, trochus, cerith) on duty – if not, you missed the starting gun and  now the algae has a head start.  No fair!!!

I do have a two turbos and two nassarius snails, along with two hermits. I'll see if I can get a few more turbos.

 

On 12/5/2022 at 1:42 AM, mcarroll said:

That's an absolute minimum level where some things will begin to struggle – ideally it doesn't even get that low.  0.04 ppm or higher should be what you test every time when you come back to check the tank's PO4 level.

 

Nitrate levels are also important but far less crucial overall.  It would still be ideal if levels did not return to zero again. 5.0+ ppm for NO3.

Noted - will be more stringent on dosing for this.

 

Here are the FTS:

799409192_IMG_0921Large.thumb.jpeg.c5c1bdeef81fa717c8c5f06c5f483f2e.jpeg

 

You can see the algae tufts on the rock. Not significant yet, but will look at more CUC.

1623698266_IMG_0923Large.thumb.jpeg.36cac45a6dfe987df684d26d40c67eae.jpeg

 

692846457_IMG_0924Large.thumb.jpeg.24ab7482af0e760578ed0dd229efda8d.jpeg

 

The back glass has a lot more algae, so far have not manually removed, will likely do so over the weekend.

1874851689_IMG_0925Large.thumb.jpeg.238f9f0742d54e4b22e608deeaf3ecc6.jpeg

 

IMG_0922 Large.jpeg

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1 hour ago, yetti said:

The back glass has a lot more algae, so far have not manually removed, will likely do so over the weekend.

1874851689_IMG_0925Large.thumb.jpeg.238f9f0742d54e4b22e608deeaf3ecc6.jpeg

Yes – do that!  🙂 

 

You want to eliminate or prevent any algae from growing to be mature like that stand of it on the back wall.  It becomes inedible to your herbivores AND contributes to increasing the rate of algae spreading elsewhere in the tank.

 

This becomes less important as the tank matures and corals (among other things) take over more of the available real estate.

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As an update, glass is now clean and the tank is looking good!

 

The phosphate and nitrate consumption continues at a quite fast pace, so I will be auto-dosing for a while, and testing weekly to ensure I keep under control. Alkalinity consumption has stabilized, so seems my dosing is now in line with the tanks needs.

 

Thanks!

 

1869994739_IMG_0958Large.thumb.jpeg.f5783743afa6d07615715d9fc0ce8de9.jpeg

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