Ignorance Induced Issues

[bones6966]

Hey all,

 

So due mainly to my ignorance and lack of reading prior to making decisions I have caused my self and more so my mollies a few issues. 

I was talking to a guy at the pet store that told me I acclimate my mollies to saltwater.  So over the course of a week or two i have slowly added the salt to the water I change out and am now at proper reef salt levels. 

 

I neglected to read up on any of this and I noticed my mollies rubbing on the side of the live rock I just put in the tank. I believe I messed the cycle of the tank up and am now starting over in my cycle. I bought a proper test kit to see where I'm at and how much I messed it up. The numbers are concerning to me and I am looking for some help on how to fix them and how to keep my fish comfortable/safe until the cycle is sorted out. I feel absolutely terrible for neglecting to think ahead and now my fish are the victims. 

 

Tank is 30 Gal and home to 5 mollies and a few guppies.

I have about 9 Lbs of live rock in the tank and 3 inch of crushed coral substrate in the bottom

 

The numbers are as follows. 

 

PH                  - 8

Ammonia       - 1 PPM

Nitrite            - 2 PPM

Nitrate           - 5 PPM

 

Ammonia has gone up from 0.5 last night, Nitrite up from 0.5 Nitrate up from high 5 last night. 

Should I change a large part of the water? Will that hurt the cycle? How do I move forward? 

 

Thanks for your help guys.

[M. Tournesol]

Water change will not stop the cycle but juste slow it down. 

Do water change to lower your ammonia or us an ammonia neutralizer.

"Water changes are important in maintaining the proper water quality in an aquarium.2  They will help lower the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate levels in the aquarium water and keep the fish healthy. Some people make the mistake of performing a partial water change in a marine aquarium to reduce ammonia levels during the cycling process. Normally, when ammonia levels go up, the pH drops at the same time. By performing a partial water change, the total ammonia levels may drop slightly, but the pH will also rise (the buffering effect of new saltwater), increasing the toxicity of the remaining ammonia. A safer method to reduce the ammonia levels would be to use an ammonia neutralizing product such as Amquel, then perform a water change to "freshen" the water. The ammonia neutralizing products bind ammonia into a non-toxic form until they are broken down by the bacteria in the biofilter, or removed through water changes."

https://www.thesprucepets.com/ammonia-toxicity-reduction-in-aquariums-2924171

 

 

[M. Tournesol]

For example "Stop Ammo" from prodibio.

[bones6966]

4 minutes ago, M. Tournesol said:

Water change will not stop the cycle but just slow it down. 

Do water change to lower your ammonia or us an ammonia neutralizer.

"Water changes are important in maintaining the proper water quality in an aquarium.2  They will help lower the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate levels in the aquarium water and keep the fish healthy. Some people make the mistake of performing a partial water change in a marine aquarium to reduce ammonia levels during the cycling process. Normally, when ammonia levels go up, the pH drops at the same time. By performing a partial water change, the total ammonia levels may drop slightly, but the pH will also rise (the buffering effect of new saltwater), increasing the toxicity of the remaining ammonia. A safer method to reduce the ammonia levels would be to use an ammonia neutralizing product such as Amquel, then perform a water change to "freshen" the water. The ammonia neutralizing products bind ammonia into a non-toxic form until they are broken down by the bacteria in the biofilter, or removed through water changes."

https://www.thesprucepets.com/ammonia-toxicity-reduction-in-aquariums-2924171

 

 

Thanks for the reply, 

 

I will look for and ammonia neutralizer. Hopefully that will make them a bit more comfortable. 

Will another few lbs of live rock help the cycle go a bit faster? or should i just be patient at this point?

[M. Tournesol]

True live rocks (taken out of the sea or out of an aquarium) can add some ammonia as their transport creates die off.

[seabass]

Definitely use an ammonia detoxifier like Amquel or Prime as soon as possible.  Those ammonia levels are deadly to fish.

 

21 minutes ago, M. Tournesol said:

The ammonia neutralizing products bind ammonia into a non-toxic form until they are broken down by the bacteria in the biofilter, or removed through water changes.

I believe they just temporarily convert ammonia to ammonium, which is less harmful.  After 24 to 48 hours, the detoxifier becomes ineffective, so you need to continue to dose.  It's true the the biofilter can still process ammonium like it does ammonia, so the cycle is not broken by its use.

 

12 minutes ago, bones6966 said:

Will another few lbs of live rock help the cycle go a bit faster? or should i just be patient at this point?

If you want additional rock, then cycle the rock in a separate container before adding it to your tank with fish in it.

[M. Tournesol]

This is a golden guide about ammonia in saltwater (see sections: "Treatments for Elevated Ammonia:  ... " )

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php

[bones6966]

Thanks for all the help guys.
An additional question for my own understanding. 

 

Since the Nitrite went up since yesterday, as well as the Nitrate. That means that the cycle is at least partially active yes? I will continue to monitor daily or possibly am/pm due to the toxicity of the chemicals, until ammonia and Nitrite are at 0 PPM.

 

The marine store next town over opens in an hour and Ill be going there asap. 

 

Thanks again everyone. 

[seabass]

The ammonia detoxifier will likely affect your ammonia test kit.  When using a detoxifier, I usually recommend a Seachem Ammonia Alert badge, which aren't affected by the detoxifier and only tests for free ammonia (versus total ammonia).  Plus, they continually monitor your tank for ammonia.

 

People tend to use the terms spike and cycle interchangeably; however, the nitrogen cycle is a continuous process.  Typically, with an established cycle, ammonia and nitrite are undetectable; but ammonia is constantly being converted to nitrite, and nitrite is constantly being converted to nitrate.

 

The fact that you see nitrate means that the bacteria strains are present.  But being able to measure ammonia and nitrite means that there isn't enough bacteria to process the ammonia being produced.  These bacteria populations will continue to increase until ammonia and nitrite are no longer measurable.

[Tamberav]

3 hours ago, bones6966 said:

Hey all,

 

So due mainly to my ignorance and lack of reading prior to making decisions I have caused my self and more so my mollies a few issues. 

I was talking to a guy at the pet store that told me I acclimate my mollies to saltwater.  So over the course of a week or two i have slowly added the salt to the water I change out and am now at proper reef salt levels. 

 

I neglected to read up on any of this and I noticed my mollies rubbing on the side of the live rock I just put in the tank. I believe I messed the cycle of the tank up and am now starting over in my cycle. I bought a proper test kit to see where I'm at and how much I messed it up. The numbers are concerning to me and I am looking for some help on how to fix them and how to keep my fish comfortable/safe until the cycle is sorted out. I feel absolutely terrible for neglecting to think ahead and now my fish are the victims. 

 

Tank is 30 Gal and home to 5 mollies and a few guppies.

I have about 9 Lbs of live rock in the tank and 3 inch of crushed coral substrate in the bottom

 

The numbers are as follows. 

 

PH                  - 8

Ammonia       - 1 PPM

Nitrite            - 2 PPM

Nitrate           - 5 PPM

 

Ammonia has gone up from 0.5 last night, Nitrite up from 0.5 Nitrate up from high 5 last night. 

Should I change a large part of the water? Will that hurt the cycle? How do I move forward? 

 

Thanks for your help guys.

Use a product called biospira to add bacteria. This will speed the cycle up. This will work even in hyposalinity (if your not done acclimating yet). I usually just start with a cap full or two every day and monitor for bacterial blooms.  

 

Also add prime to help detoxify ammonia between water change. 

[bones6966]

2 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Use a product called biospira to add bacteria. This will speed the cycle up. This will work even in hyposalinity (if your not done acclimating yet). I usually just start with a cap full or two every day and monitor for bacterial blooms.  

 

Also add prime to help detoxify ammonia between water change. 

I just got Prime, added to help with the ammonia issues. Fish seem a bit more comfortable. Also got Turbo Start bacteria to speed up the cycle. 

I will continue to monitor. thanks for the help everyone.

[banasophia]

I’m just so confused… if you’re keeping mollies and guppies why are you changing it to saltwater? 

[bones6966]

On 7/10/2021 at 9:23 PM, banasophia said:

I’m just so confused… if you’re keeping mollies and guppies why are you changing it to saltwater? 

Because I like the fish, and have always wanted a saltwater ecosystem.

[bones6966]

So after 8 days things are looking better. But i can't seem to get the ammonia to 0PPM

I dosed prime the first 3 days until the ammonia went down and not since. 

Other than the turbo start I have not added anything to the tank. 

The ammonia is just detectable. not much at all but still there.

Should the super small amount in the tank not have been converted by now?

It is less than 0.25PPM, but wont go to 0. 

 

thanks!

 

History - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yuRpL72y6ODJJP_IpIMSjoKXyreGRdIlZHWFjjD7ys8/edit?usp=sharing

[seabass]

A couple of things.  Prime can cause issues with ammonia test kits.  That might be contributing to what you are seeing.  To get an accurate reading of free ammonia when dosing Prime, I recommend using a Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge.

 

The other thing; if you are using an API ammonia test kit (like I do), it is particularly sensitive to low ammonia levels.  It can detect ammonia that's low enough to not cause problems.  I bet that you could probably discontinue Prime (if you haven't already).

[bones6966]

14 hours ago, seabass said:

A couple of things.  Prime can cause issues with ammonia test kits.  That might be contributing to what you are seeing.  To get an accurate reading of free ammonia when dosing Prime, I recommend using a Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge.

 

The other thing; if you are using an API ammonia test kit (like I do), it is particularly sensitive to low ammonia levels.  It can detect ammonia that's low enough to not cause problems.  I bet that you could probably discontinue Prime (if you haven't already).

Ya I only dosed prime the first 3 days. when the ammonia came down a bit I stopped. I will try and find the ammonia alert badge. 
Tomorrow I might add the clean up crew.

[seabass]

27 minutes ago, bones6966 said:

Ya I only dosed prime the first 3 days. when the ammonia came down a bit I stopped. I will try and find the ammonia alert badge. 
Tomorrow I might add the clean up crew.

If that's the case, I probably wouldn't bother buying an ammonia alert badge.  However, if possible, I wouldn't add any more livestock until you are more sure that your tank is ammonia-free.