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Anybody gone from Reef to FOWLR and been happy with the hobby


Jakesaw

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My little slice of reef went from enjoyable to a headache and source of stressful annoyance with DINO and bubble algae lingering.  WIth other things in my life, I have lost interest in trying to learn the coral side.  

 

I'll always have fish tanks, and I can abandon SW for FW or go FOWLR turning off reef light for now to maybe explore that at a different time in the future.  I'm really looking for a simplified way to enjoy the tank without all the heaaches of managing a fragile environment being forced to learn new things when I have other obligations that are more important to me.

 

I really enjoyed my small reef when it was going well, but after watching some of the BRS videos, I'm really leaning toward the reef life is an expensive hobby I'm not interested in opening up the wallet to or have a large fish tank to support.   Smaller systems seem more prone to have challenges particularly for the new to hobby. 

 

Thinking I'll probably get a little bigger tank and another fish or three if I go FOWLR

 

Anyone else traveled my intended path.  How'd it go?

 

 

 

 

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I've all but given up on buying new coral.  Buying fish is bad enough (haven't done that in awhile either).  Things were going alright for me until I got sucked into trying Vibrant.  After that I was basically in the same boat as you (cyano, dinos, dying coral, etc).  It's hard to get stoked about something that looks unhealthy and doesn't seem to respond no matter how much work you put into it.  Finally pulled the sand bed and let everything go through its ugly stages.  Things have finally turned around.

 

As far as your situation goes, I feel that whatever you feel like keeping, that's what you should do.  If freshwater is your thing, there is nothing wrong with that.  FOWLR is perfectly acceptable too.  I've debated setting up a FOWLR tank with non-reef-safe fish.  You could go with artificial coral, or go the macroalgae route.  But the thing about keeping a FOWLR with reef-safe fish, is that you can add corals anytime you feel like it.

 

I've learned a long time ago that buying expensive coral and fish isn't for me.  There are plenty of different fish (and even coral) that are economically priced.  It's more satisfying to me to use common specimens than to blow money on expensive livestock (trying to keep up with the Jones').  After all, we are doing this for ourselves, not for likes on social media.

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32 minutes ago, seabass said:

I've all but given up on buying new coral.  Buying fish is bad enough (haven't done that in awhile either).  Things were going alright for me until I got sucked into trying Vibrant.  After that I was basically in the same boat as you (cyano, dinos, dying coral, etc).

 

But the thing about keeping a FOWLR with reef-safe fish, is that you can add corals anytime you feel like it.

 

The reef aspect is very interesting part of the hobby.  But when I watched the BRS 5 minute series, I saw in his  Q & A

1 )  Is this hobby expensive - 

-- YES - average spend first year is 1,000 dollars and 2 - 3k the next year. 

 

2) Is this hobby hard -

-- Yes - it's the most difficult pet to keep

 

3) Tank size 

-- Minimum 40 gal - b/c alot of the difficult issues can be solved by livestock like tangs eating all kinds of algaes that can minimize some of the trouble issues. 

 

---

Those 3 would probably have kept me out of Reef hobby if I had considered them a bit more.

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fenderchamp

I guess I’ve never really taken BRS videos too seriously.  I’m also a noob and have yet to buy a fish and only have a couple picos.  I’ve also never had an algae problem.  All of what I’ve done I’ve got from Nano reef threads, much of it from Brandon’s reef bowl threads and advice.  My tanks are both small enough to completely tear down and reassemble in <hour too.  And I’m doing nothing fancy and really buying small cheap frags and watching them grow

 

salt water fish and ick and all dietary challenges scare me more than corals as big tanks scare me more than tiny ones, that’s where I’m at now.

1 hour ago, Jakesaw said:

The reef aspect is very interesting part of the hobby.  But when I watched the BRS 5 minute series, I saw in his  Q & A

1 )  Is this hobby expensive - 

-- YES - average spend first year is 1,000 dollars and 2 - 3k the next year. 

 

2) Is this hobby hard -

-- Yes - it's the most difficult pet to keep

 

3) Tank size 

-- Minimum 40 gal - b/c alot of the difficult issues can be solved by livestock like tangs eating all kinds of algaes that can minimize some of the trouble issues. 

 

---

Those 3 would probably have kept me out of Reef hobby if I had considered them a bit more.

 

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Going FOWLR is more or less the route that I have taken with my Lionfish Lair, I admit that I have a couple of softies in the tank (Mushroom Corals, Xenia etc and possibly some Macroalgae to go with the Mangroves) but it is far more focussed on the Lionfish and actively seeking another to complete my stocking (well apart from the feeders), I did enjoy the reefing and coral aspect of the tanks but in all honesty I prefer the corals in a smaller tank as I find the water quality easier to manage in anything sub 5 gallons (so that a 100% water change is possible in an hour max).

 

 

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debbeach13

Any hobby including this one should be fun. There are more complications since this hobby is alive! Right now, with everything getting so expensive some people have had to get out of the hobby entirely. I think you could be very happy with a fowler tank. Plus, as already stated you can always add a couple corals if you ever want to.

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Snow_Phoenix

At one stage, my 60G was a FOWLR-dragonet tank (with other fish too!). I was quite content, although I always had the itch to try corals again. I just realized that I couldn't keep up with running a full-blown large reeftank like some of those wonderful setups you see on Insta and such. Nanoreefs at <10G I could still manage. Anything above that and this hobby was turning from excitement to pure hell for me. 😕

 

Going FOWLR was interesting, but the fish can be a drawback too - especially when/if they get sick. I took my fish losses a lot harder than my coral losses in this hobby. And at many points, I did consider giving up and stop keeping anything SW because it took a steep toll on my mental health. 

 

Given that fish are now more *delicate and expensive than before, going FOWLR might be a bit tricky at first. I'm not sure what your options over there are like, but over here, everything (except clowns and a few other odd fish) is wild-caught, and the fish come in with a *lot of parasites and diseases. If you can get a hold of healthy fish, or are willing to QT any new fish, I'd say go for it. :happy:

 

If the fish are healthy, then going FOWLR will be less stressful than keeping a large reeftank stocked with corals. Also, I find fish more forgiving than corals when it comes to WCs, so I can stretch out my WCs to weeks if needed - especially if I'm unwell. Just my two cents. 

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45 minutes ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

Also, I find fish more forgiving than corals when it comes to WCs, so I can stretch out my WCs to weeks if needed - especially if I'm unwell. Just my two cents. 

I don't mind WC - always done them with FW tanks ( except for dirted planted tanks )

 

With the Reef - My habits never settled as I started weekly then biweekly til I learned my nutrients were bottomed out and never really settled on a period between too frequent and not frequent enough.  Too much variability without a predictable cookie cutter method for my life today. 

 

I haven't thrown in towel yet, but that's my direction mentally. 

 

With LR, can I just cold turkey cut off reef lights and keep fish in there, or will I get die off causing water problems from the photosynthetic algaes and stuff in there?

 

 

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19 hours ago, Jakesaw said:

The reef aspect is very interesting part of the hobby.  But when I watched the BRS 5 minute series, I saw in his  Q & A

1 )  Is this hobby expensive - 

-- YES - average spend first year is 1,000 dollars and 2 - 3k the next year. 

Anything can be expensive, complicated or unsuccessful.  I'm as leery of advice in videos as I am of anything online.

 

I think simplifying – doing less – is an option that most folks leave on the table....in favor of gunning for "the tank they saw online."

 

Doing only fish (via FOWLR) is one way to do less.  Doing only coral is another way.

 

In my estimation, corals are much simpler and easier than fish....if you were picking between one or the other.

 

By comparison, doing fish AND corals simultaneously is much more complicated.

 

19 hours ago, Jakesaw said:

2) Is this hobby hard -

-- Yes - it's the most difficult pet to keep

This is where you have to be wary of your source....it may be the most difficult if you do it their prescribed way.  Their way should simply not be your way.

 

Remember that corals are plants in many significant ways.  

 

Houseplants are considered one of the easier things to take care of....at least in my experience corals are MUCH easier than houseplants.  (I do both...or attempt to.)

 

19 hours ago, Jakesaw said:

3) Tank size 

-- Minimum 40 gal - b/c alot of the difficult issues can be solved by livestock like tangs eating all kinds of algaes that can minimize some of the trouble issues. 

 

---

Those 3 would probably have kept me out of Reef hobby if I had considered them a bit more.

The cost isn't "cheap" if you go all-in for an RODI filter as well as a full reef.....but the operating costs can be VERY low....on par with freshwater IMO.  You just have to design accordingly if that's your priority.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

I haven't thrown in towel yet, but that's my direction mentally. 

There's nothing wrong with knowing when you're done!!!

 

 

But also know there are other ways besides the conventional route....and see if any of those are interesting enough to warrant more experimenting in the reef.

 

For one thing, don't look at algae as "ugly" anymore.  "Algae = Ugly" is conventional thinking that leads to A LOT of expense and bother for lots of folks....mostly with very little payoff in the end.

 

Corals and fish all more or less appreciate algae, even while competing with them.  There's no need for us to feel differently. 😉 

 

18 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

With LR, can I just cold turkey cut off reef lights and keep fish in there, or will I get die off causing water problems from the photosynthetic algaes and stuff in there?

If present conditions are reasonably good, there should be no problem.

 

Once signs of algae are gone you should move your cleanup crew elsewhere...or there will be die off.

 

Consider going coral-only!   That's how I started the hobby, and how I kept my system for almost ten years.  Very little work (fragging, fragging, fragging....refill the doser....repeat), and very little expense – even considering dosing requirements for stony corals.  Of course there was a little more to my strategy than just not buying fish...it was (and still is) essentially a "Berlin-style" reef.  Start with that simple baseline, and go coral-only.  $0.02

 

-Matt

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1 hour ago, Jakesaw said:

With LR, can I just cold turkey cut off reef lights and keep fish in there, or will I get die off causing water problems from the photosynthetic algaes and stuff in there?

  I'd think that you might want to remove the algae, or else it might release its nutrients (and organics) back into the water.

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55 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Anything can be expensive, complicated or unsuccessful.  I'm as leery of advice in videos as I am of anything online.

 

I think simplifying – doing less – is an option that most folks leave on the table....in favor of gunning for "the tank they saw online."

 

Doing only fish (via FOWLR) is one way to do less.  Doing only coral is another way.

 

In my estimation, corals are much simpler and easier than fish....if you were picking between one or the other.

 

By comparison, doing fish AND corals simultaneously is much more complicated.

 

This is where you have to be wary of your source....it may be the most difficult if you do it their prescribed way.  Their way should simply not be your way.

 

Remember that corals are plants in many significant ways.  

 

Houseplants are considered one of the easier things to take care of....at least in my experience corals are MUCH easier than houseplants.  (I do both...or attempt to.)

 

The cost isn't "cheap" if you go all-in for an RODI filter as well as a full reef.....but the operating costs can be VERY low....on par with freshwater IMO.  You just have to design accordingly if that's your priority.

 

 

There's nothing wrong with knowing when you're done!!!

 

 

But also know there are other ways besides the conventional route....and see if any of those are interesting enough to warrant more experimenting in the reef.

 

For one thing, don't look at algae as "ugly" anymore.  "Algae = Ugly" is conventional thinking that leads to A LOT of expense and bother for lots of folks....mostly with very little payoff in the end.

 

Corals and fish all more or less appreciate algae, even while competing with them.  There's no need for us to feel differently. 😉 

 

If present conditions are reasonably good, there should be no problem.

 

Once signs of algae are gone you should move your cleanup crew elsewhere...or there will be die off.

 

Consider going coral-only!   That's how I started the hobby, and how I kept my system for almost ten years.  Very little work (fragging, fragging, fragging....refill the doser....repeat), and very little expense – even considering dosing requirements for stony corals.  Of course there was a little more to my strategy than just not buying fish...it was (and still is) essentially a "Berlin-style" reef.  Start with that simple baseline, and go coral-only.  $0.02

 

-Matt

I am toying with separating Fish and Corals.  I think trying to learn coral and water parameters complicates the fish aspect. 

 

Maybe if I was more versed with 

 

Algae doesn't bother me - just the bubble variety I have growing uncontrollably in my tank.  I first noticed it on one frag and it spread slowly and became an infestation over time.  It's on every rock and my powerhead - intake for HOB filter, etc.  I can do a deep clean with vinegar on powerhead and by the weeks end, I've got a few new bubbles growing on the powerhead again.

 

Bubble algae + DINO are what's done me in.  

 

I need to raise my nutrients to about double where i am at to get rid of dino and the Bubble Algae will likely accellerate ( and it's already a hot mess where I remove a full filter pad daily )

 

I'm told naturally to overfeed tank, but with old sand and and dissolved organics in a 10 gal, - these are the things that have been needling at me with tank.  2 problems with the opposing solution prescriptions.  And I really don't know if either WILL WORK or when.  Plus being a budget reefer.

 

I had considered doing the fish and coral separately ( still may ) - they do both interest me, but corals only with no fish movement would not hold my curiosity.  I'm a fish first guy - and the corals are like icing on the cake.  

 

Also been searching online to find an inexpensive way to setup a budget coral frag tank.  I already have light and RO/DI / tanks are cheap.  I don't really know what else to get started that direction though with feeding / routines / water changes / etc.  

 

Inertia has my current tank operating in the meantime, but I have a painted 20L that will be frag tank or FOWLR maybe 10 + 20 2 tanks in the not too distant future.   Got to work out the pieces to simplify aquatic life.

 

Edit: I have considered adding a Yellow clown goby which would increase nitrates a little naturally.  Wanted to do that for a while now actually. 

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1 minute ago, Jakesaw said:

Algae doesn't bother me - just the bubble variety I have growing uncontrollably in my tank.

This only happens in tanks with fish.....their metabolism provides a more or less continuous ammonia source.   You can have algae in a coral only tank, but it's always very little since the N and P inputs are always so little.....no fish metabolisms to keep running!!  (Not talking about testable levels of these....just talking about tank inputs.)

 

2 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

Bubble algae + DINO are what's done me in.  

Eek...

 

2 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

I need to raise my nutrients to about double where i am at to get rid of dino and the Bubble Algae will likely accellerate ( and it's already a hot mess where I remove a full filter pad daily )

Not a complete answer to the situation, but ditch the filter pads and any other mechanical filtration.

 

2 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

I'm told naturally to overfeed tank, but with old sand and and dissolved organics in a 10 gal, - these are the things that have been needling at me with tank.  2 problems with the opposing solution prescriptions.  And I really don't know if either WILL WORK or when.  Plus being a budget reefer.

No.  Overfeeding is kind of a hack and not something I have ever recommended (for what that's worth).  

 

You aren't raising the nutrient levels you are interested in....you are raising ALL nutrient levels.  Sometimes this isn't a problem....but I think anyone can see how that could easily become part of a problem.

 

Dosing N and P directly – and with precision – is a much much better option.

 

2 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

I had considered doing the fish and coral separately ( still may ) - they do both interest me, but corals only with no fish movement would not hold my curiosity.  I'm a fish first guy - and the corals are like icing on the cake.  

Good for you to know!   I had thoroughly scratched my fish itch in freshwater before I ever got into saltwater.....so coral-only was my clear choice.  Stony corals were very exotic to me....so fully captivated me.

 

Here's the downside to fish (vs corals), since you're heading more in that direction...

 

Fish swim and jump.  Fish have personalities (ie fight and don't get along).  Fish are picky.  There's no way to know whether you're feeding too much or too little until WAY after the fact when it's too late.

 

In contrast...

 

Corals are stationary.  Fights only result when WE place antagonists near each other.  Coral do not require (much) feeding at all....mostly just adequate light and water flow.  We have a range of test kits that can tell us how much of what needs to be added to the tank (ca, alk, etc).....there's mostly no question of "too much" or "too little" unless an error was made.

 

Also, as you know from fish keeping, it's not like NO ALGAE can grow under fish lights, it's just less....and usually cyanobacteria.  It's not that easy to clean tho....which is why a small CUC might still be nice to have.

 

2 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

Also been searching online to find an inexpensive way to setup a budget coral frag tank.  I already have light and RO/DI / tanks are cheap.  I don't really know what else to get started that direction though with feeding / routines / water changes / etc.  

What's the object of having it?  Are you dealing corals, or...?   (The purpose should suggest a good, simple design.)

 

Keep it simple, of course.....there shouldn't be much to it.   Of course, start with real live rock if at all possible....and try not to rush anything along the way.  👍

 

2 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

Inertia has my current tank operating in the meantime, but I have a painted 20L that will be frag tank or FOWLR maybe 10 + 20 2 tanks in the not too distant future.   Got to work out the pieces to simplify aquatic life.

Keep on keeping on!

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1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

What's the object of having it?  Are you dealing corals, or...?   (The purpose should suggest a good, simple design.)

 

Keep it simple, of course.....there shouldn't be much to it.   Of course, start with real live rock if at all possible....and try not to rush anything along the way.  👍

Object of having frag tank would be to grow it out and learn of course.  But maybe I don't need that.. clinging to old habits ( current tank ).

 

I have 1 year mature live rock ( Bubble algae infested of course )

 

:ninja:

 

Somewhere I would like to have a full on reef tank, but the learning curve in small tank keeps me back - and mixing the learn curve with fish keeping complicates it a bit more. 

 

If I had a groove keeping corals for a year or more - and knew what worked - paramaters / dosing / etc, Later, I could start off with a more sterile tank and QT everything that wen in slowly.  Keeping BA out of the equation altogether  - and managing my nutrients from the start in a way that didn't bottom out and get the DINO hell I've been working with.l 

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I never had a FOWLR but I like fish more then corals so I am sure I could be happy with it.

 

My life is busy right now so I removed a lot of SPS and LPS and going mostly soft corals. They are honestly more headache free than fish even and they use nutrients to grow. So far I feel it is the best decision ever.

 

The hobby is expensive but it can also be very cheap for super frugal people. I mean a black box led, jebao or koralia powerheads, dry rock on sale, and a petco sale tank and fill it up with only cheap frags off facebook 🙂

 

 

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I haven't bought corals in a long time now. Nor have I been dosing as I should and such. Whatever survives in the tank is a bonus at this point. I am tired of wasting money when they just die or I can't seem to take care of them properly for whatever millions of reasons out there. It's safe to say, my tank is slowly turning into FOWLR at this rate lol

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35 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

I mean a black box led, - CHECK

koralia powerheads, - CHECK 

dry rock on sale, - CHECK 

and a petco sale tank - CHECK 

and fill it up with only cheap frags off facebook -( or offer up ) - CHECK 

 

Just described my current tank setup   

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