Skimmer question ... expectations adding skimmer / nutrients?

[Jakesaw]

I'm a frustrated reefer teetering on going FOWLR or getting out of hobby ( DINO / Bubble algae ).  Not looking for advice to fix my tank issue - but I would like a bit more information on what my expectations should be with adding a skimmer in terms of nutrients in water.  Worst case scenario, I could get happier fish in a FOWLR.

 

I found a reasonably priced HOB nano skimmer

 

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EDIT I Purchased with different Skimmer than OP and am updating this post for anybody following topic - Purchased 

 

AQUATICLIFE 115 Mini Internal Protein Skimmer/Filter

 

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I know most aquariums that have corals and fish run a skimmer.  I think I know they use bubbles to attach to and remove dissolved organics from water / aerate the water / and make for cleaner water quality overall while lowering nitrates / phosphates.  

 

If I go FOWLR and get rid of reef light, would not be an issue, but I may try to keep up the coral stuff now or as a future attempt.

 

My specific Skimmer questions

 

Will adding a skimmer instantly drop my Nitrate / Phos to really low levels even if I dirty feed the tank a bit?  

Will it drop nutrients over time so the feeding of food will be negligible as skimmer removes nutrient before breakdown into Nitrate / Phos?

If I keep reef direction, will I have to start feeding things like reef roids or other supplements to make up for low nutrients in water?

Will I need to dose Nitrate / Phos to make up for low levels in tank from Skimmer ?

When adding protein skimmer, do reefers need to go to supplements like reef roids to make up for lowered nutrient in water?

 

My main tank goals is to keep things simple moving forward

 

Thanks

[seabass]

• Will adding a skimmer instantly drop my Nitrate / Phos to really low levels even if I dirty feed the tank a bit?  I'm a pretty big believer in using protein skimmers.  However, besides exporting organics before they get broken down, they don't directly lower inorganic nutrient levels.  Also, they won't remove detritus on the rocks and substrate.
• Will it drop nutrients over time so the feeding of food will be negligible as skimmer removes nutrient before breakdown into Nitrate / Phos?  As you suggest, it can remove organics from the water column prior to having it break down.  But if you are talking about food, then it's just removing food that you purchased to feed your livestock.  It's actually more effective at removing dissolved wastes.
• If I keep reef direction, will I have to start feeding things like reef roids or other supplements to make up for low nutrients in water?  These foods will raise nutrients (especially phosphate).  However, I wouldn't ever overfeed on purpose in order to raise inorganic nutrient levels.  You will be much better off not overfeeding.
• Will I need to dose Nitrate / Phos to make up for low levels in tank from Skimmer ?  If truly a FOWLR (with no photosynthetic inverts), then you don't need to maintain the same levels of nitrate and phosphate.  Again, your skimmer will improve water quality (similar to activated carbon), but won't directly lower inorganic nutrient levels.
• When adding protein skimmer, do reefers need to go to supplements... to make up for lowered nutrient in water?  Usually no.  About the only element which might be in question is iodine.  There are claims that skimmers can remove iodine from the water.  Although iodide supplements aren't usually necessary due to running a skimmer.

 

1 hour ago, Jakesaw said:

My main tank goals is to keep things simple moving forward

I believe that a skimmer will be a good investment for a FOWLR (or reef tank).  I'm not aware if that particular model is good or not, but even an inefficient skimmer will provide some benefit.  I believe that, in general, in sump skimmers tend to be superior.

[Jakesaw]

22 minutes ago, seabass said:

I believe that, in general, in sump skimmers tend to be superior.

1 year in - Still evaluating the hobby ( for myself ) on smaller scale.  Sump is likely not in my plans over the next 12 months.  But I do intend  to go from 10 to 20L or 29 after I nuke my bubble algae with Vibrant iwhether I go FOWLR or Reef.  

[seabass]

For a HOB piece of equipment, you could go with a skimmer, or you could use activated carbon in a filter.  If buying a new tank, you might even consider an AIO (which could potentially run a skimmer and/or activated carbon.  If interested in a 20 gallon long, and also like the idea of an AIO, then I believe there are AIO inserts which might fit the bill.

[Jakesaw]

I found a Less Expensive skimmer  that I put in tank today.  No instructions on setup, and I was a bit skeptical when I first tried to get it dialed in, but a few hours later, it seems to be already pulling in skim.  My GSP is out fuller than it has been in a long time. 

 

Interested to see how this develops over time.  May have been something that needed to be purchased a long time ago.  We'll see. 

[Jakesaw]

Here's my first day of Skim ( still in break in / adjustment period )

 

 

Guessing skim is a little wet.... ???

 

Maybe I needed Skimmer more than I had anticipated.  Perhaps a big factor in my Bubble algae breakout.  I'll be observing the tank and it's inhabitants the next week or few to see how everything responds. 

 

Any informed  thoughts ( from reefers who use a skimmer ) on 16 hrs of skim in that cup are appreciated

 

Thanks.

 

[Jakesaw]

On 6/9/2022 at 11:32 AM, seabass said:

 If interested in a 20 gallon long, and also like the idea of an AIO, then I believe there are AIO inserts which might fit the bill.

I've seen those at BRS and been interested in them in the past, but feel I'd be giving up horizontal swim and display space.  That it wouldn't be much larger than my current 10 gal display tank after that insert.  

 

I'm a Budget fish guy so going to stick with 1 dollar per gallon sizes.  I've got 20L, 29 and 40 B that are available to use.  Been keeping thing small and manageable as I learn what works and what doesn't.  As I gain confidence in my skills I'd feel more comfortable going a big larger. 

[seabass]

Some skimmers aren't very capable of producing a dark skimmate.  But that doesn't render them ineffective.  The only real difference is that you are removing a little more water.  If you simply replace with freshwater (like just letting an ATO refill your tank), the salinity will continue to get slightly weaker over time.  Just be aware and adjust if necessary.

 

Not having a skimmer might have created a few challenges, but it didn't cause your bubble algae.  Once introduced, bubble algae is hard to get rid of, and few herbivores (besides Emerald crabs) tend to eat it.  Even when Emerald crabs are eating it, bubble algae tends to spread.

 

Vibrant has a good track record for getting rid of bubble algae.  However, I had a bad experience with Vibrant, and would hesitate to put it in my tank again.

 

I once had a tank full of bubble algae.  I ended up fragging off pieces of rock which contained it, until it was gone.  I even tossed a couple of coral frags because I was done dealing with it.  Now I'm super careful about introducing new frags that contain bubble algae.

 

Back to your skimmer,  I think weak tea colored skimmate is perfectly fine.  Not sure if you can adjust that darker or not.  I'm guessing that the higher you place the skimmer above the waterline, the darker the skimmate will become.  Actually, I wasn't aware these were so cheap.  Based on what I see here, I went ahead and ordered one for myself. 👍

[Jakesaw]

1 hour ago, seabass said:

Even when Emerald crabs are eating it, bubble algae tends to spread

That is my current experience.  Bubbles are getting eaten, but colonies are spreading.  Not good

 

** lights came on and Water is as clear as it's been in a VERY LONG TIME **

 

 

1 hour ago, seabass said:

Vibrant has a good track record for getting rid of bubble algae.  However, I had a bad experience with Vibrant, and would hesitate to put it in my tank again.

I picked up a bottle with my skimmer.  I've been hesitant to try it, but I need the stuff out of my aquarium.  It's the only proven way I've seen to kill the stuff off - even though I'm aware of the possible downsides. ( DINO / CYANO )  Still not committed to try, but probably will after getting a bit more familiar with this new skimmer.  Don't want too many changes at same time

 

1 hour ago, seabass said:

 

I once had a tank full of bubble algae.  I ended up fragging off pieces of rock which contained it, until it was gone.  I even tossed a couple of coral frags because I was done dealing with it.  Now I'm super careful about introducing new frags that contain bubble algae.

That's my directional intent to either kill off BA, or scrap and start over with new rock again.  I really don't want to get rid of a year of maturity, but I DO NOT want to deal with the BA in perpetuity.   My investment in rock / frags has been mnimal so I can walk away from them,, but I would rather save what I can if possible.  Not to detriment of future outbreaks though. 

 

If I start over, I'll be fish only and QT anything that goes in my tank moving forward - Reef or otherwise.  I feel I've learned alot of reefing in this 1 year.  I still have much more to learn.  Baby steps

 

 

1 hour ago, seabass said:

Back to your skimmer,  I think weak tea colored skimmate is perfectly fine.  Not sure if you can adjust that darker or not.  I'm guessing that the higher you place the skimmer above the waterline, the darker the skimmate will become

Thanks for feedback

 

The height adjustment on My tank was a bit limited and I took some water out because of it, but I have some ideas to maybe shim clip in future if I want to raise the skimmer a bit.  We'll see. 

 

 It seems dialed in well for now.  Yesterday Microbubbles everywhere - today almost not noticeable.  I would like to raise water level - but it is working, and I have my first experience with a skimmer on the cheap!

 

GOOD LUCK

[seabass]

6 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

That's my directional intent to either kill off BA, or scrap and start over with new rock again.  I really don't want to get rid of a year of maturity, but I DO NOT want to deal with the BA in perpetuity.   My investment in rock / frags has been minimal so I can walk away from them,, but I would rather save what I can if possible.  Not to the detriment of future outbreaks though. 

I had turf algae once so bad that I cycled a bunch of new rock, fragged the surviving corals off of the rocks, then swapped the old rock with the new.  Not that it was best way, but I had to get rid of that frustration.  I feel that you are currently in the same frame of mind.

 

If there is any unaffected rock, you might choose to use it to help seed any new rock.  If using dry rock, use the fishless cycling method to build up a biofilter prior to using it:

• dose ammonium chloride up to 2 ppm of ammonia
• wait for the ammonia level to drop to 0.25 ppm
• repeat until your rock can process 2 ppm down to 0.25 ppm within 24 hours

[Jakesaw]

2 hours ago, seabass said:

If there is any unaffected rock, you might choose to use it to help seed any new rock.  If using dry rock, use the fishless cycling method to build up a biofilter prior to using it:

My 4 main Rock pieces are BA infested.  I have a smaller 1" x 4" piece in the sand that has no visible signs of BA.  I'd be afraid to bring it into new system as my entire tank is so infssted..  Sometimes biodiversity ain't worth it.  

[Jakesaw]

I'm a few days in and pretty happy with the skimmer so far.  Pulling about 2/3 of a cup fill out per day.  Every morning my tank is clear and i've stil got some dino forming throughout the day.  

 

Raised my Nutrients via dosing so I'm hoping that will slowly kill off the DINO.  

 

The Skim is pretty wet -and seems to pull more skim at night. The skim is consistently to my posted pic up above.  I smelled the cup today before dumping - NASTY.  Good to get that stuff out of tank.  Now hoping some of my unhappy corals come back to vibrance 

 

[PeterU]

Use the adjustment knob to lower the bubble column a bit. The should make the consistency darker and less wet.

Unless I have it backwards and you should go the other way, lol.

[Jakesaw]

Been a few weeks and started a weekly dose of Vibrant.  The skim is still wet, but fulling up slower - from daily fill - to every 2nd or 3rd day and the skim is about twice as dark.  Could be from from algae die off waset in my tank or the skimmer is finally broken in. 

 

I do have to test SG more often and sometimes top off with saltwater from the wet skim removal - but its not a big deal. 

 

My ( limited experience ) take is - it works pretty well for a cheapo skimmer.    Small collection cup . it sits in the tank instead of outside - and height adjustment is limited / skims a bit wet.  But For my first skimmer experience at low price - it works and my water quality has greatly improved.  The skimmer is rated for up to 30 gallons so I can use it on an upgrade or frag tank as needed.  

 

I do look forward to having a larger tank / skimmer down the road with a bit more adjustability to run drier skim and less cup emptying.  But I was never going to plunk down investment on skimmer without experiencing it's benefits first.  -

 

Forever Budget Reefer !!!

[Jakesaw]

Update on skimmer.  It's still skimming wet, but pulling much less water out.  Here is my skimmer after about 3 days of skim.   The skim has darkened more than my initial skim color.   I have running 24/7 but sometimes it looks like it's doing nothing with no visible bubbles - other times it looks like the photo I just took.  Don't quite understand why this is, but sharing my experience with this model of skimmer.  

 

Initially, It seemed like i was going to have to empty daily, but that has changed over time.  Every couple of days seems to be the current schedule for empty / clean cup.   If it ever overflows it'll be back in tank so can't cause a mess outside of tank.

 

 

 

 

[seabass]

1 hour ago, Jakesaw said:

sometimes it looks like it's doing nothing with no visible bubbles - other times it looks like the photo I just took

Any number of things can cause the skimmer to react.  Could be something spawning in the tank, could be due to feeding, or even dosing something.  Some things might cause it to skim more, and others, to skim less.  I suppose (since it's in the display), that a changing waterline could also have some effect.

 

But it looks like its job.  I'd be happy with what it's doing.  I got mine, but haven't put it in a tank yet.

[Jakesaw]

37 minutes ago, seabass said:

I suppose (since it's in the display), that a changing waterline could also have some effect.

 

I top off tank once a day at night.  

 

For the price i'm happy to have my first skimmer.  I think it's definitely benefiting my tank water and was needed a long time ago. 

 

I'm also sure there are better options ( at a much higher cost ) for a skimmer.  I've been checking out the OCTO HOB options and their large skim cup has no drainage overflow / the Aquamaxx looks pretty good but looks like parts would be unavailable if a pump broke.  Maybe sump / internal skimmer - but that seems beyond my experience / needs right now.

 

My only real gripe is attaching the cup you need to firmly compress it onto a square rim and it's a bit snug - cup fits tight.  Not a big deal for me but I think there are better ways to attach cup.   It is kindof limited in adjustments as well.

 

I will likely upgrade at some point when I go larger, but this one will probably be around for a good while in some form being used as well.

 

It does pull skim

[Kindanewtothis]

On 6/9/2022 at 12:16 PM, Jakesaw said:

1 year in - Still evaluating the hobby ( for myself ) on smaller scale.  Sump is likely not in my plans over the next 12 months.  But I do intend  to go from 10 to 20L or 29 after I nuke my bubble algae with Vibrant iwhether I go FOWLR or Reef.  

Why not go with a small tonze skimmer ?

 

 

Forget about it, I see that you eventually got a skimmer.

[Jakesaw]

Had my first cleaning of skimmer today.  Noise was a bit loud the other day.  Seems some bubble algae and crud had formed inside skimmer.  Pretty easy to take apart and clean.  It's held together by the 2 clamps on back of unit. 

 

With the shell split in half easy to access every area of the inside for mechanical cleaning with brush or cloth. 

 

Back in tank to original sound - with some new microbubbles again.  Just another quick break in period - good as new.

 

EDIT : FYI - there is a tiny black plastic washer at bottom of Impeller motor housing that can slip out when rinsing in a sink.  That sucker can go down the drain before you see it - don't ask me how I know...    

[Jakesaw]

I think I killed the skimmer.  It was doing it's normal gurgle from the air hole and I felt adventuresome.  Removed the black hose & the connector from case.  Drilled a hole and ran clear plastic line through hole.  Assembled skimmer and it's not pulling the bubbles in that it used to.  ( I figured from restrictive air so I cut some line - nope - cut some more - still lacking bubbles.  )

 

Took apart and the motor blade is running sluggish.  I don't know if this happened on it's own and that's the noise I initially heard that led to my deep clean.  Or if I somehow borked it during my MOD. 

 

Had good skim before Project - no bubbles since Mod.-- Dag nabbit  

 

All the parts seem to be there, I just have a rattling when I run the motor with impeller in it - even out of the tank.  Makes no sense to me.  I'm back to a skimmer free tank at the moment

[Jakesaw]

After examining all my parts this evening, the thing should work, so I took one more go at it.  Assembled everything with secured tubing and parts all seated where they should be and how they should be within skimmer shell.

 

Skimmer appears to be working again.  Will see how skim looks in morning.

[seabass]

Could be the pump.  Cheap skimmer equals cheap pump.  You could try soaking it in a vinegar solution.

 

You're right about the air intake on skimmers.  They often get restricted by mineral deposits and stop skimming.  I haven't taken mine out of the box yet, but make sure that the intake is unobstructed.  You might have to soak parts in vinegar to dissolve any accumulated build-up.

[Jakesaw]

Been a bit over a week and the skimmer is working as good or better than new, getting a big darker skim and zero noise since I got the MOD working properly.  Basically replaced the black tube and carefully broke & drilled out vent hole in drill press.   Got airline connected where black tube went and left a good bit of excess to pull air far out from designed location at top of pump.  

 

Got rid of all gurgling noises.  Device is quiet as can be.

[Tamberav]

Got any photos of the mod you did?

[Jakesaw]

Project Pics 1 of 2 

 

Not full start to finish - but big pieces in middle of project.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This part is attached to top of case via plastic fitting in skimmer body.  I detaced tube and carefully broke roff fitting inside and drilled out the hole in drill press after testing a couple bit sizes for airline. 

 

Removed black hose.

 

 

Fitting I carefully snapped out from inside of Skimmer housing.  i was trying to push it out, but it broke off and I gather it's part of the body and not separate part pressed into body

 

 

 

Drilled out properly fitted hose for airline after drilling a few holes into PVC pipe I had in basement to test fit diffferent sized bits. I didn't record bit size used.