Pale pygmy wrasse?

[IHaveADegreeInMarineBioBut]

Hey guys!

 

I got this pygmy wrasse a week ago. It was pretty pale in store, but eating and active. It was also in a tank with like 15 clownfish so it was probably stressed. It's still eating every day and is always active in my tank (no scratching/rubbing) but I'm just worried about its coloration. It also seems to have a little white spot/scales missing from the top of its head. I'm thinking it could've jumped and hit its head or just injured it some other way.

 

I tried to get the best pictures I could but it wasn't having it.

Unfortunately, I did not have the capacity to quarantine. I know that the place I bought it from runs their systems with low levels of copper.

 

Should I be concerned? 

[DaJMasta]

That seems to be normal for them, a faint pinkish color that will darken up in the coming week or two to a medium brown.  The juvenile stripes (vertical faint white bands) should become more visible too.

[IHaveADegreeInMarineBioBut]

3 hours ago, DaJMasta said:

That seems to be normal for them, a faint pinkish color that will darken up in the coming week or two to a medium brown.  The juvenile stripes (vertical faint white bands) should become more visible too.

Thank you! That makes me feel a little better.

[IHaveADegreeInMarineBioBut]

So some changes in behavior today. Sticking to the top of the tank and pecking at the surface. Some cloudiness in ONLY one eye for right now. Really unsure though because it could have been injury that I didn't see from the head injury. Still accepting foods and sometimes picking at the rocks.
 

Ordered some Prazipro. Hoping to do a freshwater bath tomorrow.

[IHaveADegreeInMarineBioBut]

Really strange that it keeps bobbing with its mouth sticking out of the water though?? 
Does anyone have any idea what this could mean? Trying to get oxygen?

[Jakesaw]

Not super experienced reefer, but I do know that saltwater holds less oxygen than FW.

 

Is there a possibility that you have overstocked tank, or a film forming on top of your water inhibiting gas exchange at the surface.  Surface agitation from circulation pump or protein skimmers help to put oxgen gas exchange in water. 

 

 

 

[IHaveADegreeInMarineBioBut]

13 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

Not super experienced reefer, but I do know that saltwater holds less oxygen than FW.

 

Is there a possibility that you have overstocked tank, or a film forming on top of your water inhibiting gas exchange at the surface.  Surface agitation from circulation pump or protein skimmers help to put oxgen gas exchange in water. 

 

 

 

Nah its a 20 L with 2 clowns, a goby, and the wrasse

[Jakesaw]

no problem with bioload there

[IHaveADegreeInMarineBioBut]

It's found a new, odd sleeping place. Don't know where it's been sleeping, but now it's wedged between the glass and the thermometer.
Hoping to make it through the night 😞

[mcarroll]

On 11/20/2021 at 2:35 PM, IHaveADegreeInMarineBioBut said:

Unfortunately, I did not have the capacity to quarantine. I know that the place I bought it from runs their systems with low levels of copper.

This is a really crappy practice for a retailer IMO.  If possible you should shop elsewhere.

 

Wrasse are known to be sensitive to some common medications such as copper.  If he doesn't make it this is what I would blame for sure.

 

How does he seem to be acting during the day now?   Any chance you can post a vid?

[IHaveADegreeInMarineBioBut]

4 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

This is a really crappy practice for a retailer IMO.  If possible you should shop elsewhere.

 

Wrasse are known to be sensitive to some common medications such as copper.  If he doesn't make it this is what I would blame for sure.

 

How does he seem to be acting during the day now?   Any chance you can post a vid?

theyre a really horrible place. the fish was $60 online and $80 in store. asked them how i could get them to honor the online price and they said the shipping makes up for it. i dont know but shipping should pay for shipping only. i try to avoid this place but theyre sadly the only local store with a large selection.

 

his behavior is weird. he's still very willingly eating frozen foods. but he'll just kind of hang out below the surface of the water, sometimes doing the mouth thing (piping?). but where as a few days ago he was cruising around the rock, today he spent most of the time in the upper layer of the tank. i'm still not really seeing any twitching/flashing. maybe some yawning? but i wouldn't call it chronic or anything.

i can probably get a video tomorrow. but there was definitely a change in behavior and the eye scratch/cloudiness.

[DaJMasta]

Saltwater fish don't really gasp for air like freshwater ones because they usually live at depths where the surface is simply inaccessible.  If it was dissolved oxygen related it would manifest as 'panting' of the gills, slower or unusual movement, and in a lot of fish, hiding.

 

Mine doesn't hang out at the top much, just cruises around the rocks most of the time but willing to come out for food.  I had two initially and I think one had a bacterial infection - a bit of patchy lighter coloration on one side.  It never fully darkened up like the other, and while it acted normal for a couple days, I found it lying on the back corner of the tank sometimes, though when I would go to net it, it would get up and swim off like nothing was the matter.  It eventually got more lethargic and then stopped eating, whereas the other got its color and cruises around as you would expect.

While I don't think the behavior at the top is normal, if he's always moving around and is eating readily, I think it's probably alright.

[A.m.P]

Eye cloudiness, odd listless behavior, came from a tank of clowns, surface breaching... I'd keep a very close eye out for a possible brook infection.

[IHaveADegreeInMarineBioBut]

1 hour ago, DaJMasta said:

Saltwater fish don't really gasp for air like freshwater ones because they usually live at depths where the surface is simply inaccessible.  If it was dissolved oxygen related it would manifest as 'panting' of the gills, slower or unusual movement, and in a lot of fish, hiding.

 

Mine doesn't hang out at the top much, just cruises around the rocks most of the time but willing to come out for food.  I had two initially and I think one had a bacterial infection - a bit of patchy lighter coloration on one side.  It never fully darkened up like the other, and while it acted normal for a couple days, I found it lying on the back corner of the tank sometimes, though when I would go to net it, it would get up and swim off like nothing was the matter.  It eventually got more lethargic and then stopped eating, whereas the other got its color and cruises around as you would expect.

While I don't think the behavior at the top is normal, if he's always moving around and is eating readily, I think it's probably alright.

Yeah the appetite and lack of lethargy are kind of what don't make sense to me. He is responsive to my hand, but not in a stressed way. Just aware that I'm there kind of way. I'll see how he's (hopefully alive) doing tomorrow and see what I need to do. I have Prazipro on the way and should arrive tomorrow. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, A.m.P said:

Eye cloudiness, odd listless behavior, came from a tank of clowns, surface breaching... I'd keep a very close eye out for a possible brook infection.

Hmm supposedly he had been in the tank with the clowns for 3 weeks, though the copper could have suppressed some things for that time. With brook's, I'm finding the main thing as sloughing and mucus. I'm not seeing anything of that really. The injury on the head really does look like a scratch of some type. 

[A.m.P]

Brook mainly attacks gills and can kill without any visible symptoms, it can also lay dormant for months per @Humblefish's personal anecdotes from times past, if I'm remembering correctly.
Could be bacterial, I'm honestly really not sure at all. Maybe start a thread on Humblefish's forum and see if someone's seen anything like it before.

[IHaveADegreeInMarineBioBut]

4 minutes ago, A.m.P said:

Brook mainly attacks gills and can kill without any visible symptoms, it can also lay dormant for months per @Humblefish's personal anecdotes from times past, if I'm remembering correctly.
Could be bacterial, I'm honestly really not sure at all. Maybe start a thread on Humblefish's forum and see if someone's seen anything like it before.

I haven't seen any heavy breathing either, though his gills are pretty difficult to make out. 
I've been reading tons of Humble's posts. But I'll probably head over there tomorrow. See if he's even still alive then. 

 

Thank you so much.

 

[jambon]

Could the clownfish be harassing the wrasse? The possum wrasse is very laid back and a good target for more aggresive fish...

[IHaveADegreeInMarineBioBut]

1 hour ago, jambon said:

Could the clownfish be harassing the wrasse? The possum wrasse is very laid back and a good target for more aggresive fish...

I haven't seen any aggression and the wrasse is willingly hanging out with them.

[IHaveADegreeInMarineBioBut]

Here are a few pictures. The bump on the head looks better. I haven't seen him hanging out at the surface as much but the lights only turned on a little bit ago. 

The eye is definitely bulging. The other eye looks okay? Maybe some yawning. 

[filefishfinatic]

do you have a hypodermic needle? its eye looks messed up. 

[Jakesaw]

If it's eating and swimming in the open, I would keep an eye on it for visible disease, but not worry about it too much.  Let it get used to it's new home if other tank inhabitants are not bothering the fish.  

 

Others with more experience can give better advice though I'm sure. 

[DaJMasta]

I would say the right eye looks normal, they are sort of goofy looking fish in top down profile because their body tapers quickly from the widest point around the gills and the eyes do bulge out a fair bit - they can turn their eyes enough to look almost all the way forward.  The left eye is huge, though, and it probably doesn't have its normal range of motion in this state.

[Jakesaw]

22 minutes ago, DaJMasta said:

tapers

 

23 minutes ago, DaJMasta said:

 The left eye is huge, though, and it probably doesn't have its normal range of motion in this state.

WOW, missed that.  Definitely not normal size there.

[mcarroll]

He looks bleached like a coral.  

 

There is a relationship between fish coloration and immune function.  Check out this article where they look at the phenomena in bettas: Red fish, blue fish: trade-offs between pigmentation and immunity in Betta splendens

 

From the eyeball we can now more or less say he's got an infection.  But I've never seen fish color be affected so dramatically....if at all.  

 

Usually bulging eyes are a standalone problem that resolves with cleaning up the water.  

 

I'm still not so sure about this case.  

 

On the bad vibe:  Other than "pop eye" it seems like most bacterial problems are untreatable.  Is this just "pop eye" though?  (Living in copper may have had a permanent effect.)

 

On the good vibe:  Most fish that are still eating well will recover just fine.  

 

Keep your fingers crossed.  

 

Keep looking out for signs of aggression (have you watched during different hours of the day?) or of anything else amiss with the system.

 

Edit:  Was he colored like this in the store too, or was there a change after you got him?

[DevilDuck]

Fingers crossed for the little guy. I also have one and they are one of my favorite fish in the tank.