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ahud

Final Try at Reefing

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ahud
19 hours ago, Clown79 said:

You don't have to have a sump, filter, or skimmer.

 

Many ppl don't have any of this or just 1 of these.

 

You could simply do a large hob and hide the heater in there or convert it to a refugium.

 

Not everyone runs into high nutrient levels. A lot of us have the complete opposite problem.

 

An overly sterile tank is not a healthy tank.

 I have not read much about reefing in years, but now I see people mentioning dosing nitrates when they get low. I thought you wanted those as low as possible. 
 

 

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M. Tournesol

Yes, the philosophy on nitrate changed this last few years. Resumed, corals need nitrate.

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ahud
1 hour ago, M. Tournesol said:

Yes, the philosophy on nitrate changed this last few years. Resumed, corals need nitrate.

I will keep reading. I think the last time I was deep into it, I was getting most of my information from another popular forum and it was 6-7 years ago. 

 

At this point, if the rimless tank I have  is tempered, then I am going the canister route. I don't think a sump is worth going through the effort of swapping out tanks. I do think I will copy MikeyMike with using a easily cleaned prefilter and a chaeto reactor. He also runs GFO, carbon dosing, and doses nutrients...all stuff I need to read up on. Not sure if I will need all of that since I am not even attempting SPS. But I do like the method of picking somebody that has a tank you love and copying them to get started. That has served me well for planted tanks.

 

 

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ahud

Sorry for all of the posting. You folks have really helped with your ideas. 

 

Going down the canister route, have any of you used the Colder Push Lock fitting from BRS? Looks like a way to make the canister and prefilter a breeze to take apart:

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/barb-x-push-lock-adapter.html

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Jakesaw
3 hours ago, ahud said:

 I have not read much about reefing in years, but now I see people mentioning dosing nitrates when they get low. I thought you wanted those as low as possible. 
 

 

Welcome to the learning process of reefing.  I'm in the 2nd inning myself.  Been riding the Low nutrient / DINO issue which is slowly moving in the right direction. 

 

I started dirty feeding and took out my filter pads to up the nutrients.  Then my LFS had a Bicolor Blenny I had always been interested in so I bought - and they threw in an interesting cheap fish along with my purchase.  Dirty feed + 2 new fish in a 10 gallon was a bit much and I caught through testing that I had a little ammonia showing up.  The cheap fish jumped out and carpet surfed and I'm running a pad to pull out excess food til I get my ammonia back to zero and will let tank settle for a month before removing filter again / or adding a 3rd fish. 

 

My corals seemed to like the excess nutrient, as I had a dormant GSP start to extend some polyps again.

 

8 months into the hobby, I'm learning as I go.  Started with no to limited testing, now I'm at least doing a weekly test of Nitrates / Phos and if I see something that is odd or add a fish / dirty feed, I'll test for ammonia to know how my tank is handling excess bioload. 

 

Many of my initial assumptions of zero nutrients are proving to be incorrect, but over time I'm expecting to figure things out.  There is just too much nuance on what to know going into the hobby to know it all and just run.  Even things such as size of tank can make difference in best practices for the hobby.


I'm still trying to figure how those with the 1 gallon tanks keep nutrients up with such small tanks, but maybe those aren't as much about growing coral as keeping alive what they put in em.  

 

Best luck to ya

 

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Clown79
1 hour ago, ahud said:

I will keep reading. I think the last time I was deep into it, I was getting most of my information from another popular forum and it was 6-7 years ago. 

 

At this point, if the rimless tank I have  is tempered, then I am going the canister route. I don't think a sump is worth going through the effort of swapping out tanks. I do think I will copy MikeyMike with using a easily cleaned prefilter and a chaeto reactor. He also runs GFO, carbon dosing, and doses nutrients...all stuff I need to read up on. Not sure if I will need all of that since I am not even attempting SPS. But I do like the method of picking somebody that has a tank you love and copying them to get started. That has served me well for planted tanks.

 

 

Why would anyone dose nutrients and use gfo and a chaeto reactor? Thats so counter productive.

 

Gfo should only be used when/if needed.

 

 

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ahud
32 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Why would anyone dose nutrients and use gfo and a chaeto reactor? Thats so counter productive.

 

Gfo should only be used when/if needed.

 

 

I'm not going to say I understand. Maybe I am misspeaking and he only uses GFO certain times. That is the one bad thing about youtube videos, its hard to piece together what they are doing without watching the video several times. He mentioned he uses GFO to remove silicates to control diatoms. 

 

He for sure said he runs chaeto and does carbon dosing. The way he explained it, his tank consumes nitrate, so its easier for him to control the level by adding versus letting the tank build up nitrate and having to remove it. He prefers that nitrate trends down in his tank versus up. 

 

Edited to add:

This almost reminds me of the EI method in planted tanks. You dose excess nutrients, but do weekly 50% water changes to reset the level. What he is doing is a little more complex, but seems like the same train of thought. 

 

 

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jservedio
9 minutes ago, ahud said:

He mentioned he uses GFO to remove silicates to control diatoms.

Are you sure he isn't talking about running his RODI through GFO to remove silicates?

 

If he isn't and is talking about filtering water from his tank through GFO to remove silicates, this is total and complete nonsense. GFO will preferentially bind with phosphate before it binds with silicates, so if your GFO ever gets to the point of soaking up silicates, you are in serious trouble.

 

I very, very strongly suggest keeping the tank as simple as possible and not using things like GFO, reactors, dosing nutrients, carbon dosing, dosing random crap unless you have a verifiable need and more importantly, fully understand exactly what something is doing on a chemical and biological level in your tank.

 

A canister filter isn't a bad idea as a place to run a little filter floss and maybe a tiny bit of carbon, but anything beyond that you should avoid until you have a problem, confirmed via testing, that needs to be solved.

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Clown79
2 minutes ago, jservedio said:

Are you sure he isn't talking about running his RODI through GFO to remove silicates?

 

If he isn't and is talking about filtering water from his tank through GFO to remove silicates, this is total and complete nonsense. GFO will preferentially bind with phosphate before it binds with silicates, so if your GFO ever gets to the point of soaking up silicates, you are in serious trouble.

 

I very, very strongly suggest keeping the tank as simple as possible and not using things like GFO, reactors, dosing nutrients, carbon dosing, dosing random crap unless you have a verifiable need and more importantly, fully understand exactly what something is doing on a chemical and biological level in your tank.

 

A canister filter isn't a bad idea as a place to run a little filter floss and maybe a tiny bit of carbon, but anything beyond that you should avoid until you have a problem, confirmed via testing, that needs to be solved.

100% ^ 

 

Spot on !

 

 

Gfo, carbon dosing, reactors - often cause more problems and headaches than anyone wants.

 

Why make things so bloody complicated when we all know keeping things simple is far better and easier.

 

Try diagnosing a problem when there are so many factors involved vs when you have minimal factors.

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ahud
1 minute ago, jservedio said:

Are you sure he isn't talking about running his RODI through GFO to remove silicates?

 

If he isn't and is talking about filtering water from his tank through GFO to remove silicates, this is total and complete nonsense. GFO will preferentially bind with phosphate before it binds with silicates, so if your GFO ever gets to the point of soaking up silicates, you are in serious trouble.

 

I very, very strongly suggest keeping the tank as simple as possible and not using things like GFO, reactors, dosing nutrients, carbon dosing, dosing random crap unless you have a verifiable need and more importantly, fully understand exactly what something is doing on a chemical and biological level in your tank.

 

A canister filter isn't a bad idea as a place to run a little filter floss and maybe a tiny bit of carbon, but anything beyond that you should avoid until you have a problem, confirmed via testing, that needs to be solved.

I just re-watched where he breaks down his system and he does say there is GFO and carbon in his canister.I still don't understand if that is a 24/7/365 deal or as needed. 

 

Thanks for the advice. I'm just using his tank as a launching point because its so nice. He for sure has the canister routine down. The dosing regimen maybe is geared towards the tank being SPS dominated? I'm not sure...I want to keep it simple with easy corals. So maybe I don't need anything beyond his equipment setup. 

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M. Tournesol

 

1 hour ago, ahud said:

I just re-watched where he breaks down his system and he does say there is GFO and carbon in his canister.I still don't understand if that is a 24/7/365 deal or as needed. 

 

Thanks for the advice. I'm just using his tank as a launching point because its so nice. He for sure has the canister routine down. The dosing regimen maybe is geared towards the tank being SPS dominated? I'm not sure...I want to keep it simple with easy corals. So maybe I don't need anything beyond his equipment setup. 

Dosing shouldn't be considered at the start. You need a more established reef before needing it. The only dosing that I would consider at the start would be phyto. I personally dose the phyto gel Easy Reefs easybooster nano.

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filefishfinatic
2 hours ago, ahud said:

I'm not going to say I understand. Maybe I am misspeaking and he only uses GFO certain times. That is the one bad thing about youtube videos, its hard to piece together what they are doing without watching the video several times. He mentioned he uses GFO to remove silicates to control diatoms. 

 

He for sure said he runs chaeto and does carbon dosing. The way he explained it, his tank consumes nitrate, so its easier for him to control the level by adding versus letting the tank build up nitrate and having to remove it. He prefers that nitrate trends down in his tank versus up. 

 

Edited to add:

This almost reminds me of the EI method in planted tanks. You dose excess nutrients, but do weekly 50% water changes to reset the level. What he is doing is a little more complex, but seems like the same train of thought. 

 

 

lasse does that. he tries to nutrient recycle and control nutrients. ei dosing isnt that good. best way to do it is pure 100% nutrient recycling where in theroy you never have to feed or dose or water change. 

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InAtTheDeepEnd

When you're first starting out keep it as simple as possible for yourself. Be careful of emulating a single person too, especially if you're copying what you see on social media - they won't be broadcasting everything and clever video editing be pretty deceptive. Very few people are going to show the ugly stages of running tanks where you have blooms and problems and have to trial various solutions before finding one that works, but in reality that's what happens. 

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jservedio
2 hours ago, ahud said:

I just re-watched where he breaks down his system and he does say there is GFO and carbon in his canister.I still don't understand if that is a 24/7/365 deal or as needed. 

 

Thanks for the advice. I'm just using his tank as a launching point because its so nice. He for sure has the canister routine down. The dosing regimen maybe is geared towards the tank being SPS dominated? I'm not sure...I want to keep it simple with easy corals. So maybe I don't need anything beyond his equipment setup. 

Keeping and maintaining a new and immature tank with a few small coral frags and a couple fish is entirely incomparable to a mature tank that is packed wall to wall with huge, rapidly growing colonies and dozens of fish. Every single tank has different requirements and needs and those needs change constantly over time.

 

You can't simply copy and paste someone else's successful system and expect it to work for you. Your system is entirely different and if you don't understand the reasoning and science behind why a particular reefer is doing something they way they are, you are doomed to fail if you try to blindly copy it. This is why it is so important to start with the basics, because you can understand how and why things work the way they do. As your experience and knowledge base grows and you begin to understand your system, you can add complexity to make your life easier. The key to doing that is understanding the how and why of every decision you make for your system.

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ahud
12 minutes ago, jservedio said:

Keeping and maintaining a new and immature tank with a few small coral frags and a couple fish is entirely incomparable to a mature tank that is packed wall to wall with huge, rapidly growing colonies and dozens of fish. Every single tank has different requirements and needs and those needs change constantly over time.

 

You can't simply copy and paste someone else's successful system and expect it to work for you. Your system is entirely different and if you don't understand the reasoning and science behind why a particular reefer is doing something they way they are, you are doomed to fail if you try to blindly copy it. This is why it is so important to start with the basics, because you can understand how and why things work the way they do. As your experience and knowledge base grows and you begin to understand your system, you can add complexity to make your life easier. The key to doing that is understanding the how and why of every decision you make for your system.

Yeah, I'm more enamored with the aesthetic he pulled off. His tank is just interesting. Which makes me want to know what he is doing. If I'm using a canister, I think using what he has come up with as a template and adjust from there is a good way to start.

 

I have no interest in trying SPS, the juice does not seem worth the squeeze. So I realize he is doing things that may not be applicable to what I am trying to create.

 

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ahud

Speaking of complicating and gear. I'm close enough to Black Friday that I will probably wait around that time to get some stuff.

 

Power head:

I thought the MP10 would be the way to go, but the new ones are getting bad reviews? I see the little Nero pumps seem well liked?

 

 

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Clown79
44 minutes ago, InAtTheDeepEnd said:

When you're first starting out keep it as simple as possible for yourself. Be careful of emulating a single person too, especially if you're copying what you see on social media - they won't be broadcasting everything and clever video editing be pretty deceptive. Very few people are going to show the ugly stages of running tanks where you have blooms and problems and have to trial various solutions before finding one that works, but in reality that's what happens. 

This is so true.

 

On here we have all admitted to our ups and downs, the mistakes, the lessons learned.

 

 

 

Unfortunately you rarely see that on youtube

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M. Tournesol
8 minutes ago, ahud said:

Yeah, I'm more enamored with the aesthetic he pulled off. His tank is just interesting. Which makes me want to know what he is doing. If I'm using a canister, I think using what he has come up with as a template and adjust from there is a good way to start.

 

I have no interest in trying SPS, the juice does not seem worth the squeeze. So I realize he is doing things that may not be applicable to what I am trying to create.

 

You shouldn't bane yourself of sps keeping. Some are so easy that they can/will become invasive (poccilopora / montipora).

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NoOneLikesADryTang
3 minutes ago, ahud said:

Speaking of complicating and gear. I'm close enough to Black Friday that I will probably wait around that time to get some stuff.

 

Power head:

I thought the MP10 would be the way to go, but the new ones are getting bad reviews? I see the little Nero pumps seem well liked?

 

 

We have both MP10s, and MP40s, on tanks, as well as a Nero 3 on a tank. 
 

Both are quality products. I really prefer the clean look of the MPs, but I think the controllability and functionality of the Nero is more impressive. 

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M. Tournesol

Love my Nero 3 (never owned a MP10/40).

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ahud
2 minutes ago, M. Tournesol said:

You shouldn't bane yourself of sps keeping. Some are so easy that they can/will become invasive (poccilopora / montipora).

I'll look into it then. Once I get the rock work set, I want to do a coral layout and purchase based on that versus just buying stuff randomly. 

 

Just seems like there are so many sad cases of SPS getting RTN and dying...all those years gone. 

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ahud
4 minutes ago, NoOneLikesADryTang said:

We have both MP10s, and MP40s, on tanks, as well as a Nero 3 on a tank. 
 

Both are quality products. I really prefer the clean look of the MPs, but I think the controllability and functionality of the Nero is more impressive. 

Did you have any issues with noise or the impeller shaft breaking into pieces? I was surprised some of the reviews. The vortechs are too pricey to have many issues IMO.. 

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NoOneLikesADryTang
Just now, ahud said:

Did you have any issues with noise or the impeller shaft breaking into pieces? I was surprised some of the reviews. The vortechs are too pricey to have many issues IMO.. 

Nope. All of our vortechs have been rock solid. I did have an issue once, with an MP40 I’d bought from a buddy. It wouldn’t connect - I called Ecotech’s support, and they were fantastic. Turned out, the MP40 was still synced to his Apex. Once I had him disconnect it, it worked flawlessly, and has for the last year and a half. 

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Jaren45
8 minutes ago, ahud said:

Did you have any issues with noise or the impeller shaft breaking into pieces? I was surprised some of the reviews. The vortechs are too pricey to have many issues IMO.. 

I still have an 8 year old mp40 wet side in use with no issues. The biggest thing I like about these pumps is their ability to be repaired, everything can be completely stripped down and replaced when it wears. No other power head I know of can really compare, that being said they are very expensive and I would never pay full price, the 2 I have were both used.

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ahud

Update:

 

Polarized glasses came in and.....I can't tell anything. Looked through my rimless tank, some aqeon 40 breeders I have, my shop windows, everything looks the same....Maybe its the glasses I bought, they have a blue tint. Someone said try a polarized lens for a camera, might try that. When I rotate the glasses, they get darker, but they never completely black out. 

 

Purchased two AI Prime HD used with mounts used. Tang mentioned I could spray paint these, so I am going to look into that once they arrive and I confirm they work appropriately. 

 

I have some work to do in my detached garage (75 ft from the house), adding a sink and setting up the RO/DI stuff out there. I'll have to carry water inside the house, but that can't be helped. The wife and I agreed that all fish junk stays in my space lol. She had no issue with the reef tank going into my office, so I'll try and keep the attached garage fish free as thanks.

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