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Minireeftank

UV light

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Minireeftank

I have a fluval evo 13.5 tank and I am waiting for a replacement light which, due to the current circumstances may take over a week to arrive, so I’m looking for a suitable temporary light from Amazon, most ones I see I can’t tell if they’re suitable for corals cause I’m not sure if full spectrum includes UV, does anyone have any expirience with small uv lights or have any suggestions? :)

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blasterman

UV and violet is not required for coral growth. You've got a couple of loudmouths on YouTube (BRS) pushing it because they make money selling those lights. I have the UV and violet channels turned off in my XR15 because they just generate heat. I have massive coral growth. 

 

Any 20/40 watt water proof flood light you can get from Amazon or Home Improvement store will work fine. These are primarily cool white around 6000k and mostly blue spectrum. Tank will look ugly, but corals will love the daylight balanced light.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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jservedio
16 minutes ago, blasterman said:

UV and violet is not required for coral growth. You've got a couple of loudmouths on YouTube (BRS) pushing it because they make money selling those lights. I have the UV and violet channels turned off in my XR15 because they just generate heat. I have massive coral growth. 

While UVA/Violet is not required for coral growth, UVA and Violet have a ton of direct benefits in a reef tank - especially if you are growing shallow water species. First off, 400-430nm UVA and Violet LEDs are PAR monsters for chlorophyll a and several carotenoids, delivering more PAR per watt than 465nm RB, so they are more efficient. Secondly, coral coloration in shallow water species (like acro) is directly affected by UV radiation through development of photoprotective pigmentation. And third, and most obviously to anyone with a pair of eyes: fluorescence.

 

UV/Violet are not simply gimmicks...

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blasterman
2 hours ago, jservedio said:

While UVA/Violet is not required for coral growth, UVA and Violet have a ton of direct benefits in a reef tank - especially if you are growing shallow water species. First off, 400-430nm UVA and Violet LEDs are PAR monsters for chlorophyll a and several carotenoids, delivering more PAR per watt than 465nm RB, so they are more efficient. Secondly, coral coloration in shallow water species (like acro) is directly affected by UV radiation through development of photoprotective pigmentation. And third, and most obviously to anyone with a pair of eyes: fluorescence.

 

UV/Violet are not simply gimmicks...

 

Yes, they are effing gimmicks. We ran halides for decades with no issues with lack of violet given most reef halides have little output in the 400-430nm region. Want to see the graphs?

 

Dana Riddle and the rest of the carnival barkers pushing spectral band photosynthesis don't even have reef tanks. They are just paid cases of beer by the owner of reef2reef to write weird articles and push forum traffic. Stop quoting what you read on R2R without understanding it.

 

First off, 400-430nm UVA and Violet LEDs are PAR monsters

 

Let me crush that one like a tin can. While 430nm has better chlorophyll conversion than 450nm due to simple quantum mechanics the bigger dog in the room is violet and 395nm LEDs have drastically lower energy conversion efficacy that 450nm LEDs. This is a fact of semi conductor industry. A 3watt 450nm LED has far more radiometric output than a 430nm 3watt LED and drastically more than a 395nm per watt. Any gain in quantum conversion at the biologic level is more than lost at the efficacy energy  conversion level. There's a reason LEDs use 445-450nm as the primary emission point to engage secondary phosphors. That's because shorter wavelengths cost energy.

 

 In regards to your eyes, better go back to science class. The further violet the light source is the less it's visible to the eye. Corals don't care if it's 460nm or 420nm. It's just a photon of energy. The more violet you have in a tank the darker it is. I have a reef tank to look at it. Not glow zoanthids like a black light poster. I've had 440nm LEDs specially made in China and they didn't grow corals any damn better than 452nm Crees. They just used more energy to get the same PAR level and made my tank look darker. If you see 440nm LEDs advertised on electronic sites I'm the guy who pushed them...and regret it.

 

The biggest problem I have with your comment is it black lists many light makers in the industry for no reason. I've ran many, many black boxes and DIY over my tank that have no LEDs over than royals and whites and they grow corals like a boss. What you are saying is because two clowns at BRS are pushing their own brands of light I suddenly need to add a a couple Epistar 395 LEDs because Dana Riddle says I need them based on in vitro tests of coral pigments. 

 

I run a Radion XR15, and I think there's maybe two cheesy UV LEDs in it. You're trying to tell me adding 3watts of 395nm LED is going to radically change the growth of my SPS. Yeah...right. Reefers need to focus on nutrient mgmt and stop worrying about over priced lights they will end up turning down anyways. 

 

The 6000k shoplight I mentioned above will grow coral better than any light you can buy at BRS. Want to put money on it? How much? Want to ask any large scale coral farmer using augmented light if they prefer 6000k or UV / violet? 

 

I met Sanjay Joshi a few years ago at a reef meet and he was disgusted with the whole UV / Violet push and felt it was hurting the hobby. He was downright angry and indignant over the subject. Joshi has a PhD and some spectacular monster SPS tanks. Riddle, and the rest of the "I will host a lecture for a case of beer" don't have reef tanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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jservedio
3 hours ago, blasterman said:

 

Yes, they are effing gimmicks. We ran halides for decades with no issues with lack of violet given most reef halides have little output in the 400-430nm region. Want to see the graphs?

 

Dana Riddle and the rest of the carnival barkers pushing spectral band photosynthesis don't even have reef tanks. They are just paid cases of beer by the owner of reef2reef to write weird articles and push forum traffic. Stop quoting what you read on R2R without understanding it.

 

First off, 400-430nm UVA and Violet LEDs are PAR monsters

 

Let me crush that one like a tin can. While 430nm has better chlorophyll conversion than 450nm due to simple quantum mechanics the bigger dog in the room is violet and 395nm LEDs have drastically lower energy conversion efficacy that 450nm LEDs. This is a fact of semi conductor industry. A 3watt 450nm LED has far more radiometric output than a 430nm 3watt LED and drastically more than a 395nm per watt. Any gain in quantum conversion at the biologic level is more than lost at the efficacy energy  conversion level. There's a reason LEDs use 445-450nm as the primary emission point to engage secondary phosphors. That's because shorter wavelengths cost energy.

 

 In regards to your eyes, better go back to science class. The further violet the light source is the less it's visible to the eye. Corals don't care if it's 460nm or 420nm. It's just a photon of energy. The more violet you have in a tank the darker it is. I have a reef tank to look at it. Not glow zoanthids like a black light poster. I've had 440nm LEDs specially made in China and they didn't grow corals any damn better than 452nm Crees. They just used more energy to get the same PAR level and made my tank look darker. If you see 440nm LEDs advertised on electronic sites I'm the guy who pushed them...and regret it.

 

The biggest problem I have with your comment is it black lists many light makers in the industry for no reason. I've ran many, many black boxes and DIY over my tank that have no LEDs over than royals and whites and they grow corals like a boss. What you are saying is because two clowns at BRS are pushing their own brands of light I suddenly need to add a a couple Epistar 395 LEDs because Dana Riddle says I need them based on in vitro tests of coral pigments. 

 

I run a Radion XR15, and I think there's maybe two cheesy UV LEDs in it. You're trying to tell me adding 3watts of 395nm LED is going to radically change the growth of my SPS. Yeah...right. Reefers need to focus on nutrient mgmt and stop worrying about over priced lights they will end up turning down anyways. 

 

The 6000k shoplight I mentioned above will grow coral better than any light you can buy at BRS. Want to put money on it? How much? Want to ask any large scale coral farmer using augmented light if they prefer 6000k or UV / violet? 

 

I met Sanjay Joshi a few years ago at a reef meet and he was disgusted with the whole UV / Violet push and felt it was hurting the hobby. He was downright angry and indignant over the subject. Joshi has a PhD and some spectacular monster SPS tanks. Riddle, and the rest of the "I will host a lecture for a case of beer" don't have reef tanks.

 

First of all I am not getting my information from R2R, but actual scientific journals. Yes, a 3w 450nm LED radiates more than a 3w 430nm LED, but does it radiate more than 27x what the 430nm does? Because chlorophyll a quite literally absorbs 27x more energy at 430nm compared to 450nm (https://omlc.org/spectra/PhotochemCAD/html/123.html).

 

I never once said UV/Violet makes things grow faster or better, however it is an absolute fact that UV radiation affects coloration of your corals, particularly shallow and deep water species. The photoprotective pigmentation in our corals are a direct response to reducing UV damage in shallow water (and awesomely, also increasing the PAR available in deeper water by shifting light to more friendly spectums): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11130722/

 

In regards to my eyes I don't need to go back to science class, I was talking about fluorescence from corals. There are tons of fluorescent proteins in corals and a few of them (particularly the cyan and blues) have excitation wavelengths well below 450nm. Take a look at this which shows the excitation and emission spectrums for various fluorescent proteins. Maybe you just don't care about that? You don't need more than a few watts of light at 400-430nm to see the dramatic increase in emission from the fluorescent proteins.

 

goog4_request&X-Goog-Date=20210805T22300

 

I don't care what the big names in reefing say, I care about what actual, real scientific research says. If I listened to the "experts" in the reefing field I'd never have gotten an LED fixture a decade ago when Mike Palletta was claiming LEDs caused all of his LPS to die...

 

UV is not a gimmick. Just because you personally don't find a benefit because it doesn't make your corals grow faster and you don't care about coloration or fluorescence doesn't make it a gimmick. Do LED manufacturers wildly overstate the benefits of UV? Of course they do. But that doesn't mean there is no benefit at all...

 

Also - I'd love to see some pictures of your tank.

 

I'm not going to respond to any of the other straw man stuff because I never disagreed that you can grow coral just fine with a shop light and I never suggested that UV/Violet was better than anything. I was simply disagreeing with your conclusion that UV/Violet were gimmicks when they have verifiable roles in coral biology.

 

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Clown79

I always ran my UV and Violets, the colour pop was far better than my corals under lights  without them.

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Murphych

I'm no lighting expert and if I'm honest don't understand a great deal about wavelength etc. But I do know my coral react well to VU light and I like the colour of the overall tank, fish and coral under it, compared to not having them on. I'll stick with them... Maybe even one day I'll educate myself in what it all means at a deeper level.. for now my eyes are telling me good things... 

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BriggTrim

Hi....at the cost of an UV unit, I could have a raely decent CO2 arrangement, so that covers green growth AND expands my plant development enormously, and for the expense of substitution bulbs I can simply purchase and supplant Purigen, channel floss, carbon and so on and still have cash left toward the finish of a year.

UV additionally doesn't contact anything developing on surface regions inside the tank, where as an appropriately offset tank with a CO2 framework will indeed hinder green growth developing on surfaces inside the tank.

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DevilDuck

Move your tank over to that sunny window until your replacement light comes.

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