Sandbed depth - grain size - preferences?

[mcarroll]

2 hours ago, Jakesaw said:

Is this sand digging normal behavior for Talbots - or damsels in general.

I think this group of damsels are actually "territorial algae eaters"....grooming their area for the right algae to grow is part of their job description.

 

Talbot's = Chrysiptera talboti

 

Chrysiptera is one of the members of the Pomacentridae family....known as the "territorial damselfish" for their propensity for guarding and grooming algae patches.  Some species are actually called "farmer fish" apparently.

 

It doesn't explicitly look at the Talbot's, but check out this article that looks at the eating behavior of three other species in the family:  https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/153/m153p299.pdf

 

IMO, you're on the right course with increased feedings....but I think you should focus on a higher frequency of feeding rather than just "more"...perhaps even keep the overall amount you feed approximately the same.  

 

This is actually why I suggested an auto-feeder....from a practical standpoint most folks can only tend to their tank one a day.  (Two or three if you're a "real fish head".) The Eheim auto feeder, to use my example, can run up to 8 times while you're not even around.  This fish may demand a solution like this.  (And the Eheim is the best of the best....and not too expensive.)  Something to consider while you attempt to resolve things with other measures.  👌 

 

Wet Web Media has a great entry for them:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/c_talboti.htm

 

This article is a harder read, but more FUN and more on-point since it actually includes Talbot's in the data:  https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Katie-Sambrook/publication/309297764_Life_on_the_edge_Coral_reef_fishes_exhibit_strong_responses_to_a_habitat_boundary/links/58545dd908ae77ec37045c6f/Life-on-the-edge-Coral-reef-fishes-exhibit-strong-responses-to-a-habitat-boundary.pdf

[Jakesaw]

I tried feeding him once a day and he was having None of it   Would stalk me whenever I was around.  First time I saw the sand dug up, I figured he was digging for food in the sand.  

 

Feedwise, both fish love the frozen shrimp brine & Mysis.  Brine preferred

Talbot - eats floating pellets when they drop  Eats em so fast, clowny can't get a bite.

Clownfish will eat flake food I sink - and the Talbot won't touch it, so they both get a diverse feeding. 

 

I like to control the feedings - as it's a small tank and nutrients are an issue I'm working through with DINO / some hair Algae on the walls  

[mcarroll]

That "Life on the Edge" article is REALLY GOOD btw.....finally finished it.

 

1 hour ago, Jakesaw said:

as it's a small tank and nutrients are an issue I'm working through with DINO / some hair Algae on the walls  

I think I'm with you, but let me know if I have your situation wrong...  

 

Feeding

You should feed the fish how they need to be fed – for their own good as well as for the overall harmony of the tank. 

 

For now it sounds like the fish is at least demanding food be offered more frequently or even continuously, even if it doesn't actually need more volume of food.  

 

An in-tank brine shrimp hatchery (a la @Paul B's DIY) is another idea along the same lines as the auto-feeder.....the shrimp hatch out slowly 24/7.  Non-polluting, low-volume, high-frequency feeding. Not really that much work either if it's something your fish really responds to and likes.

 

Here's one of Paul B's DIY, Tom Aquatics', Brine Shrimp Direct's, San Francisco Bay Brand's and some other baby brine shrimp hatchery/auto feeders:

    

The last one is SFBB's "Shrimpery"....it's a great unpowered design and I've even done a DIY version that works well...note these last two are just hatcheries, not in-tank feeders like the first few.

 

Here's a movie of the Tom Aquatics unit in action:

 

Auto-feeders like the Eheim mentioned in earlier posts, which dispense high-density foods like flake and pellet, are more capable of fouling up your water...but that just means use a good quality feeder and make all changes to your feeding routine small and incremental so that waste is as minimal as possible.  (I use one when needed. I use it with the Eheim feedStation too.)

 

It is important not to over feed (which you might be worried about) – where food goes uneaten altogether and just decays in the water or in a filter.  Doesn't sound like this should be a worry given your awareness and your current circumstance though!  👍

 

Algae

Algae/dino issues should be mostly unrelated to your fish feeding.  Algae is a function of who's eating the algae (fish or snails) or removing it (you).  How is your green algae doing BTW? Can you tell if it's growing or receding in terms of the area it covers?  Also, can you tell if there are areas that your cleanup crew is keeping "mowed" vs other areas that are "going wild" and growing taller?

 

Dino's

Dino's are usually a non-issue once you have substantial green algae growth....assuming that you've eliminated the reason(s) for the dino's appearance in the first place.  

 

How bad was your dino bloom, BTW?  Depending on your answer, and based on the photos so far (I think I've seen photos in another thread right?), it seems like you're pretty far along on the recovery.  (Can you post a before/after set of pics here by any chance?)

[Jakesaw]

41 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

That "Life on the Edge" article is REALLY GOOD btw.....finally finished it.

 

I think I'm with you, but let me know if I have your situation wrong...  

 

Feeding

You should feed the fish how they need to be fed – for their own good as well as for the overall harmony of the tank. 

 

For now it sounds like the fish is at least demanding food be offered more frequently or even continuously, even if it doesn't actually need more volume of food.  

 

An in-tank brine shrimp hatchery (a la @Paul B's DIY) is another idea along the same lines as the auto-feeder.....the shrimp hatch out slowly 24/7.  Non-polluting, low-volume, high-frequency feeding. Not really that much work either if it's something your fish really responds to and likes.

 

Here's one of Paul B's DIY, Tom Aquatics', Brine Shrimp Direct's, San Francisco Bay Brand's and some other baby brine shrimp hatchery/auto feeders:

    

The last one is SFBB's "Shrimpery"....it's a great unpowered design and I've even done a DIY version that works well...note these last two are just hatcheries, not in-tank feeders like the first few.

 

Here's a movie of the Tom Aquatics unit in action:

 

Auto-feeders like the Eheim mentioned in earlier posts, which dispense high-density foods like flake and pellet, are more capable of fouling up your water...but that just means use a good quality feeder and make all changes to your feeding routine small and incremental so that waste is as minimal as possible.  (I use one when needed. I use it with the Eheim feedStation too.)

 

It is important not to over feed (which you might be worried about) – where food goes uneaten altogether and just decays in the water or in a filter.  Doesn't sound like this should be a worry given your awareness and your current circumstance though!  👍

 

Algae

Algae/dino issues should be mostly unrelated to your fish feeding.  Algae is a function of who's eating the algae (fish or snails) or removing it (you).  How is your green algae doing BTW? Can you tell if it's growing or receding in terms of the area it covers?  Also, can you tell if there are areas that your cleanup crew is keeping "mowed" vs other areas that are "going wild" and growing taller?

 

A  

 

How bad was your dino bloom, BTW?  Depending on your answer, and based on the photos so far (I think I've seen photos in another thread right?), it seems like you're pretty far along on the recovery.  (Can you post a before/after set of pics here by any chance?)

Hair algae is only an issue on my tank walls.  The rocks seem to have matured enough that they are out competing wherever they are getting light.  I'm even getting some coraline algae growth in spots of the tank ( Rock / Koralia pump / wall here and there )

 

As for the DINO - it was pretty bad til I got the new fish w/ extra feeding and iDINO is slowly getting replaced by green & hair algae on the walls.  I'm pulling it out by siphoning it and filtering the crud through HOB filter pad too. 

 

Things SEEM to be going the right direction.  Giving it some time to play out / observe / and learn

[filefishfinatic]

17 hours ago, Jakesaw said:

The once dominant clown literally never leaves the his rock island except to feed on Frozen food. He's figured out the Talbot's damsel would like to move in if he vacates.  Very little aggresion between the two, only seen em nip twice and it was short lived

 

Of my 2 fish the new guy is my favorite personality wise and open swim in the small tank.  Hopefully with the 20 gallon I move him into he'll be a bit more calm with the territory. 

 

BUT... I reserve the right in my small tank to any time remove all the rock / inhabitants and move things around though. " MY TANK " 

 

He's probably the only damsel I'll ever own though. Read too many horror stories.  Got him b/c he swims alot, and is considedered most peaceful of the damsel family

you could try a fu manchu lionfish if you want an oddball. they are venomus and they will not be messed with. 

[filefishfinatic]

15 hours ago, mcarroll said:

I think this group of damsels are actually "territorial algae eaters"....grooming their area for the right algae to grow is part of their job description.

 

Talbot's = Chrysiptera talboti

 

Chrysiptera is one of the members of the Pomacentridae family....known as the "territorial damselfish" for their propensity for guarding and grooming algae patches.  Some species are actually called "farmer fish" apparently.

 

It doesn't explicitly look at the Talbot's, but check out this article that looks at the eating behavior of three other species in the family:  https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/153/m153p299.pdf

 

IMO, you're on the right course with increased feedings....but I think you should focus on a higher frequency of feeding rather than just "more"...perhaps even keep the overall amount you feed approximately the same.  

 

This is actually why I suggested an auto-feeder....from a practical standpoint most folks can only tend to their tank one a day.  (Two or three if you're a "real fish head".) The Eheim auto feeder, to use my example, can run up to 8 times while you're not even around.  This fish may demand a solution like this.  (And the Eheim is the best of the best....and not too expensive.)  Something to consider while you attempt to resolve things with other measures.  👌 

 

Wet Web Media has a great entry for them:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/c_talboti.htm

 

This article is a harder read, but more FUN and more on-point since it actually includes Talbot's in the data:  https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Katie-Sambrook/publication/309297764_Life_on_the_edge_Coral_reef_fishes_exhibit_strong_responses_to_a_habitat_boundary/links/58545dd908ae77ec37045c6f/Life-on-the-edge-Coral-reef-fishes-exhibit-strong-responses-to-a-habitat-boundary.pdf

feeding more is a great idea. if you arent already, you should soak your pellets in fish oil and feed your fish food with living bacteria, the clams you can get at grocery stores are good for this. this will boost their immunity and health. its like a kid eating dirt and then having a better immune system. i feed my fish several times a day in small quantities with at least 1 cube of frozen food or some shredded clam. 

[Jakesaw]

The Talbot has settled in and both fish get along well.   Sometimes sharing territory for as long as a day to re-establish their own the next day.

 

Little bugger Talbot is still moving sand occasionally.  Knocked my unglued Frogspawn frag off the rock last night ( which had been settling in nicely to its spot ) and burried encrusting frag the prior day.  Sunk my Acan a bit in sand depth.  

 

Other than the occasional frag rescue all is going well!