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filefishfinatic

please explain triton method

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filefishfinatic

i tried reading about triton method in german and english. still makes no sense to me. basically the only perks (bio-based & no water changes) i already do with success. 

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Jaren45

just another way to achieve success. just like any of the other "methods" out there.. berlin, triton, zeovit, etc

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filefishfinatic

i want to try making a method to sustain bacteira for more food for cryptic sponges. if you read my "simplicity ecosystem theroy" thread, it explains in greater details 

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Maas101

Triton is a method for maintaining water parameters, it doesn't directly address nutrient export although generally that's done in concert with a fuge and chaeto. Nutrient export is generally accomplished by turning excess nutrients into biomass which can then be removed from the system. In the case of a fuge the biomass is chaeto growth that can be removed. Another method is carbon dosing which promotes the growth of bacteria which consume nitrates and phosphates, skimming then removes the bacterial biomass. Both methods are often backed up with phosphate removal by chemical means i.e. rowaphos or lanthanum chloride. Zeovit is another nutrient export system which is closely related to carbon dosing. If you want to promote bacterial growth then either carbon dosing or Zeovit is probably your best bet.

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DevilDuck

Triton and all it's related no-water change systems work very similarly. It's confusing but actually very easy, it's a no water change method, at regular intervals (you start out monthly) you do the following:

 

1. Get an ICP water test from Triton Labs. This will tell you where your macro and trace levels are at

2. Make adjustments by adding any elements that are low

3. Nitrate and Phosphates are removed using a large refugium with microalgae supplemented with phosphate scavenging media

4. Repeat

 

Zeovit adds a reactor to house bacteria along with carbon dosing to remove nitrates/phosphate removing the reliance on the refugium.

 

Another recent variation of Triton is the Reef MoonShiner's method, which I personally use:  https://www.reefmoonshiners.com/how-the-system-works

 

The only difference is that it uses ATI ICP water tests, some supplements are off the shelf (Brightwell, Seachem etc), the rest you can purchase from the website. You export nitrates and phosphate in whatever way works for you. Water changes are optional, but not entirely discouraged.

 

They are all are consumption based approaches. You are testing your water and only the supplementing specific elements that are depleted according to the ICP, in contrast to doing water changes and blinding dosing an all in one trace additive (kinda like Estimated Index in freshwater planted world).

 

Of course once you get an idea of what and how much your particular tank consumes on a regular basis you can cut back on the ICP tests and only test when things are "off". I'm a big fan since I live in an apartment and do not have room for water making/mixing/storage equipment. 

 

 

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mcarroll
8 hours ago, filefishfinatic said:

i tried reading about triton method in german and english. still makes no sense to me. basically the only perks (bio-based & no water changes) i already do with success. 

I've tried before too....as far as I can tell it's a carbon dosing scheme designed to sell test kits and lots of supplements.  It came (and went?) with the ULNS "craze" I think.

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TheKleinReef
11 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

I've tried before too....as far as I can tell it's a carbon dosing scheme designed to sell test kits and lots of supplements.  It came (and went?) with the ULNS "craze" I think.

 

it seems less carbon based, more predictability based. How I see it is: you know the fuge can process a certain amount of water, corals take up a certain amount of nutrients/elements then  combine that process with the objective info of an ICP and specific supplements and you can target your systems very specific needs.

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mcarroll
27 minutes ago, TheKleinReef said:

 

it seems less carbon based, more predictability based. How I see it is: you know the fuge can process a certain amount of water, corals take up a certain amount of nutrients/elements then  combine that process with the objective info of an ICP and specific supplements and you can target your systems very specific needs.

I understand what you're saying. 😉 

 

Of course "objective" is not a fixed definition, it's a viewpoint.  

 

Also, even high end ICP testing is not "perfect" – and in our context we're only talking about inexpensive hobby-grade ICP.  What ICP does is allow for our "laziness" at not wanting to test...allowing us to mail away for test results.   Unfortunately this takes any immediacy away from the testing or the result....they don't much promote that aspect.  (You're like to still end up with a set of titration test kits so you can have results whenever you want them.)

 

If I take their site's "Method" promotion at face value, it looks like they're taking credit for what amounts to the current (c.2008) Berlin Method of employing a sump, live rock, strong flow, strong light, supplementation against hard coral growth, et al., as well as the idea of using a balanced supplement system (ie scientifically balanced)...of which, B-IONIC was an early addition to Berlin Method reefkeeping.  I'm not sure that's fair to anyone reading that who may be new to reefing.  The caveat emptor rule also occurs to me. 

 

Adding ICP to the Berlin mix is novel, and fair to say that triton did a lot to popularize it.  I don't know about saying more than that.  (For what it's worth, I think there were 2-3 other ICP providers in the U.S. long before Triton came along from DE.  Aqua Medic used to operate one of them.) 

 

I think this article from 2007 explains the issues of a supplementing a stony coral reef tank better to a prospective noobie reefer, and has an excellent citation list of links for further reading:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php

 

Background on the Berlin Method for any young'uns....has historically relevant explanation of it:

https://reefs.com/2020/04/11/dsb-and-berlin-method-in-comparison-which-is-the-best/

(note: 2020 is the article's re-publishing date when reefs.com bought advancedaquarist.com.  It was originally published in 2003.)

 

I don't think any of that guidance suggests that Triton is "necessary" to a successful reef....but it looks like Triton fits within that already-successful scheme.

 

@filefishfinaticI think if you read those two links (and the links contained) the Triton Method will make a little more sense...I think you'll at least see what they are copying, so their differences will at least stand out better and it won't seem so mysterious.  Just DO NOT look at that silly check-mark table they have comparing methods.  😵💫😵😮💨 The comparisons that the reefkeeping.com article (including the articles it links you to) are much better and much more useful/practical.

 

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filefishfinatic

why do i need to icp test though. i basically do that but i have only asked my lfs to test for me. my pavona is growing like crazy and idk why. sea lettuce is going crazy too. i might have accidentally made my tank go into equilibrium because i do things on my tank super consistently. 

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mitten_reef

your LFS tests for your standard parameters - same tests hobbyists can buy kits for.  ICP provides a full suite of elemental analysis of what in your water including levels of various trace elements, using a chemistry lab equipment.

IF you go on no water change long scheme enough, trace elements will be depleted, hence results from ICP is crucial, and why triton and the likes have SO MANY elemental additives to tailor to your results.  Only scenario, that I see, to supplement without eventually needing trace elements would be if you replenish using calcium reactor with high quality media.

We've seen your tank, it's not at all what I'd consider a candidate for the triton method.    

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filefishfinatic

i dose trace. 

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mitten_reef
9 minutes ago, filefishfinatic said:

i dose trace. 

define "trace", and what you dose in general...because LFS don't usually test for trace (at least not for free).  So if you're dosing trace, are you blindly dosing, again, we're talking trace elements, like potassium, iodide, iron, etc? 

 

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filefishfinatic
7 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

define "trace", and what you dose in general...because LFS don't usually test for trace (at least not for free).  So if you're dosing trace, are you blindly dosing, again, we're talking trace elements, like potassium, iodide, iron, etc? 

 

if my corals are still hapy after 6 mos of dosing trace and other elements my tank should be fine. i dose seachem calc seachem trace & seachem vitamins like garf method. i dose through my ato 

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mitten_reef
9 minutes ago, filefishfinatic said:

if my corals are still hapy after 6 mos of dosing trace and other elements my tank should be fine. i dose seachem calc seachem trace & seachem vitamins like garf method. i dose through my ato 

sounds like you think you're well covered on the dosing front....I can't tell if seachem calc, meant to say calcium AND alkalinity?  but the trace product does include combination of elements typical used.  so if you're dosing per instruction, you're probably fine.

 

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with what you're doing, just trying to clarify the things that you say, because your brain seems to be all over the place with the topics you generated.

 

with regards to triton method: it's for ppl who want high-degree of accuracy and precision - whether to target growth, colorations, or both.  And even that, it isn't the end-all, be-all method.  as someone else mentioned it also to get some hobbyists to open up their wallets some more, lol. 

 

There are too many ways to have a successful tank, some methods work for all, some work for few.  the more precise and sophisticated ones also require more attention and/or automation in setting up; while the tank inhabitants can be just as happy in a "general range" of parameters.  something to keep in mind.   

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TheKleinReef
3 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

We've seen your tank, it's not at all what I'd consider a candidate for the triton method.   

 

oh my 🔥

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mcarroll
11 hours ago, filefishfinatic said:

why do i need to icp test though

I don't know who is saying that you do.   😉   The article linked explains most of the pros and cons though.

 

If you diligently do your own testing as-needed (LFS counts by proxy) and keep a log of the results, you will be at least almost as well off IMO.  Logging is very important.  Time/Date and some notes are good side-info to keep in the log.

 

ESV is probably the first and best known balanced supplementation system, in case you want a pointer on that front.  It adds everything from magnesium to alk and traces...with no extra sodium, chloride, etc. like DIY (for example) tends to have...so it's friendlier to a no-waterchange situation.  I think Brightwell and others offer similar "complete" two-part systems, but I don't know exactly how they all compare with ESV. I don't know if any are actually the same formulation....I think Brightwell's formulation appears to be simpler, for example.

 

This might be an interesting read:  https://www.esvaquarium.com/#features

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mcarroll
7 hours ago, TheKleinReef said:

 

oh my 🔥

The site owner, @Christopher Marks, smartly employs NO MODERATORS on nano-reef.com.   Sometimes the results are funny, sometimes less funny.

 

But Chris also has made excellent tools available to "improve the view" when needed – such as the Ignore function you an apply to anyone's account, and Custom Activity Streams that can change which forums/messages you see.  (I just found out about custom streams.....cool!  Where was I???)

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