Fighting Dino's ​😲 ​

[ryans.salty.crew]

My tank has developed a sad case of Dino Algae. The tank is loosely littered with Dino's in the sand bed, on top of the sand bed, and on the rock. It is pissing off my new Zoa's and they've been closed for about 2 weeks.

 

I'm currently fighting it off by the following steps...

 

1) 48-72 hour blackout (3/19/22 - 3/21/22 )

2) Feeding fish more often to try to raise phosphates and nitrates 

3) Physical removal 

4) Cleaning filter floss daily

 

Please leave any comments you find helpful or let me know about your experiences and solutions that YOU personally have found.

[brandon429]

For eighty straight pages on our rip clean thread at reef 2 reef its all wins 

 

Dinos included

 

And rip clean isn't in your list, it's the first thing I would have done since we do rip cleans in normal tanks because they're refreshing for all systems and never harmful, and they don't cause cycles they improve any reef that runs one

 

So, how about dispense with hoping and jump right into command cleaning, a rip clean. We have a recent one here on nano reef you can prep with by reading to see how awesome his tank looks two weeks after

 

Do a rip clean, we prepare your setup here after you read a three page post on a recent job?

 

A rip clean is taking apart your reef, actually cleaning it correctly like you've never done before, putting it all back without dinos, then it's ripped clean and doesn't recycle. We don't need to know your params or species of invader, those have nothing to do with the personal resolve to own a clean vs invaded tank, we need only your readiness to be uninvaded. 

 

The one reason you wouldn't rip clean: to continue being invaded. A reason you would rip clean: to be uninvaded and have a clean tank with perfect corals, it's a simple choice. Let me know if you want to see Murph's event job done 100% correct with about two grand in corals present. 

 

It's the best option you could possibly choose

 

Everything you ran so far just recirculates dinos into different areas of the tank. We would not do that.  You might be tempted in hesitation/ what causes dinos invasions in nanos/ to list reasons a rip clean may not work well for you, but that's not the case

 

We didn't earn eighty pages and two million dollars of reefs fixed correctly by advising rip cleans in a bad way. Let's unhesitate your nano

[brandon429]

 

 

Pages 27-29 is a complete rip clean on a much larger system, yours would be a cakewalk compared to a ninety gallon

 

 

Do not add dosers or more bacteria. Buy nothing from your pet store for this matter, because what you'd buy can't be pre screened on an eighty page perfect outcome thread. 

 

when you read about not doing water changes to fight dinos, they mean partial water changes. A rip clean ends with a 100% water change, we do the extreme opposite of what you read to do regarding dinos. Everyone following the common path is what brought dinos to be the top scourge in reefing, they're all repeating methods that simply bring on more dinos or trade them off for six months of GHA algae battles which look exactly as bad. 

 

You cannot possibly have a better outcome than a rip clean, we use it on perfectly normal tanks not invaded to:

 

move homes without a recycle

 

 

change a sandbed out all at once without a recycle

 

fix cyano or persistent diatom issues

 

 

upgrade or downgrade tanks without a recycle

 

my own 16 year old nano gets them preventatively, before any invasion happens, and that's why its the oldest pico running on this site twice over. 

 

if I was to get another tattoo deep into a midlife crisis, it would say ripped clean.

 

a rip clean is simply removing 100% of all waste and invader cells in one pass, ended with a 100% water change matching temp and salinity. on a ten gallon it'll take you two mere hours to turn that tank around the best you've ever seen it.

 

a few more prep details are needed, but most don't honestly want to be uninvaded they want to be invaded longer (hesitation is the cause for all nano reef invasions, its psychology not biology) so to save my types I'll wait to see if you are ready to simply win.

 

start by posting a full tank shot in white light of your setup if you want a custom rip clean job made uniquely for your setup.

[ryans.salty.crew]

6 hours ago, brandon429 said:

 

 

Pages 27-29 is a complete rip clean on a much larger system, yours would be a cakewalk compared to a ninety gallon

 

 

Do not add dosers or more bacteria. Buy nothing from your pet store for this matter, because what you'd buy can't be pre screened on an eighty page perfect outcome thread. 

 

when you read about not doing water changes to fight dinos, they mean partial water changes. A rip clean ends with a 100% water change, we do the extreme opposite of what you read to do regarding dinos. Everyone following the common path is what brought dinos to be the top scourge in reefing, they're all repeating methods that simply bring on more dinos or trade them off for six months of GHA algae battles which look exactly as bad. 

 

You cannot possibly have a better outcome than a rip clean, we use it on perfectly normal tanks not invaded to:

 

move homes without a recycle

 

 

change a sandbed out all at once without a recycle

 

fix cyano or persistent diatom issues

 

 

upgrade or downgrade tanks without a recycle

 

my own 16 year old nano gets them preventatively, before any invasion happens, and that's why its the oldest pico running on this site twice over. 

 

if I was to get another tattoo deep into a midlife crisis, it would say ripped clean.

 

a rip clean is simply removing 100% of all waste and invader cells in one pass, ended with a 100% water change matching temp and salinity. on a ten gallon it'll take you two mere hours to turn that tank around the best you've ever seen it.

 

a few more prep details are needed, but most don't honestly want to be uninvaded they want to be invaded longer (hesitation is the cause for all nano reef invasions, its psychology not biology) so to save my types I'll wait to see if you are ready to simply win.

 

start by posting a full tank shot in white light of your setup if you want a custom rip clean job made uniquely for your setup.

This sounds like it could also be counter productive. If I'm looking to freshin up I will def get back to you. This would be a great job for rip cleaning my a$$ hole.

[Murphs_Reef]

This is a good way to help Dino's... 

 

On 2/25/2022 at 3:43 PM, 10g4Me said:

Great tip. I do water 30% - 40% water changes every 2 weeks. I'll take it out then.

 

[Jakesaw]

I got rid of Dinos naturally in about 6-8 weeks by raising nutrients.  Mine Dinos were all over my tank walls, thick bubbly brown muck. 

 

My phos / Nitrate were stuck at 0 for about 8 months of new tank before DINO showed up, and I naively let it grow thinking it was part of the ugly stage. 

 

I started with water changes and siphoning, no luck

Tried removing DINO with filter floss - removed some but no luck turning it back

Added a fish and got my nitrates up 5-10 level - removed filter floss and dirty fed frozen foods a bit - this got my tank to start growing hair algae which oucompeted and replaced the DINO

Phos was still stuck at zero - so I started dosing NeoPhos to get levels meaurable  while manually removing Hair algae daily.

Added CUC 6 various snails in 10 gallon to eat hair algae

 

DIno no more. I've been wrestling with a few bits of Bubble algae tha showed up when raising nutrients that I'v recently gotten emerald crab to deal with.

 

i currently change about 10 Percent of 10 gallon tank weekly and dose Phos after WC when needed.  Feel like tank is in a good place ( minus the bubble algae )

 

Evolution of a 1 year  old tank 

 

 

 

 

 

[sadie]

I had dinos.  If you look at my journal it's on pg 5.  I added pods, shortened my light schedule and brought my nutrients up.  It went away in about a week or two.  It wasn't a bad case and I caught it quick.

 

good luck.

[sadie]

oh, I also did remove it manually, but I found it got worse when I did WC so I didn't do a WC for a few weeks just to be safe.  I also couldn't get my nutrients up by increasing my feedings so I ordered NeoPhos and NeoNitro.  (for some reason I never did use the NeoNitro and my nitrates never did go up, just my phos)

 

I sadly I let my nutrients get low again and now I;m fighting cyano!  I won't do that again.  I also just ordered MicroBacter7.  I'm hoping with the use of all 3 it will finally balance out my nutrients and I'll be rid of the cyano.

[brandon429]

working against being fixed makes for great contrast

 

10g

 

Post your tank pic so there's a starting point to base your work on

 

You could tell during the descriptions I left you plenty of options to remain invaded, it's was expected. Here's where we did work and logged the patterns, starts and final pics

 

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/official-sand-rinse-and-tank-transfer-thread.230281/page-28

 

See the difference in their tank 10g? A couple hundred rip cleans, probably 25+ are nanos?

 

If you refuse to post a tank pic, or an intelligent response, that's fine. We come across those types occasionally. You could tell honest prep went into your options above, before you spoke as a reply.

[brandon429]

In a pic you listed from a month ago, that's high quality live rock there its surprising you have dinos with coralline- lined rock. 

 

quarantine practices can help you avoid bad imports in the future, with time to observe before going into the display.  Helps with eventual fish issues too. Though you may try and draw offense twice in a row you are being given specific dinos prevention examples from your original request.  You had mentioned it sounded harmful even after seeing Murph’s positive outcome…now there’s a good seven years of examples in addition to see if that’s been the case

 

another benefit for your system in you posting a before picture is confirming that you have dinos, going off verbal descriptions doesn't work as well as pictures we use to confirm that and other unstated details from the system under challenge. 

 

 

 

 

[Jakesaw]

12 hours ago, brandon429 said:

quarantine practices can help you avoid bad imports in the future, with time to observe before going into the display.  Helps with eventual fish issues too.

I think that's a good practice for an informed reefer, but for newbies that's trying  to learn the ABC's of reef tanks, it's another plate to balance in the equation? 

 

Fish you need another tank and source of bacteria.

 

Coral - If you want to QT a piece of coral where, I would guess, most hitchhikers come from, you need another reef light, stable nutrients and water parameters without a bioload  ( to learn how to setup and maintain a frag grow tank ). 

 

I could figure the Frag tank out quicker today than a year ago from the knowledge I gained in the hobby, but here today, I wouldn't know how to do that without a bit of investment of time to learn something new 

 

[Murphs_Reef]

16 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

I think that's a good practice for an informed reefer, but for newbies that's trying  to learn the ABC's of reef tanks, it's another plate to balance in the equation? 

 

Fish you need another tank and source of bacteria.

 

Coral - If you want to QT a piece of coral where, I would guess, most hitchhikers come from, you need another reef light, stable nutrients and water parameters without a bioload  ( to learn how to setup and maintain a frag grow tank ). 

 

I could figure the Frag tank out quicker today than a year ago from the knowledge I gained in the hobby, but here today, I wouldn't know how to do that without a bit of investment of time to learn something new 

 

Its a funny one.. chicken and egg... Unless you don't mind the initial stock being killed off. I was bitten by not QTing myself recently and it's not cool to deal with one bit.. 

I think you need to either go into it accepting the risk (animal death and money lost) OR spending more time researching before getting a single tank. 

[Jakesaw]

15 minutes ago, Murphych said:

I think you need to either go into it accepting the risk (animal death and money lost) OR spending more time researching before getting a single tank. 

Yep,

 

I chose path A - but chose to keep my reefing on shoestring budget and just move forward.

Dead rock

Cheap fish

Cheap frags

Used light

Old re-purposed and cleaned tank

 

If I had tried Path B - learn everything first, I'd have never gotten into the hobby and been stuck in analysis paralysis.

 

Had my share of mistakes, but I end up learning lessons along the way that will be helpful later on.  Wouldn't direct a person one way or the other, just agreeing that there isn't one way to get to the destination.

[brandon429]

agreed fully. its ethical to start off with a tank of coral only/inverts and quarantine nothing and then wrestle with the invasions that arise as we learn lessons / not learn them/ proceed as one will.

 

I wouldn't subject $600 gold torch corals to that warm up/kickback phase but some zoanthids and mushroom corals and brain coral frags are never in short supply for experimentation. I have to actually throw away chips of red montipora produced from my pico routinely because nobody in my town wants unattached chip frags and the growth shades out lower growths if not culled every three months. My trash has received probably two pounds of montipora chips over the years lol.

 

Adding fish without quarantine or the time/research/money invested into applying specific disease protocols gets muddier, due to easy resourcing we can read from any forum nowadays on the rates of fish disease loss, which are massive constant and marked. 

 

*nano reefs with two clowns or a clown/goby setup don't always lose the fish up front to disease like the larger tanks do with mixed species from the pet store added right in, so if someone tries out a first go with no fish disease preps and does fine that pretty much fits in scope with the history of posts we see on this board. In my opinion if someone does lose the fish within the first 6 months of starting on the experimental mode, they should not resume fish purchases until they're either buying pre quarantined fish and adding them to a fallow-prepped tank or quarantining the fish themselves and adding them to a fallow-prepped tank. 

 

The OP here isn't likely in the throes of a full on invasion, so the early rip clean practice before being fully stocked and aged was crucial to learn basic command and control before the real fun sets in, which based on attitudes in play I'd venture is coming long about July heh. 

 

it is very possible that with no direct intervention, or light intervention, the easy early invasion may self-resolve. The tendency however is to keep adding corals and frags, more $, while the invasion still builds up due to sheer permission given by the owner and then starts to coexpress with other invasions like GHA mixed in and then the experimenter who is dead-set on never intervening begins the chemical dosing route which starts a chemical soup chain of events that do wind up stressing fish and corals, all of which never occur in rip clean examples (but they have to be read in order to make sense, a link sitting on a post does nothing if not clicked for self-directed learning)

[ryans.salty.crew]

Thanks everyone for your advice. After the 72 hour black out, trying to raise my phosphates, and consistently mixing sand while cleaning the floss daily the tank looks algae free. Knock on wood, I know it hides when lights are off for a extended time.

 

A big problem is my phosphates being at 0. I dossed reef roids and are feeding daily to try to get them to 0.05.

 

Brandon I've learned it's better to do smaller changes first. If this doesn't work I will try some rip cleaning. (The name was to funny not to make a joke)

 

My tank has incredible coralline all over. Even 1 of the big snails has coralline. I'll have to post some pictures soon. I don't have a good way to get them onto here yet. 

[ryans.salty.crew]

1 hour ago, Jakesaw said:

I think that's a good practice for an informed reefer, but for newbies that's trying  to learn the ABC's of reef tanks, it's another plate to balance in the equation? 

 

Fish you need another tank and source of bacteria.

 

Coral - If you want to QT a piece of coral where, I would guess, most hitchhikers come from, you need another reef light, stable nutrients and water parameters without a bioload  ( to learn how to setup and maintain a frag grow tank ). 

 

I could figure the Frag tank out quicker today than a year ago from the knowledge I gained in the hobby, but here today, I wouldn't know how to do that without a bit of investment of time to learn something new 

 

Sadly, I don't have room for another frag tank. Luckily I buy them from my friend (1 of his frag tank in my bio). I'll be purchasing dip next time I buy some coral though. 

[sadie]

2 hours ago, 10g4Me said:

Sadly, I don't have room for another frag tank. Luckily I buy them from my friend (1 of his frag tank in my bio). I'll be purchasing dip next time I buy some coral though. 

I always use Coral Rx on my coral before adding them to the tank.  Even if they look safe.  

[Jakesaw]

1 hour ago, sadie said:

I always use Coral Rx on my coral before adding them to the tank.  Even if they look safe.  

I've used Reef Dip from seachem -which is basically iodine is my understanding.

 

Is Coral Rx similar product?

 

Thanks

[sadie]

22 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

I've used Reef Dip from seachem -which is basically iodine is my understanding.

 

Is Coral Rx similar product?

 

Thanks

I'm not really sure, but one time I accidently dumped my saltwater mix with the coral Rx in my tank, and they said it was fine.  that nothing in the solution would harm coral or fish so I liked that.  Not that I would do it again, but it's good to know.

[ryans.salty.crew]

Update on algae. 

 

Giving that I'm constantly looking at my tank in my living room, I caught the spread early. The black out shut down the spread and seems to have killed it. I have raised my phosphates from basically 0.00 to 0.05 (testing daily for a week straight), clean the glass everyday, run a neon pointer through the 1/2 of the sand one day and then the other 1/2 the next, and clean the filter floss daily.

 

I believe just keeping constant maintenance and not letting particles settle will keep any algae under control. Today I am adding a Jebao Wave Maker SLW-10 to also help me with flow. 

[sadie]

2 hours ago, 10g4Me said:

Update on algae. 

 

Giving that I'm constantly looking at my tank in my living room, I caught the spread early. The black out shut down the spread and seems to have killed it. I have raised my phosphates from basically 0.00 to 0.05 (testing daily for a week straight), clean the glass everyday, run a neon pointer through the 1/2 of the sand one day and then the other 1/2 the next, and clean the filter floss daily.

 

I believe just keeping constant maintenance and not letting particles settle will keep any algae under control. Today I am adding a Jebao Wave Maker SLW-10 to also help me with flow. 

I have been thinking about getting a Jebao Wave Maker.  I don't think my flow is good in my tank.  I have a wave maker nozzle.  You take off the factory output nozzle and add this and the water coming out turns the nozzle around causing it to flow over your coral and then up across the top to break the water.  But it has so much coraline algae on it, it doesn't really turn any more.  I have a nano power head also, but I still don't think it's enough.

[ryans.salty.crew]

ITS BAAACK!

 

After a month of keeping up and cleaning my tank and manually removing the small amount of algae I would find here and there, I got lazy and went a week with close to no maintenance. I saw the algae this weekend but didn't get a chance to clean it out and it spread yesterday like crazy. 

 

Adding flow with a Jebao Wave Maker has helped the corals not get irritated by it. 

 

Today I am blacking out the tank again until tomorrow afternoon when I have time to clean the pump and tube in the back. I notice the first bit of algae on the output nozzle. I will be changing the pump and cleaning the tube later on this week (the pump is old and doesn't fire up when I plug in the first time).

 

Haven't had a chance to do any testing with this busy, busy life. Haven't been feeding fish daily so I'm sure phos. are down.

[brandon429]

None of those are going to help, do you want to fix this the right way covered above a while back

 

If you don't want to clean the tank correctly and continue stressing it all in the chosen way that’s no problem, some like to experiment with options and sometimes dinos die from the changes.

 

We've done two rip cleans recently on willing tank owner setups and their issues are under control every time. Small tanks are easy to cheat fix.

 

consider Sadie's posts for the last 7 days, apply that to your tank, post the after pics 

[ryans.salty.crew]

39 minutes ago, brandon429 said:

None of those are going to help, do you want to fix this the right way covered above a while back

 

If you don't want to clean the tank correctly and continue stressing it all in the chosen way that's no problem... despite your initial skepticism I was willing to help you one more time. We've done two rip cleans recently on willing tank owner setups and their issues are under control

 

How to fix your tank covered a second time: go read all of Sadie's posts for the last 7 days, apply that to your tank, post the after pics here and you're fixed. 

Thank you. I appreciate your help, I will get back to you if I find the time but will be dealing with this without a rip clean for now. I don't have the hands on time currently and will find it easier to rip clean if I upgrade tanks eventually.

[Jakesaw]

Good luck with Rip Clean. I'm watching to see how things go.  I just saw an old photo of my 2 Hammers - that are all retracted since I started my own personal DINO he77. 

 

Very sad to look at past / present state of the Hammers as they were my favorite coral. 

 

Please post photos if you are able

 

Thanks