This Ain't A Scene, It's Another Fluval 13.5g

[W1ll]

I have to agree with what others have said here, your fish were certainly already sick when you bought them. I am sure that if there were any chemical in windex potent enough to kill your fish in a matter of hours, it would almost certainly affect your corals as well. I am very sorry to hear of your loss. Personally I would do a couple large water changes and just let the tank do its thing for at least a month before adding anymore fish. However, if things are looking alright a few weeks from now, it probably wouldn't hurt to add a few more corals to the system to keep things interesting seeing as your current corals are doing ok. 

[horseysurprise]

Thank you both for this input. You might be right - after all banasophie did ask if the fish were sick when she saw em. 
 

so, I dosed with a bit of seachem prime after the murder event happened, to eliminate any potential ammonia or anything else toxic (also, it doesn’t hurt, why not?). The snails and crabs were very lethargic yesterday but are doing great now, much more active. And, the corals looks GREAT. What’s both of your opinions on that? Does it support my LFS guys story or do you think it’s a disease issue? Cause again, banasophie called it pretty early, so I’m inclined to believe her opinion.. I don’t have the experience to recognize the stuff you are seeing. But the fact the snails were literally not moving versus now makes me think that the prime may have helped.

 

at any rate, I’m letting the tank sit for a month before I try to add anything new. Should be enough time to eliminate any potential diseases that may be there I hope? Thank you both for the support and input, it’s seriously so helpful and very reassuring. 

 

and on a positive note - coral pics since they are doing great 
 

 

 

 

[horseysurprise]

37 minutes ago, W1ll said:

I have to agree with what others have said here, your fish were certainly already sick when you bought them. I am sure that if there were any chemical in windex potent enough to kill your fish in a matter of hours, it would almost certainly affect your corals as well. I am very sorry to hear of your loss. Personally I would do a couple large water changes and just let the tank do its thing for at least a month before adding anymore fish. However, if things are looking alright a few weeks from now, it probably wouldn't hurt to add a few more corals to the system to keep things interesting seeing as your current corals are doing ok. 

Thank you, and I concur - I’m a patient guy, waiting a month to be safe won’t hurt. Also a bit of penance since I do feel awful those fish died in my care. I like watching the snails and crabs so it’s plenty interesting for now 🙂 

[horseysurprise]

On 10/18/2021 at 8:17 AM, banasophia said:

Sorry about your fish. 😢 I agree with @hooligan_78 it was not the windex. Looked like maybe velvet to me in the pics, but I’m no fish disease expert. What were your ammonia and nitrite levels, and salinity? You should see if you can do some research and figure out what it most likely was because if it was velvet or ich you need to keep your tank fallow with no fish for a period of time so the disease dies off and doesn’t infect/kill more fish you add to the system. 
 

Also agree with @hooligan_78 to consider a different type of clownfish for a nano tank when it comes time to add new fish. Take this time to do more research. I know it’s a lot to figure out in the beginning, just try to take your time.  

I’m an idiot who owns no test kits of his own, but salinity was 1024-1025 ish and temp is 73 solid. I’m changing that and ordering my own test kits next week tho. 
 

As for the clowns, yeah, my LFS guy forgot I have a smaller tank but he also didn’t think it was an issue. This is the point I should probably drift away from just doing whatever he says, based off everyone’s input. 
 

edit: my temp was set at 75, not 73. But I am still raising it to 78 (see later response). 

Edited October 20, 2021 by horseysurprise
Fixing error on temp

[hooligan_78]

Temp’s a little low man. Needs to be 77-80 tops. But as far as the tanks at the LFS, it’s like licking a public water fountain, or roulette. But it is what it is.

[banasophia]

Yes agree, temp should be kept around 78-80. 
 

I believe the fallow period is at least 6 weeks for ich, velvet, and brooklynella. You should look up these diseases and see if you can try to figure out if your fish had one of those diseases. The best person for fish disease info is Humblefish when you are doing your research.

 

 

 

[debbeach13]

Sorry about the fish. I agree with every one, those fish were already sick when you got them. Also agree those fish were not a good choice for a nano. That tank 13.5 is very popular since you will have to wait before trying any new fish you check out some of the journals for that tank you can see what fish choices have worked for other members. 

[horseysurprise]

17 hours ago, banasophia said:

Yes agree, temp should be kept around 78-80. 
 

I believe the fallow period is at least 6 weeks for ich, velvet, and brooklynella. You should look up these diseases and see if you can try to figure out if your fish had one of those diseases. The best person for fish disease info is Humblefish when you are doing your research.

 

 

 

None of them looked sick or had trouble breathing, but again, what do I know about diagnosing fish? How would I go about deciding if they were sick? 
 

I did raise tank temp to 78 based on suggestions. I also did not have a power head pointing at the surface of the water, so I wonder if lack of oxygen in the water is what killed the fish and made the tank lethargic. I fixed that the same time I added the prime, after doing some frantic googling for what may have hurt my tank. 
 

I think the 6 weeks thing is safe whether there was a sickness or not - just to be safe. What likely happened is the two clowns died at night (sickness or stress or ???) and the shrimp died from the ammonia spike (since judging by its last resting place it was still alive when the fish were dead). The rest of the tank, crabs and snails were lethargic but the prime fixed the ammonia spike after I removed the two fish, likely several hours after they died. 

 

here’s my one question for any who know - all crabs and snails are doing great now, none died. Star is also alive. Sand looks dirty enough for now but should I worry about food for the CUC in the near future? Should I drop in a cube of fish food next week to make sure the algae can grow and thus the CUC can eat? Or something similar? 
 

and also, tank being fallow, the CUC is still there - hopefully velvet ich etc doesn’t affect them? They seem fine. 

[debbeach13]

Algae pellets work good for CUC or any pellets really

[horseysurprise]

15 minutes ago, debbeach13 said:

Algae pellets work good for CUC or any pellets really

Perfect, thank you! How often do you think? Is once a week ok? I was told every other day for the two fish but it’s clearly not that now. 

[stevie1493]

1 hour ago, horseysurprise said:

Perfect, thank you! How often do you think? Is once a week ok? I was told every other day for the two fish but it’s clearly not that now. 

I'm a big believer that I want and do eat every day, so my pets should eat every day (including fish).

 

If I was in your shoes I would put a teeny bit of food (a flake the size of my pinky nail or just a couple of small pellets) in every day to sustain  livestock until the fallow period is over and fish are able to return.

 

My thinking is that you'll be in the habit of feeding daily which is good to be prepared for fish..and you will be more in touch with your tank by interacting with it every day. If you test nutrients and they start to get high you could scale back to every other day or every third day during the fallow period.

 

Most hobbyists that I know with fish that have lived for a decade or more feed very liberally. I'm sure there are other folks that have had longevity with less feedings..

 

Just my .02

[horseysurprise]

19 hours ago, stevie1493 said:

I'm a big believer that I want and do eat every day, so my pets should eat every day (including fish).

 

If I was in your shoes I would put a teeny bit of food (a flake the size of my pinky nail or just a couple of small pellets) in every day to sustain  livestock until the fallow period is over and fish are able to return.

 

My thinking is that you'll be in the habit of feeding daily which is good to be prepared for fish..and you will be more in touch with your tank by interacting with it every day. If you test nutrients and they start to get high you could scale back to every other day or every third day during the fallow period.

 

Most hobbyists that I know with fish that have lived for a decade or more feed very liberally. I'm sure there are other folks that have had longevity with less feedings..

 

Just my .02

Your two cents are very much appreciated. Literally any and all suggestions are haha. Thank you! I do have a full test kit arriving tomorrow and I’m gonna start keeping my parameters logged.
 

Any suggestions for food brands for algae pellets? Wanna save the actual frozen fish food for when the fish return, and also the pieces are much too large to drop In. I also do like the idea of interacting daily with my tank. 

[stevie1493]

28 minutes ago, horseysurprise said:

Any suggestions for food brands for algae pellets?

I have not used any specific brand. I buy stuff that is made locally and sold at my LFS.

 

28 minutes ago, horseysurprise said:

Wanna save the actual frozen fish food for when the fish return, and also the pieces are much too large to drop In.

I have an old knife I use just for fish food and cut the cubes into quarters or eighths. Since I have always had small fish and small tanks I usually throw my packs of frozen out before I use it all. I personally wouldn't worry about saving it.

[debbeach13]

I use a very sharp knife and slice slivers like garlic. I also think since you have food use it.

[horseysurprise]

54 minutes ago, stevie1493 said:

I have an old knife I use just for fish food and cut the cubes into quarters or eighths. Since I have always had small fish and small tanks I usually throw my packs of frozen out before I use it all. I personally wouldn't worry about saving it.

Stevie- thank you that’s solid advice. I’ll just keep dropping in the frozen stuff. I’m sure it’s better for them anyways. Looks like the excess just gets caught in my filter floss which I can simply remove before it becomes an issue. 
 

38 minutes ago, debbeach13 said:

I use a very sharp knife and slice slivers like garlic. I also think since you have food use it.

deb - thank you and that’s a solid idea also. It looks like garlic is great for reef tanks? Seachem includes it in all their foods for vitamin C and as an appetite enhancer it looks like. 
 

I snagged some seachem nutridiet flakes off Amazon (only $8 why not) and will keep that as a reserve. My tank water is very clean so I worry about them running out of food, but they also seem very happy right now so I am not TOO concerned yet. Just wanna be proactive and keep everyone happy 

[W1ll]

1 hour ago, horseysurprise said:

Your two cents are very much appreciated. Literally any and all suggestions are haha. Thank you! I do have a full test kit arriving tomorrow and I’m gonna start keeping my parameters logged.
 

Any suggestions for food brands for algae pellets? Wanna save the actual frozen fish food for when the fish return, and also the pieces are much too large to drop In. I also do like the idea of interacting daily with my tank. 

I just use plain nori seaweed sheets from my local grocer that are meant for rolling sushi, they're very cheap and all my critters seem to love them. 

[stevie1493]

10 minutes ago, horseysurprise said:

It looks like garlic is great for reef tanks?

This is somewhat controversial. Garlic initiates a strong feeding response in some finnicky eaters or fish that otherwise won't eat, but to my knowledge we simply don't fully understand how fish digestion is impacted by a food item that is not in their natural environment. 

 

Some people swear by it but I'm skeptical. I think garlic could potentially save a fish by initiating a feeding response if it otherwise wasn't eating. I personally doubt garlic is some magic fish super food like some make it out to be. I suspect it's possible that over time it could actually cause digestive issues.

[horseysurprise]

2 hours ago, W1ll said:

I just use plain nori seaweed sheets from my local grocer that are meant for rolling sushi, they're very cheap and all my critters seem to love them. 

Is this good long term? I don’t know the nutritional requirements of snails and crabs but being CUC I imagine it’s not complicated 

2 hours ago, stevie1493 said:

This is somewhat controversial. Garlic initiates a strong feeding response in some finnicky eaters or fish that otherwise won't eat, but to my knowledge we simply don't fully understand how fish digestion is impacted by a food item that is not in their natural environment. 

 

Some people swear by it but I'm skeptical. I think garlic could potentially save a fish by initiating a feeding response if it otherwise wasn't eating. I personally doubt garlic is some magic fish super food like some make it out to be. I suspect it's possible that over time it could actually cause digestive issues.

It seems seachem uses garlic as like a spice, or a slight enhancer, which I think is likely OK since I trust that brand. Likely not more than 1-2% of the flake. At my current noob level I certainly wouldn’t drop any food in the tank that’s not specifically put together for fish, because I really don’t have the experience to tell when I’m messing everything up - aside from the above seaweed suggestion, that’s not the first time I’ve heard that and seaweed is in their natural environment already. But I’d be really wary of additives and salts etc so again it’s simple to just use actual fish flakes made by a reputable company 

[debbeach13]

Just to be clear. I cut frozen cubes like I slice garlic. I do not put sliced garlic in the tank.

[W1ll]

On 10/21/2021 at 12:59 PM, horseysurprise said:

Is this good long term? I don’t know the nutritional requirements of snails and crabs but being CUC I imagine it’s not complicated 

Yes its perfectly fine long term, nori should only be used as dietary supplement. Even in a relatively new aquarium, so long as your regularly feeding the tank, your CUC will be able to scavenge other morsels of food and detritus to contribute to their diet. 

[horseysurprise]

So… I’m now seeing the crabs die for some reason. One the other day; and found two today. They’re always ripped from their shells. But I don’t see any empty shells in the tank..?

 

edit: I’m stupid huh? They’re just molting aren’t they?

 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by horseysurprise
I’m dumb

[W1ll]

11 hours ago, horseysurprise said:

So… I’m now seeing the crabs die for some reason. One the other day; and found two today. They’re always ripped from their shells. But I don’t see any empty shells in the tank..?

 

edit: I’m stupid huh? They’re just molting aren’t they?

 

 

Yep, they're just molts. I typically leave them in the tank as the crabs themselves will often consume them. 

[hooligan_78]

I had a hermit molt, couldn't find a shell, so lived out of a hole in a rock for months. It looked like a creepy hand puppet popping in and out for food.

[horseysurprise]

Is this what I think it is … 😔 fml. Of course I’d get aptasia. Looks like it’s time for a peppermint shrimp 

 

 

[W1ll]

5 hours ago, horseysurprise said:

Is this what I think it is … 😔 fml. Of course I’d get aptasia. Looks like it’s time for a peppermint shrimp 

 

 

That is indeed an aptasia. Don't fret too much, IMO they're not the horrible tank destroyers that many people label them as, I only bother removing them in my tank if they get too big or bother any corals. If its just the one aptasia you can see, you could try squirting some gel superglue over it to smother it, I have had good success with this in the past as long as your generous with the glue. Other than that, a peppermint shrimp will probably work as well.