? on Water Changes

[sadie]

My tank is an established16 gal BipCube.  It was a little neglected toward the end of the summer.  Alk went down to 6 and Phos and NO3 went down to 0. Last 2-3 weeks levels are back to good.  (will post levels at end of post)

 

I have a black algae on my sand bed.  I have been stirring the sand bed in the AM (In the past it has worked with cyano).  It has not worked.  It just sits there in smaller pieces.  The last time I vacuumed my sand bed I basically ended up doing a 1 gal WC.  The next morning I had a bit of cyano that took about 2 weeks to get rid of.

 

my ? is- could I vacuum the sand bed, removing what I can from the sand bed, then filter the water and put it back in my tank.  I'm afraid if I do an actual water change the cyano will come back.

 

Phos .04

NO3 5

KH 8.3

Calcium 460

salinity 25 (last 2 #s checked with a calibrated refractometer)

 

I will also post a pic of the black stuff growing on the sand bed if anyone knows what it is and how to get rid of it, that would be nice to know too.  I'm hoping as I keep my levels stable it will go away. The pics are from this morning before I did anything.

 

thanks!!

[brandon429]

I recommend don't accept someone's guess 

 

Find a thread that did what you're planning to see if it worked long term

 

If you can't find a thread/I recommend don't although it won't harm your system to try. It could harm other systems who are not as detritus controlled as your system, the only thing you risk is bigger outbreak which isn't that hard to re fix. 

 

A turbo twist uv is the most likely help i thought I remember you have one? Did you have uv

 

Get one off amazon/ send it back for return in 3 weeks if doesn't work

[sadie]

I do not have a uv.  I was thinking of getting one and came very close, but didn't.  I will search through old threads and see if anyone else has done it.

 

thanks

[patback]

Removing algae or cyanobacteria but doing nothing to get rid of the source will not get rid of the algae. Your water is the source, so I would not clean and then put the water back in. 

[Tired]

If doing a water change immediately produced cyano, your new water may have high organics or be otherwise causing cyano to surge. When was the last time the carbon cartridge on your RODI was changed? I got a nasty cyano surge once from forgetting to swap my carbon cartridge. 

 

I like that green acan! 

 

Try not to worry too much about the black algae. If it's not actively overgrowing any corals, it can wait until you have your nutrient levels stable and have the cyano figured out.

[sadie]

On 10/28/2022 at 10:38 AM, Tired said:

If doing a water change immediately produced cyano, your new water may have high organics or be otherwise causing cyano to surge. When was the last time the carbon cartridge on your RODI was changed? I got a nasty cyano surge once from forgetting to swap my carbon cartridge. 

 

I like that green acan! 

 

Try not to worry too much about the black algae. If it's not actively overgrowing any corals, it can wait until you have your nutrient levels stable and have the cyano figured out.

I use distilled water from Walmart so the RODI couldn't be an issue.  I am not running carbon at the moment, I don't usually.  I only use a filter floss in my tower that I change out about 3x a week. (though I did get a little lazy with that for a bit).

 

The green acan was actually orange when I bought it.😵  I have no idea why it turned green, but I am starting to like it green.  😊

The black alge doesn't seem to be bothering the corals, just me.  

[mcarroll]

I'll bet the "Black" algae is another cyano.   Would be interesting to take a closer look if you have a microscope.  (Even a toy microscope works.)

 

Do yo have any cleanup crew?   I don't see any in the pics....and you claim to be doing a lot of sand stirring for some reason.

 

It looks like you could need "more" cleanup crew regardless of your answer.   Focus on algae eating snails if you add more.  And don't over-do it.  Add a small amount and see how the change is to the tank after a week or two.

 

6 hours ago, sadie said:

The green acan was actually orange when I bought it.😵

It may have been acclimated to sunlight if it was maricultured.  Any idea as to the source of the frag, geographically speaking?

 

What are your lights light in terms of color and intensity?

 

Also what's your flow like?

[sadie]

4 hours ago, mcarroll said:

I'll bet the "Black" algae is another cyano.   Would be interesting to take a closer look if you have a microscope.  (Even a toy microscope works.)

 

Do yo have any cleanup crew?   I don't see any in the pics....and you claim to be doing a lot of sand stirring for some reason.

 

It looks like you could need "more" cleanup crew regardless of your answer.   Focus on algae eating snails if you add more.  And don't over-do it.  Add a small amount and see how the change is to the tank after a week or two.

 

It may have been acclimated to sunlight if it was maricultured.  Any idea as to the source of the frag, geographically speaking?

 

What are your lights light in terms of color and intensity?

 

Also what's your flow like?

I do have a microscope!! I'll check it out, but don't really know what I'm looking for.  I got it a few years ago for the same reason, but it's been so long since I used it, I'll  have to look up online what I'm looking at.  I think I found a chart or something with different algaes under a scope.

 

I do have a CUC that consists of a variety of snails, sand sifting snails, I think I have 1 hermit crab left.  I meant to add more snails before it got too cold for a shipment, but I think I waited too long.

 

I don't know much about lights/lighting.  I have the stock lights that came with it.  My schedule is:

L1 on at 8:00 AM off at 5 PM

L2 on at 9:00 AM off at 9:30 PM

L3 on at 6:00 AM off at 12:30 AM

 

My flow is the stock nozzle that came with it (I did upgrade the pump to a bit bigger).  I added a Jaebo SLW-10 that's on the side wall toward the top.

[mcarroll]

On 10/31/2022 at 9:23 AM, sadie said:

I do have a microscope!! I'll check it out, but don't really know what I'm looking for.  I got it a few years ago for the same reason, but it's been so long since I used it, I'll  have to look up online what I'm looking at.  I think I found a chart or something with different algaes under a scope.

PhycoKey is a GREAT website for algae ID.   It's all picture-based, and you drill down through "features" to find your algae.

 

I will warn you though, that we routinely get only 2-3 kinds of algae.....so might be just as well to post pics here before you take too much time Googling.  (There are millions of kinds of algae, so narrowing it down can be A LOT.)

 

FYI, a cellphone takes GREAT microscope pics if you have a reasonably steady hand.  There are also phone mounts for microscopes (same device as used for binoculars and telescopes) if your hand isn't so steady. 😉 

 

On 10/31/2022 at 9:23 AM, sadie said:

I do have a CUC that consists of a variety of snails, sand sifting snails, I think I have 1 hermit crab left.

Hermits and sand sifters aren't that helpful in these situations.

 

What do you have in terms of algae eating snails as far as type and quantity?

 

No LFS to buy from?

 

On 10/31/2022 at 9:23 AM, sadie said:

I don't know much about lights/lighting.  I have the stock lights that came with it.  My schedule is:

L1 on at 8:00 AM off at 5 PM

L2 on at 9:00 AM off at 9:30 PM

L3 on at 6:00 AM off at 12:30 AM

I know some about lighting, but don't know much about the LED BioCubes setup.....what do L1, L2 and L3 represent in terms of lighting?  (Is this similar to what you see other folks using on their BC16's?)

[sadie]

On 11/1/2022 at 1:58 PM, mcarroll said:

FYI, a cellphone takes GREAT microscope pics if you have a reasonably steady hand.  There are also phone mounts for microscopes (same device as used for binoculars and telescopes) if your hand isn't so steady.

I don't have a smart phone or any phone that will take a picture.

 

On 11/1/2022 at 1:58 PM, mcarroll said:

What do you have in terms of algae eating snails as far as type and quantity?

 

No LFS to buy from?

I have some cerith snails, a ton of dwarf cerith, 2 turbos, a couple east african ceriths, and maybe 4 florida ceriths left.  I only have a PetCo close by and their snails seem to die on me quick.  I do have anothe store, but it's about an hour away.

 

I'm not too sure exactly what the L1 L2 and L3 are.  I found this as a description "Includes bright white LEDs for the daytime, sparkling blue Moon Glows for the nighttime and color enhancing LEDs for maximum beauty". Each one is programable.

 

I am getting my microscope out tomorrow and cleaning my tank.  I'll see what I'm dealing with and the best way to "attack" it.

 

 

[mcarroll]

39 minutes ago, sadie said:

I don't have a smart phone or any phone that will take a picture.

☎ <- just a phone

 

🙂

 

That's a good policy....if not entirely helpful when you want microscope pics tho.  😂 

 

(Dedicated microscope cameras aren't THAT expensive if you wanted to get that far into scoping.  Don't think you'd need anything but the most basic unit.  E.g. $45 for this Amscope camera.)

 

41 minutes ago, sadie said:

I have some cerith snails, a ton of dwarf cerith, 2 turbos, a couple east african ceriths, and maybe 4 florida ceriths left. 

That seems like a good non-zero amount of snails.  

 

But (just for reference) also not close to the max. amount you "could" have....around 2 Turbo's per gallon is a top-end rule of thumb.  Normalizing to Turbo snails, I'd say you have about 3+ Turbos presently.

 

Consider checking out the 1hour away LFS for your next purchase.  Maybe call ahead to make sure they have a good selection of snails tho since they're kinda far.

 

49 minutes ago, sadie said:

I'm not too sure exactly what the L1 L2 and L3 are.  I found this as a description "Includes bright white LEDs for the daytime, sparkling blue Moon Glows for the nighttime and color enhancing LEDs for maximum beauty". Each one is programable.

What do you think about turning down the white lights a bit more for a while?  

 

If you mess with the L channels, does one of them seem to control white exclusively?   Or do white's and blue's dim together?

 

Also what do you think about running a UV filter and/or a micron filter (e.g. Marineland's Polishing filter)?  This will slow the spread of algae considerably while you're ramping up the CUC to control what's there......but obviously costs more money than snails.

[sadie]

I was going to turn the whites down a bit if it didn't go way by today, which it hasn't.  The whites and the blues are separate so I can change the white w/o changing the blues.

 

I kinda got pictures with my camera.  The first one is from the sandbed, it's kinda like a mat on the bed.  It looked like if you cut a paint brush bristles off and they fell on the slide.  The second picture Is stringy and it looks like hair under the microscope,  It was kinda crazy cause among the "hair" like things were REALLY skinny pieces that were still moving under the micro scope.  It was kinda cool.

 

my whites are on for 12.5 hours. That actually seems like a lot.  My plan is to back them off 2 hours a day (1 hour on each end) until they are on for only 6 hrs a day.

 

Here are the pics from my camera.  They are not clear, but maybe it will show something.

[sadie]

They looked better before I put them on the site.  On my computer, they looked clearer then that.  oh well

[mcarroll]

11 hours ago, sadie said:

my whites are on for 12.5 hours. That actually seems like a lot.  My plan is to back them off 2 hours a day (1 hour on each end) until they are on for only 6 hrs a day.

 

If Blue is on it's own channel, and White on its own, then just make sure the combo is less white.  If you can also cut hours, then maybe do that too....

 

Having more than a 12 hour day isn't called for.  1-2 of the twelve hours you light the tank can be dedicated to twilight, sunrise and sunset.

 

Are the channels actually dimming on/off or do they just switch 100% ON/OFF via timers?   I just gave advice for a dimming setup.  

 

If the BC16's setup is just timers, then you probably want a shorter day overall where the white lights are only on around 4 hours in the middle of the day, blue lights are on up to 6-10 hours and moonlights for sunrise/sunset simulation.

[mcarroll]

BTW, what magnification is that?

 

You're right we will probably need clearer pics.

 

What colors were the algae you saw?  All green?

 

Long skinny moving things are very often nematode worms.  👍

 

One thing to consider is that seeing something under the scope other than a monoculture is generally a good sign.

 

Maybe try again on the photos?  Maybe try a movie this time as well.  👍

[sadie]

57 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

If Blue is on it's own channel, and White on its own, then just make sure the combo is less white.  If you can also cut hours, then maybe do that too....

 

Having more than a 12 hour day isn't called for.  1-2 of the twelve hours you light the tank can be dedicated to twilight, sunrise and sunset.

 

Are the channels actually dimming on/off or do they just switch 100% ON/OFF via timers?   I just gave advice for a dimming setup.  

 

If the BC16's setup is just timers, then you probably want a shorter day overall where the white lights are only on around 4 hours in the middle of the day, blue lights are on up to 6-10 hours and moonlights for sunrise/sunset simulation.

they are not dimmers, just timers that go on and off at the time you set.  I really should know more about my lighting.  

[sadie]

57 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

BTW, what magnification is that?

 

You're right we will probably need clearer pics.

 

What colors were the algae you saw?  All green?

 

Long skinny moving things are very often nematode worms.  👍

 

One thing to consider is that seeing something under the scope other than a monoculture is generally a good sign.

 

Maybe try again on the photos?  Maybe try a movie this time as well.  👍

It's a 1200x magnification.  In the tank the algae looks black, but under the scope it looks green.

 

I looked up nematode worms and they don't look like that.  They are even skinnier, only a thin single line, way thinner then the algae strans under the scope.

[mcarroll]

14 minutes ago, sadie said:

they are not dimmers, just timers that go on and off at the time you set.  I really should know more about my lighting.  

All good.  🙂

 

See how things go with the changes I recommended (or something close to that).

 

8 minutes ago, sadie said:

It's a 1200x magnification.  In the tank the algae looks black, but under the scope it looks green.

 

I looked up nematode worms and they don't look like that.  They are even skinnier, only a thin single line, way thinner then the algae strans under the scope.

Interesting.   Usually the things we're interested in look pretty good at lower power than that....even 400x.

 

I've heard that 1200x is mostly good for looking at (eg) details inside bacteria....but that higher end lenses are usually best for that.  So 1200x in most scopes isn't that great....it's sorta low light.   Lower powers (eg 400x) allow a lot more light, so as long as the details show, they will look a lot better/clearer.  This "extra" light might be especially important for taking camera shots.

 

I'm neither a microscope- nor a camer-jockey.  Purely amateur....literally one step past my toy scope. But I love it!  😉  

[sadie]

I looked up my lighting and found this:  I guess some of the lights do go on slowly

 

LC1 = Only Daytime LEDs will turn on

•

LC2 = Only Sunrise/Sunset LEDs will turn on

(They will start at low power and increase

incrementally over 30 minutes)

•

LC3 = Only Moon Glow LEDs will turn on

(They will start at low power and increase

incrementally over 60 minutes)

 

The only thing is they don't suggest any type of schedule, which would have been nice.  Like keep the daytime lights on for 6 hours a day, etc.  I know everyone has a different life schedule and want their tanks awake when they are awake, but the coral need a certain amount of light for photosynthesis. 

 

[sadie]

I did vacuum all the black algae off the bottom of my tank and I did filter the water through MANY layers of cheesecloth and put the water back in my tank.  My levels have been stable since 10/3 (Phos being .03 or higher, NO3 being 5 and KH being 8.3).

 

I'm beginning to think my problem might not have been the water, but my lights. (keeping them on too long).  Or maybe both (my phos and NO3 did get back to 0 and my KH went down to6.5, but not for too long).  Either way I decided to do it.  Everything is looking pretty good this morning.

 

I am going to look at the algae again with less magnification and see if I can get a better picture.

[Arthur11]

 I have been keeping a couple of aquariums for more than a decade. For most of that time, I have been changing the water of my tank the old-fashioned way. When I got my first good automatic water changer, it made my life better.

[sadie]

13 minutes ago, Arthur11 said:

 I have been keeping a couple of aquariums for more than a decade. For most of that time, I have been changing the water of my tank the old-fashioned way. When I got my first good automatic water changer, it made my life better.

I can't believe how many things have gone automatic- auto top offs, auto feeders, auto water changers.  I only have a 16 gl so when I was doing weekly WC it really wasn't bad.  I did 2 gal a week.  I have a 10 gal species tank (FW) and I do maybe 1/2 gal every week.  the 10 gal is fairly new.  Only a couple weeks.  

 

I will have to go check those out now just out of curiosity.  I could see that being awesome if I had a 55+.

[mcarroll]

5 hours ago, sadie said:

I looked up my lighting and found this:  I guess some of the lights do go on slowly

 

LC1 = Only Daytime LEDs will turn on

•

LC2 = Only Sunrise/Sunset LEDs will turn on

(They will start at low power and increase

incrementally over 30 minutes)

•

LC3 = Only Moon Glow LEDs will turn on

(They will start at low power and increase

incrementally over 60 minutes)

 

The only thing is they don't suggest any type of schedule, which would have been nice.  Like keep the daytime lights on for 6 hours a day, etc.  I know everyone has a different life schedule and want their tanks awake when they are awake, but the coral need a certain amount of light for photosynthesis. 

 

So there is SOME dimming....you just need to be spot-on with the timer settings to make sure the overlap doesn't obscure the dimming.  (They mention this in the manual with a callout under each programming section, L1, L2 and L3.)

 

LC1 is white.  LC2 is blue.   

 

From what I can tell, there's no intensity setting for either L1 or L2....which is probably because this isn't a very high-power system, it's probably just enough for this tank.

 

This means that as far as the corals are concerned, you want to run them simultaneously...or blues-only.  

 

For things like algae containment, you probably want at least 2 hours LESS time on the whites than the blues.

 

So maybe....

 

L1: 4 hours

L2: 6-8 hours

L3: 12-14 hours (= 24 - [L1+L2])

 

Again, you have to account for those 30 min dimming periods in your timing if you want to maximize the effect.

 

4 hours ago, sadie said:

I'm beginning to think my problem might not have been the water, but my lights. (keeping them on too long).  Or maybe both (my phos and NO3 did get back to 0 and my KH went down to6.5, but not for too long).  Either way I decided to do it.  Everything is looking pretty good this morning.

Probably a combination since food and light (along with flow and other factors) are so interrelated here.  👍

[sadie]

It seems to be working good, vacuuming the sand, filtering out the visible algae and putting it back in the tank.  I went to the no so local LFS and got 6 turbo snails, an emerald crab and a cleaner shrimp.  I have cut my lights back to about 4 hrs of white light.  We'll see how it all goes.

[Tired]

Make sure to feed that cleaner shrimp. They scavenge food, not gunk and algae. Whatever food you give your fish should work fine. The crab will also appreciate some occasional protein.

 

(You might already know this. I'm just telling you in case you don't.)