Calcium Over 600

[MatthewN]

Hey there. I'm having a hard time getting the right dosing balance. I was using kalkwasser and switched to sodium bicarbonate because my calcium was high and ph low. I'm not sure what the effects of high calcium are on coral or fish. Numbers attached. Any thoughts on either 1) how to reduce calcium, or 2) increase ph without increasing calcium? Thank you!

 

[blasterman]

Water changes are the only way to reduce calcium. High alk has some other tricks.

 

I've found calcium levels over 500 can irritate soft corals and cause palys to lose their skirts. SPS don't seem to care. My preferred range is 400-450.

 

Would I freak out over this? Mmm...only if I saw soft corals start to react badly. If I didn't I would let it ride.  Depending on how much SPS or clams you have in the tank you can be waiting awhile for calcium to drop. 

 

This is the problem with kalk. Unless you have healthy SPS or clams using kalk will result in a high calcium / low alk scenario. Now you are in a corner. 

 

Sodium carbonate or sodium hydroxide raises alk and pH. Sodium hydroxide raises pH a lot and is my go to now. Sodium carbonate is just sodium bicarbonate you've baked in an oven at 300F for about half an hour. That's my first recommendation for dosing alk when your tank doesn't chew up much calcium.  Sodium hydroxide is a bit more advanced.

 

Be careful not to raise alk too much. At a level of 600 calcium will precipitate will fast if alk goes up too high. 

 

 

[MatthewN]

Great advice. Thank you. I do have sodium hydroxide but haven't experimented with it yet. I'll try a water change and then start sodium hydroxide. Thanks again!

[blasterman]

I found sodium hydroxide is best dosed early morning when pH is lowest and it can still impact the critical day cycle when pH needs to be at its highest.

 

1/4 teaspoon raises my 20gal from 7.8 to 8.3, so its really potent. Obviously you want to dose it slowly. 

[mcarroll]

@MatthewN 

 

Your temperature seems quite low if this is supposed to be a tropical tank.

 

Your alk and calcium are both sky-high and mag is down in the dirt.  

 

These conditions are ripe for an abiotic precipitation event.  MY ADVICE IS TO STOP MESSING WITH YOUR PH BEFORE SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS.

 

 

Even if you're experienced, modifying pH is something that there is ABSOLUTELY no need to mess with.   Millions of reef tanks have grown zillions of beautiful corals with just ambient pH levels.  Yours will too!

 

I don't know what your tanks NO3 and PO4 levels are....or if you're ready to dose phosphates and nitrates if needed....but a few good-sized water changes will get your parameters back in the direction of "normal".  BUT...you don't want to grind your nutrient levels too low (phosphate in particular) as that's another potential problem for your corals.

 

So what are your nitrate and phosphate levels now?   And do you have liquid reagents to dose either one if necessary?

[blasterman]

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

@MatthewN 

 

Your temperature seems quite low if this is supposed to be a tropical tank.

 

Your alk and calcium are both sky-high and mag is down in the dirt.  

 

These conditions are ripe for an abiotic precipitation event.  MY ADVICE IS TO STOP MESSING WITH YOUR PH BEFORE SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS.

 

 

Even if you're experienced, modifying pH is something that there is ABSOLUTELY no need to mess with.   Millions of reef tanks have grown zillions of beautiful corals with just ambient pH levels.  Yours will too!

 

I don't know what your tanks NO3 and PO4 levels are....or if you're ready to dose phosphates and nitrates if needed....but a few good-sized water changes will get your parameters back in the direction of "normal".  BUT...you don't want to grind your nutrient levels too low (phosphate in particular) as that's another potential problem for your corals.

 

So what are your nitrate and phosphate levels now?   And do you have liquid reagents to dose either one if necessary?

BS...

 

Another "solve everything with a water change" post. Got hemorrhoids or covid? Do a water change. I haven't done an effing water change on my 20l since I set it up a year and a half ago and I bring buckets of SPS to my reef store. SPS grows out of control.  NO WATER CHANGES EVER.

 

Water changes, especially when they are done for no reason bottom out phosphate. The only reason you should do them is to replenish calcium in small tanks.

 

"Millions of reef tanks".......

 

That's my favorite part. Lets; go through the journal forums here and actually count the number of thriving, healthy tanks that aren't boxes with water and some rocks and some unhappy, stagnant coral. I would say I see one good looking tank out of maybe 50? Lets also count the number of reefers that say 'screw this', can't grow anything besides algae and bail the hobby.

 

Leading cause of those failures is first, salving every problem with a water change and constantly wreaking phosphate and nitrate levels. Kid brother got hooked on meth? Do a water change.

 

Next cause is those so called ambient C02 levels you defend. I keep my pH no lower than 8.2 and left alone my tank will hit 7.6 at nigh next to an open slider.  Manually boosting my pH has had a dramatic effect on everything thing. It's also cheap and easy to do, provided you understand what's going on. OP seems smart enough to understand what's going on and the mistake using calcium hydroxide. 

 

Get calcium in a 400-450 range first, and use sodium carbonate or sodium hydroxide if you have a good pH monitor and enjoy a healthier tank.

 

 

 

 

 

[DaJMasta]

Don't chase pH with additives.  If you want to raise pH, do it with oxygenation or CO2 removal (outdoor airline, CO2 scrubber on skimmer intake, etc.)

 

Your magnesium is pretty low, and calcium and alkalinity are pretty high, so I'd probably do a couple of water changes.  If you don't water change, then just don't dose calcium or alkalinity for a while (and start slow when you resume) and dose some magnesium.  Something above 1300ppm is probably a good direction, but with such high alkalinity and calcium, I would expect your magnesium to be over 1500ppm in similarly scaled parameters (not that this high is good either).  I agree that temperature is low, but probably not enough to be a problem, I would just start to consider changing things if you lose another degree or two.

 

Don't know what the hate on water changes is, you can run a tank basically without but for maintenance, especially of smaller tanks, and for replenishment of trace nutrients and more significant corrective measures, having fresh water at the right parameters is a very easy to manage and very reliable way to solve issues.  If the OP hasn't done a water change in a long time and their magnesium is this low, other minerals have probably also depleted (potassium, for example), which would increase the value of a couple large water changes as well, and they would help lower the relatively excessive calcium and alkalinity levels already present.

 

 

There's more than one approach that can work, but I think you should take a look at some nominal seawater parameter numbers, the numbers expected out of your salt mix, and then at least move in the direction of those, whether that's holding back additives, adding different ones, or probably the simplest option: just changing a decent percentage of the water.

[mcarroll]

14 hours ago, DaJMasta said:

Don't know what the hate on water changes is

It's human.  (The website has tools to filter haters out if you want to tho.  Click their name or avatar.  Then click the little gear icon.)  🤷‍♂️