Cycling and CUC / Refugium / Livestock order

[Crabgrass]

I am in the middle of setting up a IM 20 Dropoff tank (Separate journal posted for it), but have a few questions on the order of operations.  I was going to do the Red Sea Mature kit, but I am waiting on a replacement part for my skimmer..    So Here my current plan:

 

1) Kick off cycle with Dr Tims ammonia (every other or every third day based on ammonia levels)

 

2) When skimmer parts come (approx 1 week), use the Red Sea mature kit (following its specific programs).  If ammonia levels are high (from Dr Tims), I’ll wait a few days before they get down to =< 1.

 

3) introduce small CUC when ammonia and nitrite  = 0.  Kit says this to do it on Day 10, but I am assuming you go by the actual test results.

 

4) Add a Mollie (or similar fish), once nitrates  =< 5.  Mollie will go back to LFS or our freshwater tank later on

 

5) Once nitrate =< 2.  Red Sea Mature kit plan is over.  Add first permanent livestock (fish-tbd).  Remove the Mollie previously added.  

 

6 & 7)

   - Stop dosing NOPOX (from Red Sea Kit) and start Refugium (Chaeto).  Watching nitrate levels.  Hoping once Fuge is up and running NOPOX supplemention would not  be required.  I will also be running a UV sanitizer light (post cycle).

   -  Start dosing All-4-Reef and add 4-6 easy soft/LPS corals

😎 Chill for a month or two and monitor overall health of system

 

 

 

[brandon429]

Your plan will work.

 

There's one hidden rule you might want to know: the reason they're saying day ten is because submersion timing 100% always overrides your non digital test kits, every time.

 

(what date does every cycling chart ever made show the ammonia drop: day ten ish)

 

When you search out this brand of cycle and see folks stating it took 30 days, that's all false and none of it is seneye digital measures. Your tank will be able to carry fish on the same day you add the bacteria, without burning them, because when tracked digitally these cycle bacteria begin ability on day one. 

 

The reason you're waiting to day ten per their instructions is because that's the implantation date, not the working date for the bacteria. Meaning, if you add the ready bac on day one it's swirling in the water not implanted, still working, and a 100% water change is done that could remove the working bac from suspension but not by day ten, it's all implanted. 

 

Why does any of this matter to you:

 

Two reasons

 

1. The entire point of cycling is you want to carry animals without their waste burning them; you don't want them to die. 

 

2. We covered above that your ammonia carry ability is the same on day one as it is on day 150, time doesn't get you less ammonia it merely gets your tank immune to full water changes. When you see online a non digital ammonia meter taking 25 days to drop that's simply a false reading, every post, and to verify try and find one single seneye post showing ammonia noncontrol after day one then link it here, there are about a thousand you can see across sites. New testing meters have opened eyes; the companies that build bottle bac knew this for the last 20 years as their chemists aren't using terrible test kits at the billion dollar corporations only hobbyists and their peers do

 

The actual problem in the stated mode above is there's no fish disease prevention protocol; you are about to take one month to overly cycle a tank and still have an 80% chance that the first group of saltwater fish you buy will be dead in eight months or less due to simple disease from buying non quarantined fish and putting them into a tank with no fallow preps, no matter how long you wait for a cycle, fast or slow, your fish disease loss rates are very high as fast or slow cycling has nothing to do with retaining fish. 

 

Also to ease doubt in what I typed: try and find one single post on any site where two clownfish added on day one with any brand of bottle bac didn't act perfectly normal for months. That's about a million searchable posts going back to ~2003 (people have been doing fish- in cycles for two decades now) and you're searching for 1x example where it didn't work 🙂

 

So why do internet peers state every single time this is mean, harmful, and burning fish even though the fish never act weird or fail to eat and swim normally (proof they're not burned)

 

because those peers aren't relaying seneye data to you. 

 

Lastly, nitrite and nitrate have no bearing in your cycle whatsoever. 

 

 So as a final heads up, if disease preps are skipped, if they start dying one by one on or before Halloween don't think your parameters are bad, or the ph is bad, or the .25 ammonia you'll read on your kits is any truth: you'll need to revisit fish disease protocol and fallow out the tank and actually prepare the fish as folks do nowadays. About 10% of disease prep skippers simply get lucky and the pet store sold them no diseased fish if you're in that group of 10% then by Halloween you'll have no issues regardless of how you cycle. 

[Crabgrass]

Thanks and appreciate the detailed feedback, this is very useful.  I had a post similar to this a few days ago, and originally thought I would create a QT tank.  Someone suggested it was overkill for a 20g tank with a couple of fish.  Are there some simple/middle of the road guidelines for this? 

[brandon429]

If it was my tank I would do this for max ease, max retention%

 

-two clownfish get a pass. They may get brook but not at 80% more like 10% risk. 90% of the nano reefs on this site with two clowns skipped all prep and kept them long term, now if investing in $190 electric lighting white specimens or something rare I would do all observational quarantine but for common pet store clowns, clean holding tanks no diseased fish nearby and reputable pet store I would just go with them as is. 
 

 

where the 80% loss rate comes up is mixing species beyond that together so in your type of setup the dry rocks aren’t bringing in disease risk, chaeto from a refugium is a small % risk because they’re wet vectors from other tanks but still reasonable low risk. Your tank can skip the fallow phase because it’s rather clean of vectors at the start, no Molly is needed in the process above. If you want to just add the bottle bac, add ten drops of ammonia and a pinch of fish food ground up into powder and wait ten days I guarantee you that’s a testless cycle ready to roll in just over a weeks wait. **if you buy pre quarantined fish like those from Dr. Reefs quarantined fish then those can go right in. Lastly, if you can’t do those options/ rather costly/ then a simple quarantine cycled the exact same way is ideal to hold new fish and simply observe them for symptoms for 45 days or so. Medication can be applied preventatively for ultra high level preps