Is sandbed clean a must? and how can i grow algae?

[Rowena]

Hi, I have a 20 gallon tank cycled a few weeks ago. Regarding "Is sandbed clean a must?" the reason i ask is i have limited exposed sandbed after putting my toadstool on sand and will be adding a fungia in the future. It will be very hard to clean the sandbed without touching other corals. I have 2 clownfish and wont add any more fish. I also have a nassarius snail (which doesnt stir the sandbed) and a trochus snail and i dont think ill add anymore CUC as both are starved.... I'm doing 5% daily auto water change and dose only baking soda, can i get away without cleaning the sandbed? and what are the signs i would observe if the sand get way too dirty? 

 

Then it comes to the second question, how can i grow algae? i mean algae in general cuz i have starving trochus snail thats currently isolated on a flat rock and fed on dried seaweed. My water params:

temp 25 ℃

salinity 1.025 sg
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 7ppm
phosphate 0.06ppm

ca 415ppm

mg 1300ppm
alkalinity 8.4 dKh
ph 8.1

 

I have my light on 12 hours a day at ~33W for a week now but theres zero algae....my best guess is not enough white light?

 

 

more details and timeline is in my build thread. Thanks

 

 

[DaJMasta]

What light do you have?  What do you feed daily/weekly?  Why do you want algae (and what kind?)

Your light is not running that high, so unless you have something reasonably powerful, it may be on the low side for lighting (which may be fine for the leather, but which doesn't encourage algae much).  Feeding more can definitely add more grime/biomass to the system, but may not be required since your parameters are generally alright.  Are you looking for coralline specifically?  A month's time is enough to start to see it, but unless you had it seeded in the tank to begin with, just livestock (without rock attached) and dry rock mean it may not even be present in the system.

[Nano sapiens]

45 minutes ago, Rowena said:

Hi, I have a 20 gallon tank cycled a few weeks ago. Regarding "Is sandbed clean a must?" the reason i ask is i have limited exposed sandbed after putting my toadstool on sand and will be adding a fungia in the future. It will be very hard to clean the sandbed without touching other corals. I have 2 clownfish and wont add any more fish. I also have a nassarius snail (which doesnt stir the sandbed) and a trochus snail and i dont think ill add anymore CUC as both are starved.... I'm doing 5% daily auto water change and dose only baking soda, can i get away without cleaning the sandbed? and what are the signs i would observe if the sand get way too dirty? 

 

Then it comes to the second question, how can i grow algae? i mean algae in general cuz i have starving trochus snail thats currently isolated on a flat rock and fed on dried seaweed. My water params:

temp 25 ℃

salinity 1.025 sg
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 7ppm
phosphate 0.06ppm

ca 415ppm

mg 1300ppm
alkalinity 8.4 dKh
ph 8.1

 

I have my light on 12 hours a day at ~33W for a week now but theres zero algae....my best guess is not enough white light?

 

 

Cleaning the sand bed is one of those topics that you will get plenty of opinions about and there are no hard-set rules (each tank is different).  As it relates to nano tanks, most do at least some cleaning if they intend to keep the tank thriving for a longer period of time.

 

When to begin vacuuming/cleaning really depends on how well stocked the aquarium is and especially how much one feeds.  From what I read here, your system is still very young and likely doesn't have a good amount of detritus.  One test is to turn off flow and pick up some sand to let it fall.  If you were to see a thick cloud (and especially if it's brownish/grayish), then that's a sign for many to start cleaning.  You are not anywhere near that point, especially with 5%/day water changes and the young age of the tank.  The types of filtration that you use will also have an impact on how dirty the sand bed becomes over time.

 

Another option to vacuuming is to disturb the sand bed using a stick, a plastic fork-on-a-stick or a common turkey baster (basically, whatever works best for you) and then capture the stirred up detritus in a filter sock or floss.  I use both vacuuming and basting, actually, but then again I have a very mature nano that doesn't employ any mechanical or chemical filtration.

 

As far as wanting algae to grow the old saying, 'Be careful what you wish for' applies!  Raising nutrients (organics) typically spurs algae growth, so you could:

 

1.  Increase bio load

2.  Feed more to the bio load you currently have

3.  Cut down on amount and frequency of water changes

 

...or any combination of the above.

 

Adding more red light can also enhance algae growth, but not if other nutrients that algae need are limited.

 

[mcarroll]

56 minutes ago, Rowena said:

dose only baking soda

I'm not sure you should have to be dosing baking soda yet....especially if you're changing 5% of your water daily.  How much are your test kits telling you to add? 

 

59 minutes ago, Rowena said:

temp 25 ℃

salinity 1.025 sg
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 7ppm
phosphate 0.06ppm

ca 415ppm

mg 1300ppm
alkalinity 8.4 dKh
ph 8.1

temp is on the low side of "tropical" but still probably fine.  mg is a little low, but not that important.  The rest of the numbers seem pretty good.

 

Continue to watch nitrates and phosphates that they don't go too low...phosphates in particular you do NOT want to be near zero.  👍

[DISQUALIFIED-QQ]

I manage several reefs, and each of them get their own treatment, and of course my clients are extremely satisfied. While my tanks at  home all get the substrate cleaned.

 

I think vacuuming substrate may have originated from the freshwater playbook. Speaking in general terms, vacuuming can help manage nutrients, but replacing water could do the same. I'm probably not answering the question too well, but I don't see why not to vacuuming, yet if it become unfeasible you could just stick a small submersible pump to have old water come out and pour new water back in. Conceptually that's no different from someone running barebottom because...there's no substrate to begin with, haha!

 

Otherwise your water quality results look fine. Don't worry about algae coming. It will in time.

[DevilDuck]

My live stock combo of a sand sifting gobys, conch, snails, 2 pistol shrimps, and a prawn goby all help keep substrate turned over.

[Jakesaw]

9 minutes ago, DevilDuck said:

My live stock combo of a sand sifting gobys, conch, snails, 2 pistol shrimps, and a prawn goby all help keep substrate turned over.

Those sand sifting gobies, do they disturb corals in the sandbet?

 

Do they need the fine sand in order to safely do their sand sifting. My tank is special garde.

 

I've mentally avoided sand sifter gobies for the 2 above reasons,  are my thoughts warranted or unwarranted?

 

Thanks

[Rowena]

Thanks everyone

1 hour ago, DaJMasta said:

What light do you have?  What do you feed daily/weekly?  Why do you want algae (and what kind?)

Im using AI Prime HD 16, PAR value ranges from 100 to 250 from the bottom to the top of my rock structure. I think this is enough for a softies & LSP tank? I feed 1-3 times day with pellet food and frozen brine/mysis, but not a huge amount as nassarius is sometimes hard to find any leftover. The Trochus snail is covered in coraline, i guess that could work as the seed? though im not looking for any specific kind of algae, just want something to feed on the trochus 😞 I just feel bad leaving him on a small rock and feeding him on dried seaweed

 

54 minutes ago, Nano sapiens said:

Right now it looks like you only need a very small CUC, if any at this point.  If you want to grow algae for them, you can take a small rock put it in a small container with tank saltwater and some fertilizer.  Place by a window (or other light source) and see what grows (when rock is covered, place in the aquarium).

 

Thats very informative. i might try leave the rock by window to get some algae started 👍

 

31 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

I'm not sure you should have to be dosing baking soda yet....especially if you're changing 5% of your water daily.  How much are your test kits telling you to add? 

I premix 5 day worth of SW and for some reason my fresh mix has only ~10.3 dKh tho salinity is always right on (red sea coral pro salt) so its not enough to compensate the drop. my alkalinity drops by ~0.3 daily with water change. 

 

[Rowena]

1 minute ago, Jakesaw said:

Those sand sifting gobies, do they disturb corals in the sandbet?

 

Do they need the fine sand in order to safely do their sand sifting. My tank is special garde.

 

I've mentally avoided sand sifter gobies for the 2 above reasons,  are my thoughts warranted or unwarranted?

 

Thanks

im interested as well i heard they can leave sand on fungias/zoas and eventually kills it. 

[DevilDuck]

1 minute ago, Jakesaw said:

Those sand sifting gobies, do they disturb corals in the sandbet?

 

Do they need the fine sand in order to safely do their sand sifting. My tank is special garde.

 

I've mentally avoided sand sifter gobies for the 2 above reasons,  are my thoughts warranted or unwarranted?

 

Thanks

Yes, both of your concerns are warranted. They do need fine sand, and they will knock down and spit sand on frags not securely mounted on the sand bed.

 

[filefishfinatic]

5% awc is ridiculous. your tank is gonna be understocked too and it can be a bad thing. you arent gonna get enough nitrate. what you need is some live rock and you need to lay back on the water changes. you definitley dont need clean sand as long as you dont have cyano or dinoflagettes growing in it or your cat goes missing. sand sifting gobies are a very bad choice especially in new tanks. they consume the contents of the sand rendering your sand bed sterile and the fish will slowly starve. you should never vaccum your substrate unless its crushed coral. it sterilizes it and you will kill your fish because of no bacterias and you will release hydrogen sulphide 

[growsomething]

"you should never vaccum your substrate unless its crushed coral. it sterilizes it and you will kill your fish because of no bacterias and you will release hydrogen sulphide"

I don't think the word you want is sterilize.   Vacuuming doesn't deplete the sandbed of bacteria, pbly some spaghetti worms, etc, but bacteria needs a bactericide to remove it.  If it is so deep it is producing H26, it is anoxic, and probably too deep.  Sand sifters help keep it aerobic, unless a denitrifying dsb is desired.

[PeterU]

4 hours ago, filefishfinatic said:

you should never vaccum your substrate unless its crushed coral. it sterilizes it and you will kill your fish because of no bacterias and you will release hydrogen sulphide 

Wow, I just double and all my fish are still alive