seeded new tank, 3 months with no nitrates or nitrites and high total ammonia?

[youre_so_jellyfish]

 

hey all, i have been going through this forum religiously and have searched and searched for a solution and could not find one, so posting here for help.

 

background : have had two clowns in an 8 gal aquarium for 6 years, no issues. 8gal aquarium is repurposed and is doing fine, all cycled, params in check and stable for years.  

 

i wanted to bring these clowns into a smaller desktop aquarium in my office, so i bought a new a 5gal, used filter media from cycled tank and added gravel to sustain more bacteria (previous tank was all glass).  i did that back in november, i here we are, 3 months into a fish-in cycle with no sign of nitrates or nitrites.  i removed all carbon from the filter.

 

1) temp is monitored, is between 72 and 75.

2) i only use filtered ocean water (pH is always in check, 7.8-8).

3) i perform water changes 1-2x weekly (when NH3 is at ~.12).

4) total ammonia hovers between 2 and 6.

5) ive used two sets of ATP test kits and also aquarium test strips that are always in alignment.

 

 

[Nanoi]

I would guess high levels of feeding. But also have you tested the water you use for water changes before it goes into the tank? 

[DevilDuck]

Ammonia at 2 and 6 ppm would kill anything in the tank. I think your getting a false positive in your readingi Do you add anything else to your water?

[youre_so_jellyfish]

Just feeding Tera flakes once per day, testing input water (its filtered from my local aquarium), using 2x different Ammonia test kits with same result.  Total ammonia is 4-6, NH4 (toxic) is at .05-.12.

[DevilDuck]

Can you post a picture of your API test? 

[fenderchamp]

have you tested the water before you put it in your tank? 

[fenderchamp]

also what sort of filtration are you using, and can you post a couple of pictures of the tank as it's currently running. 

[youre_so_jellyfish]

test kit attached.  new kit (left) showing same results as older kit (right) front are from the tank, back from the source.  my filter is just bioballs from my seed tank wrapped in white foam to filter out old food, i replace a couple times a week but wanted to keep as much bacteria in here to promote bacteria growth.

[seabass]

I'd add a nitrifying bacteria culture such as Biro-Spira.

[Tamberav]

What is in there beside gravel? Any dry/live rock to give bacteria more space to colonize?

 

Adult clowns are actually fairly dirty fish and 5g is very small. 

[seabass]

4 hours ago, youre_so_jellyfish said:

have had two clowns in an 8 gal aquarium for 6 years, no issues. 8gal aquarium is repurposed and is doing fine, all cycled, params in check and stable for years.  

 

i wanted to bring these clowns into a smaller desktop aquarium in my office, so i bought a new a 5gal

Also, just to be clear, a 5 gallon tank isn't suitable for a pair of adult Ocellaris clownfish.

[Jakesaw]

4 hours ago, seabass said:

I'd add a nitrifying bacteria culture such as Biro-Spira.

This time a year ( in U.S. ), maybe use Brightwell micro bacter 7.  Bio -spira canbe temperature sensitive in winters from transport.  May kill off bacteria per BRS. Bio-spira is my go to if it wasn't winter time here.

 

 

[youre_so_jellyfish]

I added bio-spire when i set this tank up at the end of October.  I just picked up some live rock, thought the gravel would be enough to harbor bacteria.  

[banasophia]

What do you mean about bioballs wrapped in white foam? And how are you measuring two different forms of ammonia? 

[youre_so_jellyfish]

1 hour ago, banasophia said:

What do you mean about bioballs wrapped in white foam? And how are you measuring two different forms of ammonia? 

i took bio-balls from an established tank and layered with dual density filter pads that i routinely replace. i measure total ammonia with the test kit, then calculate NH4 using current pH, salt and temperature values. 

[seabass]

4 hours ago, youre_so_jellyfish said:

I added bio-spire when i set this tank up at the end of October.  I just picked up some live rock, thought the gravel would be enough to harbor bacteria.  

Make sure that you cure the rock before adding it to a tank with livestock.  However, yes, it seems that your tank requires more surface area for a larger biofilter.

 

You say this is a fish-in cycle.  Are the two clownfish already in this tank?  This tank shouldn't have livestock in it at this point.

 

Pics of your setup might help us assess the situation.

[banasophia]

2 hours ago, youre_so_jellyfish said:

i took bio-balls from an established tank and layered with dual density filter pads that i routinely replace. i measure total ammonia with the test kit, then calculate NH4 using current pH, salt and temperature values. 

Well… these are some very unusual practices… why are you doing these things? 

[youre_so_jellyfish]

13 minutes ago, banasophia said:

Well… these are some very unusual practices… why are you doing these things? 

yes, live rock will be cured for the night. 

 

using seeded bio balls and filter pads is unusual? that’s how i’ve kept my 10 gallon jellyfish tank around for over a decade, just leaving the carbon out of the mix until this is cycled. 

 

testing for ammonia and calculating toxic NH4 is unusual? can you link me to a test kit that will target toxic ammonia?

[seabass]

5 hours ago, youre_so_jellyfish said:

yes, live rock will be cured for the night.

While some live rock is already fully cured, rock doesn't usually "cycle" overnight.

 

5 hours ago, youre_so_jellyfish said:

can you link me to a test kit that will target toxic ammonia?

• Seachem MultiTest Ammonia Test Kit

or even

• Seachem Laboratories Ammonia Alert

[aclman88]

My assumption would be (if ammonia test is accurate) is that you have been having ammonia constantly due the lack of rock or other media to handle the massive bioload of two clowns in a 5 gallon.  In other words, it is possible the tank isn't cycled because it can't support the necessary bacteria population to handle the fish waste from two adult clownfish.

 

If at all possible, you may want to put one of the clowns (or both) in the 8 gallon if it is still established for saltwater.  Another option would to see if a LFS would home them for the time being.  

 

Regardless, moving forward you shouldn't keep two clowns long term in a 5 gallon tank., especially since I am assuming these are older clowns if you have had them for 6+ years.  A ten gallon would be fine and shouldn't really take up substaionally more space.  Either way, good luck and I hope things work out for you!  

 

Oh yeah, Welcome to Nano-reef!  

[youre_so_jellyfish]

I put them back in the other tank, it is still established.  

 

they have been doing fine in this tank, healthy and all for 3 months so just unsure how if there's so much bio in this tank, why none of it converted to nitrates?

[seabass]

2 minutes ago, youre_so_jellyfish said:

for 3 months so just unsure how if there's so much bio in this tank, why none of it converted to nitrates?

It could be a bad/expired nitrate test kit, or it could be that something is consuming nitrate.  We really don't have enough information to say for sure.  But we do know that ammonia will be oxidized into nitrite, and nitrite into nitrate.  If conditions are right, denitrifying bacteria will process nitrate into nitrogen gas.  Also, dosing a carbon source can create a low nutrient condition.  Algae and/or other photosynthetic life will also utilize/consume nutrients (phosphate and nitrate).

 

Can you post of picture of this setup?  Have you verified undetectable nitrate with another test kit?

[fenderchamp]

1 hour ago, youre_so_jellyfish said:

I put them back in the other tank, it is still established.  

 

they have been doing fine in this tank, healthy and all for 3 months so just unsure how if there's so much bio in this tank, why none of it converted to nitrates?

 

The lack of details about your filtration and the lack of pictures makes me feel like you're just trollin' us. 

 

If your fish have been alive for 3 months in this 5 gallon, then it's all moot anyway. 

 

Carry on, keep doing what you're doing, don't worry about your test readings and enjoy the hobby.