Grandis pally mass spawn. Is it safe?

[LazyFish]

Sooo my grandis pallys started doing there thing then my pink pallys joined in and my new iluminati look like they might have been thinking about it too...maybe...The zoas all closed up tight the trachs and scoly puffed up and acans seemed to be.....enjoying it...untill the wernt now they look mad.  My stomatella were doing it too what the heck!!!!! All I did was replace some very old seachem aminos that I ocasionaly add here and there with a new one today I added brightwell amino acids to the tank and some food and a few hours later what even!!!! 
I'm worried because arnt these the realy toxic ones? Is idk there junk also toxic???  What are the chances these will take over now???!!!  I cramed some more carbon and another bag of chemipure in. I'm kinda scared to touch the water. I do have a few gallons on hand. I'll have to do a water change...pumps and skimmer running full blast right now... I'll post some pics in a bit I've never even seen this before...

[LazyFish]

It's so cloudy I think it's worse. I cant do a water change if stuff is still spawning. I seriously wonder if anything else is spawning my rfa span dosnt take this long to dissipate and the other corals dont even care when they do it.

[LazyFish]

Looks like its finaly over the tank is starting to clear up...

[Tamberav]

Cool as heck!

[LazyFish]

Is it actualy eggs or...could they have alredy been fertilized? Is it technically paly coral larvas its spitting out... I know some coral after being fertilized become planktonic larval corals and the larva then atach and become corals once they settle but that's usualy like hard corals. I dont know what pallys do as far as sexual reproduction goes.

[DevilDuck]

I guess in the next few months you'll either have gradis pallys all over the tank or you'll just have a bunch of very well feed coral! If it's the former, I'd like to call dibs on some frags 🙂

 

[LazyFish]

Everything looks super happy this morning. I'll pull put out the extra filter media tonight nothing's dead so I'm guessing theres no toxin in the water. Guess I can skip feeding a few days lol. My main concern was nuking the tank with palytoxin.

[mcarroll]

I'm glad it seems to have worked out!!  

 

What was the connection between palytoxin and spawning that had you worried?  Seems like the two wouldn't be related.

[banasophia]

I had never heard of this before, but I think palythoa grandis are known to produce palytoxin, so yes, I would be concerned there could be palytoxin in the gametes, or that it could be an issue to have that paly all over my tank. Just saw some articles about them spawning in the wild in Oct/Nov.

[LazyFish]

I was uncertain if it's in the eggs or sperm its releasing it could poison me or the tank. At first the corals were feasting on it but now aparently there is something going on because my lps corals are acting weird especialy acan and pavona and my red gorg wont open all if a sudden. The lps are extending their guts all over themselves at night now like on themselves not trying to reach and attack anything. Its like a wormy white blanket of there own filaments covering themselves. Im not sure if they are removing and digesting gametes that have settled on the flesh or If they are doing it to fend off an irritant. 

The tank was still mildly cloudy the next day I did a 25% water change and it cleared up the pavona is still angry and the red gorg is still closed but the acans looking better.

Having low levels of toxin in the gametes could be an excellent deterrent from things eating them so I would think them having it would be evolutionarily beneficial but idk if its actualy got it.

[banasophia]

1 hour ago, LazyFish said:

Having low levels of toxin in the gametes could be an excellent deterrent from things eating them so I would think them having it would be evolutionarily beneficial but idk if its actualy got it.

That’s what I was thinking too, but I have no actual knowledge about this at all… I would be cautious, take lots of pics to include/document what you’re seeing in your tank, and hopefully someone will chime in with more info on the subject.

 

Your photos of the spawning are great!

[LazyFish]

Pavona had filaments out but also appears to have some receded area now. My dendro also looked very unhappy yesterday and today. It's all sucked in and wont open...my red gorg is also not opening....skimmer is still skimming a bit but it's not being abnormal...doing another 25% water change tomorrow but I'm now scared of stripping too much nutreants from the water. Im not sure if this a nutreant issue or a toxin one. Sonetimes After 2 to 3 weeks when the water is alredy nutreant heavy and due for a change I do very heavy high nutreant broadcast feedings before then changed the water that night or the next day with no issues. The corals actualy react very well to it usualy.The pavona and red gorg were near the pallys idk if that has any affect on what's up with them. The acans are being normal now as is the lepto, trachyphyllia, chalices, favia and softies. Its just the red gorg pavona and dendro seem to be still affected....it also looks like I have an aiptasia I missed killing....getting that tonight.
 

New scoly seems fine too and looking for more too aparently....this is so weird how it's just certain ones that seem bothered.

[growsomething]

Would nutrient issues affect the Palvona and gorg more than the other corals?

[LazyFish]

I dont see why I have other gorgs and lps including incrusting corals including a lepto not that dissimilar to the pavona and they are fine. I'm gona check it again when I get home tonight I'm hoping that's just the filaments and not actual skeleton I'm seeing I've had it a few months but the growth is only just taking off.The dendro and red nps gorg also not looking right. But the pavona is more dramatic atleast the acans seem to be fine now I'm hoping these get back to normal too. The pavona is the closest lps to my pallys. Idk if that's a factor maby it got too much.

[Frag Factory]

Please keep us updated, I've never seen Paly's spawn. It will be interesting to see if they settle.

[Tired]

I would have said that palytoxin is only in the flesh of the coral, as predator deterrent, but I suppose it's possible the eggs are toxic as well for the same reason. I don't think they'd bother making the sperm toxic, since that's just one cell. I'm not sure you even could put all that much toxin in a sperm. The eggs are multi-cellular eggs, like a chicken egg, not just an egg cell, so they could hold toxins. 

 

Hope it all clears up. Please do continue to document. 

[LazyFish]

That was my thinking too that they could contain some low levels or a less potent form of the toxin or something. That's why I was so worried but I'm going to continue keeping an eye on it untill it clears up.

 

[mcarroll]

21 hours ago, LazyFish said:

Its like a wormy white blanket of there own filaments covering themselves. Im not sure if they are removing and digesting gametes that have settled on the flesh or If they are doing it to fend off an irritant. 

Feeding response.  👍

 

Probably a lot more common in the wild where it's more likely for a coral to find food in the water.  Our tanks are very clean, particulately-speaking. 😉 

 

Here's one article on the topic that I happened to save: Extracoelenteric zooplankton feeding is a key mechanism of nutrient acquisition for the scleractinian coral Galaxea fascicularis

 

I would assume the other behaviors you mentioned are related to the recent feeding even as well.  I wouldn't worry.  We're just not used to seeing our corals feed like that.

 

21 hours ago, LazyFish said:

The tank was still mildly cloudy the next day I did a 25% water change and it cleared up the pavona is still angry

I think you may be reading the wrong feelings into this. 😉   

 

I'd suggest that maybe he's just "angry" like you or I might be after a big dinner:

 

 

These humans look "all closed up" don't they? 🙂 

 

21 hours ago, LazyFish said:

Having low levels of toxin in the gametes could be an excellent deterrent from things eating them so I would think them having it would be evolutionarily beneficial but idk if its actualy got it.

A quick search on Google Scholar doesn't suggest that you have anything to worry about.  Articles on Pally reproduction I looked at don't even mention toxins.

 

Anecdotal evidence in the hobby suggests you'd only have a problem if you ripped apart polyps and put them (and the juice) back in the tank.

 

12 hours ago, LazyFish said:

doing another 25% water change tomorrow but I'm now scared

Based on the evidence so far I think you're over-worried.  If the tank doesn't otherwise need a water change, then I suggest to chill out for now.  👍

 

Can you post some current test results for po4 and no3?  (And for comparison some recent/old numbers too?)

 

IMO the corals in your pictures look fine.  👍

[LazyFish]

The pavonia has some receded tissue. I confermed this morning that I can actualy see skeleton in a few places but it appears to be healing itself at this point so things are improving. The red gorg still wont open and the dendro wont open either even for food but it's not closed as tightly... I can try to test tonight. Imbarising but I actualy havent had a chance too do it lately. I keep saying I'm going to do it but I'm so tired I can hardly see straight when I get in literaly.  I've been working 6 or more days a week for more than a month 12 and 14 hours a day with a 1 hr drive back and forth I usualy just crash when I get in.

 

Po4 and no3 levels were never an issue I never bothered to wright anything down when testing unless I was having a problem snd working to correct it cal and alk some months ago were a bit of an issue but was easily corected. Nothing abnormal with po4 no3  in the past that I can recall. I'll try to get some levels tonight.

[mcarroll]

That's a lot of driving!  And a lot of hours!! 🥱

[mcarroll]

 

 

BTW, even if it's just a pencil+3x5 card next to the tank, I highly recommend keeping a log of your test results along with the date and notes (if any).  You can't predict now what all you might learn from it later.  Invaluable.

[LazyFish]

Few days late posting this but

The pavona looking much better much less skeleton showing I saw a bout half the polyps on my gorg open and the dendro was almost open. Everything seems to be bouncing back maby they were just super irritated from all the gametes landing on them or something.

 

Paramiters 
Not perfect but not anything crazy.

Salinity 1.023
 ph 8.1
cal looks like 400 I had a hard time reading for some reason ran it twice might run again later.
alk 8dkh
Po4 0.04
no3 3ppm 

 

I did not run some of the other tests I keep on hand. I just went to bed. Its true I havent kepted up with the testing recently but I've managed to keep up with waterchanges and most general mormal maintenance things even working all the extra hours.

 

These palys do usualy spawn in november in the wild. They are an old and mature colony the largest heads were the ones observed actualy doing the spawning. While the tank wasnt having any major issues curently that I was aware of it did go through quite an extended power outage that included temprature swings and paramiter fluctuations during the last huricane. This very well could have stressed and helped trigger the more mature polyps to form gametes and spawn later on in the year around the regular spawn time once the gametes were mature enough. 
This coral has survived just about everything I could do wrong to it in the very early days I started keeping corals  even at one point degrading down too two dormant white lumps for sevral months at one point. Its been through crashes power outages and even the freeze over the years and it's never done this. This is probly the hardest to kill coral I've ever seen. Probly my first pick for a hard to kill beginner coral. 
At least now Ill know what to expect if they decide to do this again.