How to tell tank is done cycling?

[BubbleTrouble]

I want to stock my tank at the end of the month, I've had live rock and microbacter7 running in my tank for 2-3 weeks. What are some sure signs that it is a safe tank to put fish in?

[brandon429]

Per a cycle chart ammonia is controlled at day ten, you’re way past that. Ammonia is the only param we care about in cycling

 

Best way to know is # of days underwater it’s not ideal to reference non digital test kits those cause cycle problems all day long in every forum. Post a tank pic, real live rocks transfer over as a skip cycle and opt out of the entire wait anyway. Ten days is for new bacteria to adhere, not counting already done surfaces. I bet you have a zero wait, instant skip cycle live rock transfer nano.

 

 

and if not, if the rocks were just dry and not really live, then it’s still cycled after bottle bac and three weeks wait. All cycle charts agree.

[seabass]

You can simply check it using an inexpensive test kit, like from API.

 

For dry rock, dose ammonium chloride to 2 ppm of ammonia.  Wait for it to drop to 0.25 ppm.  Then repeat until your rock can process 2 ppm of total ammonia down to 0.25 ppm within 24 hours.  This is called fishless cycling.

 

The above works for any rock that has no non-bacterial animal life.  But don't dose ammonia into a tank that contains non-bacterial animal life.

 

For live rock coming from the ocean (or even from another fish tank), simply wait until total ammonia shows less than 0.25 ppm using an API ammonia test kit.  Then do a large enough water change to bring the nitrate level down to 10 ppm.  This should export the excess nitrate and further reduce the level of ammonia.  However, note that fish parasites can exist on these rocks, so a fallow period is a good precaution to take.

[less than bread]

The only sure way to tell it's ready is by dosing ammonia and then testing to make sure your tank processes it. The method you described is exactly how I cycle my tanks though. Very simple, just takes a bit of waiting, no testing. After 1 month I add fish, never had a problem. The thing to remember about this method is do not have any filtration going that could impede the microbacter and no water changes. After 1 month, do a water change, add filtration and fish. Is this crucial? I don't know, it just made sense in my mind to take all filtration out during the cycle

[BubbleTrouble]

21 hours ago, brandon429 said:

Per a cycle chart ammonia is controlled at day ten, you’re way past that. Ammonia is the only param we care about in cycling

 

Best way to know is # of days underwear, it’s not ideal to reference non digital test kits those cause cycle problems all day long in every forum. Post a tank pic, real live rocks transfer over as a skip cycle and opt out of the entire wait anyway. Ten days is for new bacteria to adhere, not counting already done surfaces. I bet you have a zero wait, instant skip cycle live rock transfer nano.

 

 

and if not, if the rocks were just dry and not really live, then it’s still cycled after bottle bac and three weeks wait. All cycle charts agree.

Okay, this eases my worries! Tests come back well with the Red Sea test kits and I use the dip sticks once or twice a week and things still look good. I did a water change today and got a few snails!

[BubbleTrouble]

11 hours ago, seabass said:

""

The tests read less than 0.25ppm so I am happy!!! I havent seen anything yet - and my last tank had bristle worms after the first month of cycling, so I think so far so good!

[BubbleTrouble]

4 hours ago, less than bread said:

The only sure way to tell it's ready is by dosing ammonia and then testing to make sure your tank processes it. The method you described is exactly how I cycle my tanks though. Very simple, just takes a bit of waiting, no testing. After 1 month I add fish, never had a problem. The thing to remember about this method is do not have any filtration going that could impede the microbacter and no water changes. After 1 month, do a water change, add filtration and fish. Is this crucial? I don't know, it just made sense in my mind to take all filtration out during the cycle

I've had the filtration going from the Fluval 13.5g set up, other people suggested leaving it in to collect bacteria. You think that will be okay?

[less than bread]

Just now, BubbleTrouble said:

I've had the filtration going from the Fluval 13.5g set up, other people suggested leaving it in to collect bacteria. You think that will be okay?

I guess it depends what kind of filtration. If it's bio balls or some other material that is made to collect bacteria, then absolutely leave it, yes. Sorry, forgot about that stuff. I only run filtration media meant to remove nutrients.

[BubbleTrouble]

10 minutes ago, less than bread said:

I guess it depends what kind of filtration. If it's bio balls or some other material that is made to collect bacteria, then absolutely leave it, yes. Sorry, forgot about that stuff. I only run filtration media meant to remove nutrients.

Foam filter, carbon, and biomax! no protein filter running, that is waiting for the fish to go in

[Tired]

Dip sticks often aren't super accurate. You'll want to upgrade your test kit at some point. Particularly phosphate- the amount of phosphate we want in our reefs is somewhere between 0.03ppm and about 0.2ppm (though higher can be fine), so we need accurate phosphate kits to get a proper number on that.

 

You may not need a protein skimmer. Those are good for if you're trying to deal with excess nutrients, but in some tanks, they can end up taking out stuff that the corals will use. You may want to hold off on one for awhile, and only add it if needed. 

[BubbleTrouble]

42 minutes ago, Tired said:

Dip sticks often aren't super accurate. You'll want to upgrade your test kit at some point. Particularly phosphate- the amount of phosphate we want in our reefs is somewhere between 0.03ppm and about 0.2ppm (though higher can be fine), so we need accurate phosphate kits to get a proper number on that.

 

You may not need a protein skimmer. Those are good for if you're trying to deal with excess nutrients, but in some tanks, they can end up taking out stuff that the corals will use. You may want to hold off on one for awhile, and only add it if needed. 

I have the red seas test kit which is used every week ish, and dip sticks just to ease my mind! My protein skimmer isn't in yet because people said it wasn't needed for the cycle, unless you think I should put it in now? I'm new so I'm down for any advice!!

[seabass]

57 minutes ago, BubbleTrouble said:

My protein skimmer isn't in yet because people said it wasn't needed for the cycle, unless you think I should put it in now?

IMO, protein skimmers don't remove nutrients, they remove organics (before they can be broken down into nutrients).  There is thoughts that they might remove some iodine, but I don't believe that's usually a problem (and shouldn't require iodide supplements).  As for running during a cycle or not, I'd say you can set it up whenever you wish.  It'll take a little bit for it to break in, which it can do during the cycle.

 

I wouldn't run a skimmer right after dosing nitrifying bacteria; but other than that, your cycle will continue to progress (with or without a skimmer).

[BubbleTrouble]

7 minutes ago, seabass said:

I wouldn't run a skimmer right after dosing nitrifying bacteria; but other than that, your cycle will continue to progress (with or without a skimmer).

Okay sweet, I'll put it in next week, because I am getting fish the week after! Your explanation is a lot of help

[brandon429]

Can you post a full tank picture of your reef please so we can see living rock details, skip cycle details if any

 

 

At the top of this thread you mentioned live rock but in another post you'd mentioned adding dead rock..a pic often clears things up, shows ratios etc

[BubbleTrouble]

On 6/16/2022 at 11:39 AM, brandon429 said:

Can you post a full tank picture of your reef please so we can see living rock details, skip cycle details if any

 

 

At the top of this thread you mentioned live rock but in another post you'd mentioned adding dead rock..a pic often clears things up, shows ratios etc

It has live rock and some dead rock, and cycled with microbacter7 🙂 The more orange rock were live from the fish store.

[Rabb.D]

nice scape... the live rock is always a good thing and so is starter bacteria, i practically don't measure nor do test kits but i think you are going down the right route

[brandon429]

Very nice looking setup.  this is a skip cycle tank. If you only had a ping pong ball sized live rock it wouldn’t be, but that’s just shy of half your scape as skip cycle live rock.

 

reduced live rock scapes are common; they exist because even a small degree of live rock runs a whole reef bioload, we only think it’s lacking because peers trained us to expect a full display of live rock as the bare minimum. All forum peers train each other to fear a cycle at every single phase and never be resolved about a start date, it’s directly on file in the link below. Fear rules the masses in cycle threads

 

but convention invitees, those asked to bring fifty thousand dollars in live animals + a full reef tank started in one day, know a different ruleset than hesitant forum peers.

 

 

Reef convention invitees use exact start date cycling, with live rock transfer setups.

 

 

We would adjust # of wait days underwater if you weren’t using half your scape as skip cycle live rock from a pet store, pigmented as it should be and clearly standout in the pic above.

 

 

it’s not true that transferring live rocks among tanks causes a mini cycle, that’s api again but not truth. If it did, no reef convention could have ran the last 25 years of reef tank conventions 

 

mini cycling is a better fitting term for ocean cured rock cycles, not pet store cured rocks. Those are ready, and instantly skip cycle as a core rule in reefing and conventions and owning and running a fish store. Api always showing .25 for most testers, and those testers not reading the included kit directions for nh3 conversion before typing “help, my reef ammonia is at .25” is the cause of the false mini cycle viewpoint in reefing.

 

 

If u add fish now they live, if you wait and add fish in two mos, they live the same, and the confusing readings coming up from api will make you think your cycle is stalled, 100% bet.

 

If you want peace of mind, never test for ammonia or nitrite again on this tank as it’s start date has passed.

 

most will ignore that:

 

and test anyway

 

 

for weeks

 

self torture, lol, ignoring what I’m saying the whole time, as panic sets in and peers reinforce it.

 

*if you cease testing for ammonia and nitrite right now, because you used enough live rock transfer- and instead focus on fish disease preps before adding your fish you are practicing the most updated cycling science available

 

You can begin researching fish disease preps, lack thereof is the real killer of fish. The cycle does not kill fish, we can see in any forum thread…it’s months delayed disease onset even if the owner waits for full zero ammonia and full zero nitrite on api.

 

fish disease plans and preps are what keep your fish alive, waiting longer to add them into the tank won’t have any factor.

 

 

 

 

the way you know how many fish to add is based on your disease control plan, readiness of the biolofiter is not in question based on ratios seen in the pics above.

 

 

[BubbleTrouble]

13 hours ago, Rabb.D said:

nice scape... the live rock is always a good thing and so is starter bacteria, i practically don't measure nor do test kits but i think you are going down the right route

Thanks! When I went to the local fish store, the guy started grilling me on the test parameters before he would let me buy a snail so that made things more difficult lol. However levels are good and obviously water must be okay!!

[BubbleTrouble]

4 hours ago, brandon429 said:

""

Okay, with taking in all that info - tank should be inhabitable now and safe for fish eh? I have checked the levels on my Red Sea test kits and everything was in safe bounds, and I plan on a good water change before I get the 2 clowns in there.

 

I will get going on researching fish disease preps! Any advice locked in your sleeve as of introducing a coral or two when I put in the clowns?

[brandon429]

It will work for sure bc we build pico reefs that carry over a thousand  in corals (tiny frags packed in $80-300$ see Maritza the vase reef YouTube for an example) using that much live rock on day one.

 

 

 

you’ve added even extra dilution to the setup than we would, by using a larger tank than a pico it will work if you are using a light proven to grow corals + quality feed and regular water changes to export, before the invasions set in. Run lights less power than you were inclined, too bright is reason for lots of early invasions and new corals don’t need blasted in light they prefer strong feed and medium power blue lighting.

 

if you read all fish disease posts from humble fish I believe this is a fair condensed summary:

 

there are lengthy reads available for fallow and quarantine preps, considered the top method nowadays for disease identification and prevention in the main display. If you want top tier fish command, that’s the way, studying those details before you add stock to the tank even though it’s ready for stock. There are stepped and divided means of housing and identifying potentially diseased fish within the realm of disease preps before stocking. Any humblefish post in signature has links that lead directly to his studies. 

 

nano-reef.com is a twenty year treasure trove of clownfish in nanos, it always works 🙂 and we can see by and large no preps beyond ammonia control and nitrite control were factored by the keepers. There’s something about two clowns and a goby most tanks can handle we see

 

 

but start adding mixed species from pet store: fish dead in eight months on average by one of four common maladies in unprepped systems. Even the rate of disease expression posts are increasing here at nr.com following in trend with  reefing in general nowadays 

[Tired]

Corals have basically no bio-load, certainly not anything notable at frag size. You'll want to pick something hardy, just in case, but there's plenty of soft corals that would work great. 

 

The best way to keep fish disease out of your tank is to quarantine new fish, or buy pre-quarantined fish. Not from LiveAquaria's Diver's Den section- they claim they sell disease-free fish, but they don't. 

 

Sounds like you've got a pretty good fish store, if they care whether the snails live! That's a very good sign.

 

You should expect to see algae. All that bare white rock is prime real estate, so all the algaes that thrive on bare, un-colonized rock are going to have a party. Just ignore them. Don't put any corals on those rocks for a bit, ideally. Algae is harmless unless it's smothering corals or using up all your nutrients, so, unless it's doing that, go ahead and let it have a party. As the rock matures, provided you stock an appropriate cleanup crew, that fast-growing, opportunistic pest algae will gradually fade out and be replaced by much more cooperative algae. Your live rock (if it's proper live rock, not just dry rock the store put in a bucket for a couple months) will have much less pest algae, if any, since it should already have stuff living on it. Though I don't see any coraline on it, so you can probably expect algae there as well.