New to forums and the hobby! Got a fluvial 13.5 gal, tips?

[horseysurprise]

Title basically sums it up. My tank arrived and I wanted to reach out for any tips on how to get this thing started. I've done a ton of reading .. been meaning to do this since pre-COVID. But the initial setup questions are what I could really use help on!

Basically - I plan to use distilled water and mix with salt, and drop that into the tank with some (live, I think) sand. Later add live rock, wait to see what comes out, then start picking small things like shrimp. Very interested in the whole living ecosystem thing, so eventually would like corals too. A reefer friend told me to get API quick start and seachem prime for conditioning the water, which I will use, and I have no problem waiting out a long initial cycle regardless but I want to keep as much things alive on the live sand + live rock as possible.

Anyways, to my pressing questions. What live (or not live) sand to get? What about salt brands? And what about live rock? LFS in my area aren't great, so I am looking at delivering if possible. Any tips for a newbie are extremely welcome! And while I have been reading through the beginner guides, I am still specifically lost on picking out brands and types - pointing me in the direction of a list or some resources would be appreciated. And of course feel free to pick apart my tentative "plan" too, as well. Thanks all!

[WormLicker]

12 minutes ago, horseysurprise said:

What about salt brands? 

I'm pretty new, (first saltwater tank) and the reefpro salt is easy peasy. I was worried mixing salt would be difficult, but turns out it's very straightforward. Reefpro brand also buffers your pH and includes the trace elements and stuff like that. I used Caribsea sand, I like it a lot. I've been warned to avoid very fine substrates, so personally I went with medium grit and I like it a lot !

Good luck, have fun !

[horseysurprise]

38 minutes ago, WormLicker said:

I'm pretty new, (first saltwater tank) and the reefpro salt is easy peasy. I was worried mixing salt would be difficult, but turns out it's very straightforward. Reefpro brand also buffers your pH and includes the trace elements and stuff like that. I used Caribsea sand, I like it a lot. I've been warned to avoid very fine substrates, so personally I went with medium grit and I like it a lot !

Good luck, have fun !

I've heard the same re: grit size. Confirms my getting caribsea - was already looking at it haha. I'll probably follow your salt suggestion as well. Thanks for the help!

[Jakesaw]

kIf you're using Distilled water, you can skip the Seachem Prime.  Thats for conditioning tap water to remove heavy metals, chlorine and chloramine.  Tap water generally not recommended for reef tanks as it can cause problems in your tank

 

Live sand is just sand with saltwater with some live bacteria in it.   You can turn dead sand into live sand with a live starter bacteria like Bio-Spira or just the nitrogen cycle will do it over time. 

 

before you add any fish you'll want to get your tank cycled so the tank can handle biological filtration that your aquatic life will need to survive.  You will need your sand and rock to be populated with bacteria to break down the biological load of food, poop, resporation in your aquariium.   IT's generally done with live rock you buy live or turn " live " over time through a nitrogen cycle. 

 

There are plenty of books or websites you can read for cycling your tank.  I'll let others speak on the specifics of how to do this or you can go a google search.  But have your test kits before starting the cycle to test for Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite.   Otherwise you're just guessing.

 

common methods = Live Rock is fastest

Dry rock with starter bacteria + Dr Tim's Ammonia Chloride or other source of ammonia

 

For mixing salt, spend 20 bucks and get a refractometer from Amazon.  It'll give you consistent mix and it's easy to test your water as needed. 

 

 

[horseysurprise]

7 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

kIf you're using Distilled water, you can skip the Seachem Prime.  Thats for conditioning tap water to remove heavy metals, chlorine and chloramine.  Tap water generally not recommended for reef tanks as it can cause problems in your tank

 

Live sand is just sand with saltwater with some live bacteria in it.   You can turn dead sand into live sand with a live starter bacteria like Bio-Spira or just the nitrogen cycle will do it over time. 

 

before you add any fish you'll want to get your tank cycled so the tank can handle biological filtration that your aquatic life will need to survive.  You will need your sand and rock to be populated with bacteria to break down the biological load of food, poop, resporation in your aquariium.   IT's generally done with live rock you buy live or turn " live " over time through a nitrogen cycle. 

 

There are plenty of books or websites you can read for cycling your tank.  I'll let others speak on the specifics of how to do this or you can go a google search.  But have your test kits before starting the cycle to test for Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite.   Otherwise you're just guessing.

 

common methods = Live Rock is fastest

Dry rock with starter bacteria + Dr Tim's Ammonia Chloride or other source of ammonia

 

For mixing salt, spend 20 bucks and get a refractometer from Amazon.  It'll give you consistent mix and it's easy to test your water as needed. 

 

 

Ty for all of this - yeah there's plenty of resources here for cycling a tank luckily. Definitely snagging a refractometer, and probably going to go with some live rock as well

The point of test kits is just to check and ensure all are at zero, correct? So I can lag on the test kit for a few days I'd think, and guides seem to tell you to test constantly but don't tell you what to do with those numbers - I figure waiting a while then testing is the best course of action?

[Jakesaw]

https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling/

 

I was kindof haphazzard as I started my cycle before I got my test kits.  Was a bit stressful but worked out well in the end. 

 

I used some live rock and dead rock poured a bottle of Bio Spira in, waited two weeks per my LFS recommendation and put in baby clownfish which is a hearty fish.  I haven't followed a strict fishless cycle which is why I'm not offering specific advice.

 

But biological filtration is first step in healthy fish tank if you want healthy livestock.

[WormLicker]

Oh, and I wish I had seeded copepods when I was done cycling. They did end up in my tank as hitchhikers and have established a population, but if I ever did this again I'd start with those. They would have been interesting to watch when the aquarium was basically empty and not ready for other critters. 

[stevie1493]

3 hours ago, horseysurprise said:

Anyways, to my pressing questions. What live (or not live) sand to get? What about salt brands? And what about live rock? LFS in my area aren't great, so I am looking at delivering if possible. Any tips for a newbie are extremely welcome! And while I have been reading through the beginner guides, I am still specifically lost on picking out brands and types - pointing me in the direction of a list or some resources would be appreciated. And of course feel free to pick apart my tentative "plan" too, as well. Thanks all

One tip I have for salt brands is to find out what salt mix your main livestock supplier is using and consider using that. My hypothesis is that this makes acclimation easier and reduces the chance for losses. I may just be full of it though xD

 

The reality is that most salt mixes are suitable and it's mostly preference. If you're on a budget Instant Ocean and Reef crystals are both great for FOWLR and Reef tanks respectively...they're what I use and are a great (if not the best) value. 

 

You may have already read about this but I'd strongly consider the cost-benefit of live vs dry rock. I used live rock in my first tank which came with snails, hermit crabs, pods, 4 different soft corals, a peppermint shrimp... It was FANTASTIC for the first 6-12 months! It made me addicted to the hobby and the sheer diversity in reef tanks as compared to freshwater...BUT, when vermetids took over the tank by the thousands I got so overwhelmed that it contributed to my tearing the tank down... My current tank is all dry rock because I never want to put up with anything like that again.

 

Ultimately I think live rock is a great option, just be prepared to intervene with any hitchhikers before they reach plague proportions. MelevsReef critter ID is a fantastic resource.

 

[Clown79]

Hello and Welcome

 

 

 caribsea is most readily available.  you can get dry or live sand, either option. Dry will become live. 

 

 

You don't need conditioner for distilled. Its pure water. Just ensure you don't use reminerlized distilled. 

 

Having a small bottle of Prime on hand is good for emergencies but you don't need to condition the distilled water.

 

Salt. There are many brands and types. Everyone has a preference. I liked salts that have a mid range for parameters. My favourite was red sea blue bucket, i liked coral pro too but alk was too high. 

Most common brands used

 

Red Sea

Instant ocean

Fritz

Tropic marin

 

 

 

Test kits. To start get Api ammonia, nitrite, nitrate.

 

For alk and other parameters you want different brands like salifert, red sea, or hanna(if you do corals)

 

Live rock vs dry rock

 

Real live rock thats either from the ocean or established tank, will bring in tons of beneficial life(sometimes hitch hikers too)

This rock can be hard to get and costly. 

Its also easy to cycle. You only need to test the tank

 

Dry reef rock, well its devoid of life and needs a full cycle. You need to add an ammonia source(Dr tims) and bacteria(bio spira)

 

 

Tips:

 

Heaters - eheim jagger or aqueon pro both great heaters

 

Remember you will need to top up with fresh water not SW. Ato is recommended but you can top up daily.

 

Powerheads/wavemakers- hydor koralia, sicce, tunze, ai nero, mp10

 

 

media basket! and run custome media. Ditch the stock stuff.

I believe intank makes one for your tank.

 

get a refractometer.

 

Go through TOTM and member journals. There is tons of info in them that is so helpful. 

[Jakesaw]

59 minutes ago, stevie1493 said:

I used live rock in my first tank which came with snails, hermit crabs, pods, 4 different soft corals, a peppermint shrimp... It was FANTASTIC for the first 6-12 months! It made me addicted to the hobby and the sheer diversity in reef tanks as compared to freshwater...BUT, when vermetids took over the tank by the thousands I got so overwhelmed that it contributed to my tearing the tank down... My current tank is all dry rock because I never want to put up with anything like that again.

 

Ultimately I think live rock is a great option, just be prepared to intervene with any hitchhikers before they reach plague proportions. MelevsReef critter ID is a fantastic resource.

 

Reading about Live Rock pests like you mention was why I really was set against live rocks( whether it be right or wrong ).  That and the cost, I'm trying to run a budget Reef tank.  Ultimately to speed a cycle I picked up some man made purple painted Live rock in a bin from LFS.  Had bacteria but not much in the way of hitchhikers. 

 

Today I have an update.  One of my rocks actually did have a critter of sorts that has in 8 months grown out.  It's about an inch in diameter circular body that's attached to ROCK and has tentacles.  Looks similar to an anemone of sorts. 

 

My clown was hanging out between 2 rocks where I'm not used to seeing him, and a closer look at the tank is when I saw this newly discovered creature.  Have to admit, as long as it doesn't cause problems was a pretty cool discovery.  Maybe the clown wants to be a host. 

[stevie1493]

34 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

It's about an inch in diameter circular body that's attached to ROCK and has tentacles.  Looks similar to an anemone of sorts. 

Sounds like an aiptasia... you'll want to confirm what it is ASAP. If it's aiptasia you're going to want to remove that rock from the tank ASAP or attempt to kill it before your tank looks like this.

[stevie1493]

Not to hijack the thread...but I have considered buying corals, bits of LR with Coraline on them, and corals from my LFS for awhile, but I just can't get myself to do it because I know they have aiptasia in their system and I just can't convince myself to put something in my tank that I know came from a tank with aiptasia.

 

I would rather pay the premium and buy them from a trusted online source. The LFS in my area has a great selection of most livestock but their husbandry is subpar at best. OP mentions the LFS in their area isn't great...I'm interested to know what makes them say that

[Clown79]

28 minutes ago, stevie1493 said:

Sounds like an aiptasia... you'll want to confirm what it is ASAP. If it's aiptasia you're going to want to remove that rock from the tank ASAP or attempt to kill it before your tank looks like this.

This happens when you intentionally don't do anything about aiptasia 

 

They really aren't that horrible and easy to zap with aiptasia x.

 

You can easily get them even from reputable places that appear to have no aiptasia. 

Aiptasia moves and hides. It could be a tiny piece in a crack of a frag plug.

 

There is 1 way to never have aiptasia- no tank at all. 

[stevie1493]

2 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

You can easily get them even from reputable places that appear to have no aiptasia. 

Aiptasia moves and hides. It could be a tiny piece in a crack of a frag plug.

So you would buy from an LFS that has an active aiptasia problem? I'm asking because I seriously want to buy stuff from them like clams, LR, corals, etc, but I just can't convince myself to do so when I see all those little buggers in their tanks.

 

I know there are no guarantees online vendors will be pest free. It's different when I see some holding tanks at the LFS that have dozens of aiptasia in them though. Like I know 100% that I am visually identifying a pest and then buy stuff from that tank...I can't get myself to do it, but it sucks losing out on the convenience not buying stuff local.

[Jakesaw]

56 minutes ago, stevie1493 said:

Sounds like an aiptasia... you'll want to confirm what it is ASAP. If it's aiptasia you're going to want to remove that rock from the tank ASAP or attempt to kill it before your tank looks like this.

Thanks, I'll look closer at it tomorrow.  I only got a side view of it. The tentacles are similar to that but  much shorter.  It also looks like the mouth is mounted to the rock vs a stem that branches out.  If it were aptasia, wouldn't it have spread more within the 8 months my tank has been running?

 

I'll know more tomorrow.  If it's aptasia, how do I get rid of / kill it.  I don't want my tank looking like that.   

[stevie1493]

22 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

Thanks, I'll look closer at it tomorrow.  I only got a side view of it. The tentacles are similar to that but  much shorter.  It also looks like the mouth is mounted to the rock vs a stem that branches out.  If it were aptasia, wouldn't it have spread more within the 8 months my tank has been running?

 

I'll know more tomorrow.  If it's aptasia, how do I get rid of / kill it.  I don't want my tank looking like that.   

I only ever had aiptasia once and as soon as I got a positive ID on it I removed that one rock from my tank, let it completely dry out, and then eventually put it back in. Never seen another one in that tank. @Clown79 mentions Aiptasia-X which I have only heard good things about but have never used - I agree that they move and hide so my tank may have still had them. I also had peppermint shrimp which are known to eat them...maybe they ate the baby aiptasia before I ever seen them? Who knows. Aiptasia has been known to plague a tank and then retreat after being aggressively treated only to return in numbers later... it is resilient and bounces back once in a system and difficult to eradicate.  It could have came in on something else you added to the tank? 

 

Most important thing is to act before one becomes two becomes four, etc, etc..

 

Sorry OP for blatantly stealing your thread!!!

[horseysurprise]

Loving the discussion that sprung out of this, learning a lot. I had planned on eventually using peppermint shrimp to avoid the Aiptasia plague .. and the person who suggested copepods, they prevent bubble algae so I will look into those too before adding livestock. Maybe also corraline algae

Heres another big question - test these parameters, that's all well and good. But how do we adjust them? Any products for that? There's obvious ones like nitrates and nitrites, just take time. Ammonia also, for the first cycle. Water changes to reduce. What about pH levels, alkaline, stuff like that? Are water changes the only solution for a post-cycle nitrate spike?

 

 

[Jakesaw]

27 minutes ago, horseysurprise said:

Loving the discussion that sprung out of this, learning a lot. I had planned on eventually using peppermint shrimp to avoid the Aiptasia plague .. and the person who suggested copepods, they prevent bubble algae so I will look into those too before adding livestock. Maybe also corraline algae

Heres another big question - test these parameters, that's all well and good. But how do we adjust them? Any products for that? There's obvious ones like nitrates and nitrites, just take time. Ammonia also, for the first cycle. Water changes to reduce. What about pH levels, alkaline, stuff like that? Are water changes the only solution for a post-cycle nitrate spike?

 

 

I'm still an 8 month Newbie, but worrying about something like bubble Algae that you may never see seems like a waste of thought to me ( in my limited experience ).  Most of my aquarium Fears so far have been ( False Evidence Appearing Real ).  The " maybe aptasia " is a new one that will be dealt with and learned from. 

 

I think the hobby is a journey and a process of time that has a different path for each tank and person. 

 

If you have no critters in your tank, no need to do a water change for ammonia.  The bacteria will grow in numbers to process it over time  That's what the nitrogen cycle is all about.  The testing of Nitrates / Nitrites after adding the recommended amount of ammonia to tank just lets you know when your tank has enough bacteria to process a reasonable amount of ammonia fast enough to introduce life safely to the tank.

 

Your tank will bioligically adapt over time to whatever life you put in it, assuming you don't overstock it.

[stevie1493]

48 minutes ago, horseysurprise said:

Heres another big question - test these parameters, that's all well and good. But how do we adjust them? Any products for that? There's obvious ones like nitrates and nitrites, just take time. Ammonia also, for the first cycle. Water changes to reduce. What about pH levels, alkaline, stuff like that? Are water changes the only solution for a post-cycle nitrate spike?

Water changes are not the only solution but they are usually the easiest and most cost effective. I myself was captured by chasing params in the beginning and attempted to constantly tinker with different products and additives until I realized it was just creating instability and wasting money. Everything in my tank was happy, healthy and doing well...I didn't need to be adding anything other than fresh saltwater while doing a WC.

 

In bigger tanks additives become more cost effective than WC because of scale. Think about a 10% WC on your tank compared to a 180g. Think about something bad happening and needing to do a large 50%+ WC.... Adding in kH, cal, and mag with additives becomes so much cheaper than buying huge batches of salt and doing WC every week or so.

 

During cycling I test Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, salinity, pH, and temperature. Ammonia and Nitrite don't need to be tested after the cycle unless something is going wrong. pH shouldn't be ignored after the cycle is over but is usually only tested during WC or when a tank is experiencing problems.

 

Once the tank has cycled I monitor temp every day, salinity (sg) a few days a week, and I test Nitrate (NO3) and Phosphate (PO4) once per week.

 

Once corals are added it's necessary to  regularly test for alkalinity (1x/week), calcium(2x/mo), and magnesium(1x/mo) in addition to sg, NO3, PO4 weekly. Keep in mind this is just my baseline..other reefers will have different ideas on testing based on what they stock, how heavily stocked they are, how mature their tanks are, etc.

 

Nitrate doesn't really spike. It gradually goes up over time which is why regular testing is important to identify a trend. Say if you know your tank goes up 2ppm/week, you'll have 8ppm in a month. This will help you set up a WC schedule that will keep them manegeable. Skimmers, refugiums, carbon and other medias can be a part but aren't necessary. A tank as small as yours could probably get by with a nice 25-50% weekly WC which would be pretty easy. Let the salt you pay for do the heavy lifting.

[horseysurprise]

Big thank you to everyone. Jakesaw - you’re right about the bubble algae, I’m overthinking it. Thanks for the assist on understanding what the cycle does. And Stevie - that makes sense, and yeah water changes sound like the easiest choice for

a smaller tank. 
 

I ended up finding a local (he runs an aquarium maintenance / sales business out of his garage ever since the LFS he was at closed due to lockdowns) and he hooked me up with live sand, live rock, some saltwater from an established tank and some tips also. I have a mix of that saltwater and (conditioned) tap water + salt that are now sitting in the tank, and dropped in some QuickStart for good measure. Gonna give it a good month to cycle and then go from there. Will also have a RO/DI setup going by then
 

Included a (cloudy because new) pic of todays setup 🙂 

 

[Jakesaw]

Looks good.  Cloudy is pretty normal for new tank - especially with Live sand b/c you can't rinse it before use.  The aquascape is nice too.