Preparing new salt water help...

[justinkdenny]

I have been gradually raising my alk in my nano 10 gallon.  I have it running about 8.2 right now but my brightwell salt usually mixes about 7.7 so I need to raise my new saltwater alk up some.  Melev's reef did a video about adding soda ash to new water to raise alk but I can't find a calculator that will tell me how much to dose to raise a gallon of 7.7. to 8.2.  The calculator Mark  (Melev) uses says I need to add 0.0 ml to raise it.  Does anyone know how much I would need to add to raise it that much or even know how much tropic marin all for reef I would need to use?  All the calculators I find aren't very helpful.

 

Thanks,

 

Justin

[empresto]

Hey Justin,

 

You could try the BRS calculator.  They have an option for alkalinity changes using soda ash.  They are expecting you're using their pharma grade soda ash, but it should be the same for any other soda ash.  If you choose the dry option it will give you a value in grams.

 

Aquarium & Reef Calculators - Bulk Reef Supply

 

Of course, test the water again after you've dosed! 🙂

[Clown79]

Why are you trying to raise alk? 

 

Your target alk should be what your salt mixes at otherwise you will constantly have fluctuations or will need to alter your newly made saltwater by dosing alk and ca. 

 

Both will need dosing in equal parts as when 1 rises the other 1 drops. So as you are raising your alk, if you aren't warching/dosing CA, it will drop and you will have a new problem. 

 

Its far easier switching to a salt that has the parameters you want rather than having to dose newly made saltwater with every water change.

 

Its also cheaper because you will spend $$ on testing and dosing. Thats testing your Sw before dosing, and after to ensure its correct.

[justinkdenny]

thanks guys for the info!

[banasophia]

Following 🙂 

 

I’d love to know what you end up doing. I switched from a low alk to high alk salt a few months back and wondered how best to transition. 

Adjusting your saltwater to the alk you want before adding to your tank makes good sense to me. 

 

Do you have sensitive corals in the tank that you are worried about alk changes you’d get if you just dose the tank to adjust? I should have done my transition more gradually… 

[banasophia]

Also, you could post in the MelevsReef Facebook group… Marc is quite responsive and may be able to help with questions about his video. 

[banasophia]

22 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Why are you trying to raise alk? 

 

Your target alk should be what your salt mixes at otherwise you will constantly have fluctuations or will need to alter your newly made saltwater by dosing alk and ca. 

 

Both will need dosing in equal parts as when 1 rises the other 1 drops. So as you are raising your alk, if you aren't warching/dosing CA, it will drop and you will have a new problem. 

 

Its far easier switching to a salt that has the parameters you want rather than having to dose newly made saltwater with every water change.

 

Its also cheaper because you will spend $$ on testing and dosing. Thats testing your Sw before dosing, and after to ensure its correct.

I think the OP is saying they are trying to raise their alkalinity and are doing so gradually.
 

I think it make sense to do it this way in the saltwater before adding to the tank since sensitive corals can be damaged by an alkalinity change.
 

My impression is that an alkalinity change is much more of a concern than a calcium change. I’m no expert at all, but this seems like a totally reasonable approach and question. Am I missing something here? 

[Clown79]

5 minutes ago, banasophia said:

I think the OP is saying they are trying to raise their alkalinity and are doing so gradually.
 

I think it make sense to do it this way in the saltwater before adding to the tank since sensitive corals can be damaged by an alkalinity change.
 

My impression is that an alkalinity change is much more of a concern than a calcium change. I’m no expert at all, but this seems like a totally reasonable approach and question. Am I missing something here? 

Their salt mixes at 7.7 and they want alk at 8.2(maybe higher)

 

That means with every waterchange, the op will need to dose the new SW and test alk and Ca before doing waterchanges.

 

That gets costly and tedious, i've been through it.

 

It cost a lot less in time and money to use a salt that mixes at the levels I wanted/needed.

[banasophia]

2 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Their salt mixes at 7.7 and they want alk at 8.2(maybe higher)

 

That means with every waterchange, the op will need to dose the new SW and test alk and Ca before doing waterchanges.

 

That gets costly and tedious, i've been through it.

 

It cost a lot less in time and money to use a salt that mixes at the levels I wanted/needed.

I guess but that wasn’t really the question… And if they switch salt like you mention, wouldn’t they need to do exactly what they are asking about as they are converting? 

[Clown79]

38 minutes ago, banasophia said:

I guess but that wasn’t really the question… And if they switch salt like you mention, wouldn’t they need to do exactly what they are asking about as they are converting? 

No. You just do regular water changes, not huge waterchanges but just regular weekly waterchanges. The levels change gradually without fluctuations. 

 

It may not have been the question but how can one answer a question without knowing purpose or cause for such a change?

 

 

We know that 7.7, 8.2, 9, 10 alk are all fine. Consistancy is far more important than trying to achieve an alk level for no reason at all. 

 

If anything high alk is more risky than 7.7 which is a normal alk level. 

 

Offering valid advice is never a bad thing.

If the OP wants to chase numbers, dose, and spend money they will choose to. 

 

I offered a much easier method of achieving the goal. 

[justinkdenny]

On 9/1/2021 at 11:08 AM, banasophia said:

Following 🙂 

 

I’d love to know what you end up doing. I switched from a low alk to high alk salt a few months back and wondered how best to transition. 

Adjusting your saltwater to the alk you want before adding to your tank makes good sense to me. 

 

Do you have sensitive corals in the tank that you are worried about alk changes you’d get if you just dose the tank to adjust? I should have done my transition more gradually… 

I honestly don't plan to switch salts.  I have read horror stories about switching salts so I know that Mark Levenson, who I think really knows what he's doing, uses soda ash to make sure there are no alk swings when he does a water change.  Before I knew what I was doing, wait I still don't know what I'm doing after a bunch of years lol, I did a water change using reef crystals and wreaked my tank.  I found out the hard way you need to test alk of your tank and new saltwater since that batch of salt was like 12 dkh and my tank was at like 8.  Small water changes in a massive tank I think wouldn't make much of a difference but a 2 gallon water change in a nuvo 10 is a problem.  To answer your question about sensitive corals, I have been trying to keep some easy sps but mostly zoas and mushrooms with  a few others notably a frogspawn so pretty easy stuff in theory.  I can't keep zoas for the life of me though.  I understand what Clown79 is saying though.  It would be easier to match salt.  I just wanted to try to run my alk a little higher to encourage better growth.

[mitten_reef]

12 minutes ago, justinkdenny said:

I just wanted to try to run my alk a little higher to encourage better growth.

alkalinity probably isn't a rate-limiting factor of your growth, coral nutrition (photosynthetic, the balance of N&P, and actual feeding) will likely be the driving factor.  unless if alk gets consumed so fast, you need to dose, then you're already dosing anyway, then raise it via dosage. 

 

if you can't grow zoas, something is off with the tank, either too clean or too low light.  yes, they're not light demanding, but they do like more light than most people give them credit for.  having too clean of a tank, or too low light will pretty much slow down growth on everything in the tank, and increasing alk won't magically boost the growth.

 

[Clown79]

22 minutes ago, justinkdenny said:

I honestly don't plan to switch salts.  I have read horror stories about switching salts so I know that Mark Levenson, who I think really knows what he's doing, uses soda ash to make sure there are no alk swings when he does a water change.  Before I knew what I was doing, wait I still don't know what I'm doing after a bunch of years lol, I did a water change using reef crystals and wreaked my tank.  I found out the hard way you need to test alk of your tank and new saltwater since that batch of salt was like 12 dkh and my tank was at like 8.  Small water changes in a massive tank I think wouldn't make much of a difference but a 2 gallon water change in a nuvo 10 is a problem.  To answer your question about sensitive corals, I have been trying to keep some easy sps but mostly zoas and mushrooms with  a few others notably a frogspawn so pretty easy stuff in theory.  I can't keep zoas for the life of me though.  I understand what Clown79 is saying though.  It would be easier to match salt.  I just wanted to try to run my alk a little higher to encourage better growth.

 

 

Yes doing a large waterchange with salts with drastic alk level differences will cause havoc.

 

going from 8 to 12 is drastic

 

 

my alk in my tanks after waterchanges increased by small increments over months because i kept my waterchanges small- 10% which was 1g in my 10g nuvo and 2g in my lagoon. 

 

Never had any disaster occur from changing salts.

 

If you did 2g in a 10g, with a salt with extremely high alk, it would cause issues.

 

Higher alk doesn't mean more growth. Stability is far more important than increasing your alk.

 

There is nothing wrong with 7.7, 8.2, 9 etc

 Keeping it stable is more important.

 

There are other factors with coral growth. Stability,  Nutrient levels and being fed are important. 

[justinkdenny]

18 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

alkalinity probably isn't a rate-limiting factor of your growth, coral nutrition (photosynthetic, the balance of N&P, and actual feeding) will likely be the driving factor.  unless if alk gets consumed so fast, you need to dose, then you're already dosing anyway, then raise it via dosage. 

 

if you can't grow zoas, something is off with the tank, either too clean or too low light.  yes, they're not light demanding, but they do like more light than most people give them credit for.  having too clean of a tank, or too low light will pretty much slow down growth on everything in the tank, and increasing alk won't magically boost the growth.

 

I'm already dosing with a kamour doser 12 times a day in small increments to keep up with the demand of the usage.  I think my zoa issue is low nutrients that I have been trying to raise but having trouble.  I dose nitrates daily and still almost at zero.  I also have baby snails of some sort (i don't think they are sundials though) and emerald crabs that may be irritating them.