Acclimating zoas

[MissA]

Another noob question.

I would like to get some zoas for my smaller tank but I´m a little hesitant. I live in a small apartment and i´ve got asthma and I´ve got other small pets and I was wondering how "dangerous" it is when you acclimate them. I´m thinking that dipping them and taking them out of the bag and all that probably piss them of enough to relaese their toxins. My tanks are in the kitchen which is a seperate room from my bedroom/livingroom where my "landbased pets" live and I could close a door between the rooms and open windows in basically my entire apartment. Do I need to worry about my other pets? Is it easy the vent out the toxins? How worried should I really be, am I overly cautious?

[Murphs_Reef]

There is a risk but it's small. Keep them in the water and don't poke or prod them too much and it will be fine. 

Where gloves of you have them and Wash your hands well after touching them..

[MissA]

7 minutes ago, Murphych said:

There is a risk but it's small. Keep them in the water and don't poke or prod them too much and it will be fine. 

Where gloves of you have them and Wash your hands well after touching them..

Thanks for the help. 😃 Maybe a stupid question but is it more "safe" if they are constantly under water? And some people I have seen have gloves, eyeprotection and a facemask when they frag them but maybe it isn´t as risky to just acclimate them?

[jservedio]

25 minutes ago, MissA said:

Thanks for the help. 😃 Maybe a stupid question but is it more "safe" if they are constantly under water? And some people I have seen have gloves, eyeprotection and a facemask when they frag them but maybe it isn´t as risky to just acclimate them?

Unless you are literally boiling them, sleeping with them on your pillow, licking the polyps, or handling them with an open bleeding hand wound your risk is pretty much zero. Also, there aren't nearly as many P. Toxica palys in the aquarium trade as people believe - those are the ones that are actually pretty dangerous and they are also really ugly (as in just big brown polyps). Other species of zoas/palys have some palytoxin, but in much, much lower levels. There have only been a few confirmed palytoxin cases with aquarists and the two in the US over the past 10 years or so were both through inhalation (one boiled the rock, the other left large pieces of known P. Toxica to dry up on the floor outside his bedroom overnight).

 

There is no need to be worried about transferring them, dipping them, or gluing them down as long as you are being reasonably careful. There are millions of zoa and paly colonies and frags in the aquarium trade and are probably the most common coral, yet nobody gets poisoned - don't worry about them.

[Murphs_Reef]

My tank has a lot of zoa's and palys and I've never had any issues. As @jservedio says you have to aggressively man handle them (Ie boil them etc) to bring anywhere near enough toxins out. 

[MissA]

2 minutes ago, jservedio said:

Unless you are literally boiling them, sleeping with them on your pillow, licking the polyps, or handling them with an open bleeding hand wound your risk is pretty much zero. Also, there aren't nearly as many P. Toxica palys in the aquarium trade as people believe - those are the ones that are actually pretty dangerous and they are also really ugly (as in just big brown polyps). Other species of zoas/palys have some palytoxin, but in much, much lower levels. There have only been a few confirmed palytoxin cases with aquarists and the two in the US over the past 10 years or so were both through inhalation (one boiled the rock, the other left large pieces of known P. Toxica to dry up on the floor outside his bedroom overnight).

 

There is no need to be worried about transferring them, dipping them, or gluing them down as long as you are being reasonably careful. There are millions of zoa and paly colonies and frags in the aquarium trade and are probably the most common coral, yet nobody gets poisoned - don't worry about them.

Ok, so just as I thought I´m overly cautious.  I have no plans on putting them on my pillow or cook them. Thanks for the help. 😃

[Murphs_Reef]

7 minutes ago, MissA said:

Ok, so just as I thought I´m overly cautious.  I have no plans on putting them on my pillow or cook them. Thanks for the help. 😃

better to have asked the question than not.. no stupid question here..

Unless of course you where asking how long you should boil a zoa frag.. which of course the answer would be, until you pass out 🤣

[MissA]

3 minutes ago, Murphych said:

better to have asked the question than not.. no stupid question here..

Unless of course you where asking how long you should boil a zoa frag.. which of course the answer would be, until you pass out 🤣

🤣🤣🤣

[MissA]

So thanks to you guys I went to one off my favorite online stores and they had 30% off of all corals this weekend so I picked up 3 zoa frags. An Ice phantom, a pink sakura and a radioactive. 😁 And of course some other stuff. 😛  

[gena]

It's so interesting to me how so many more aquarists are familiar with the palytoxin risks now.  Every once in a while you'd hear things.  But not as much as today.   I remember when I shut my tank down a few years ago, feeling a bit of relief knowing I no longer had to worry about that.  Now it should be said that in the 20 years I've been keeping reefs, nothing ever happened and I've had the really bad guys in my tanks!  Just be really careful with them.  No cuddling the zoas!!!

 

I've decided for now that I won't be adding any to my new tank.  A big part is to just have complete peace of mind from palytoxin.  

Hopefully I don't get electrocuted, or get some weird bacterial infection, or any other weird possible thing from the tank LOL.

[jservedio]

17 minutes ago, gena said:

Hopefully I don't get electrocuted, or get some weird bacterial infection, or any other weird possible thing from the tank LOL.

Honestly, I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of unconfirmed "palytoxin" poison cases via skin contact are something totally different and all of the pictures floating around look wildly different. Everyone is afraid of the boogeyman palytoxin, but forget their tank is entirely full of creatures that sting, bite, and fight via chemical warfare and are chock full of harmful bacteria and viruses. All the nasty vibrio strains absolutely love aquariums!

[Murphs_Reef]

3 minutes ago, jservedio said:

Honestly, I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of unconfirmed "palytoxin" poison cases via skin contact are something totally different and all of the pictures floating around look wildly different. Everyone is afraid of the boogeyman palytoxin, but forget their tank is entirely full of creatures that sting, bite, and fight via chemical warfare and are chock full of harmful bacteria and viruses. All the nasty vibrio strains absolutely love aquariums!

I remember fragging a small colony for the first time. I didn't know what palytoxin was one of the polyps spat right in my face. It wasn't until after when i did some research that I found out it was a thing... Since then I have been spat at many times... Amazing how far it spits... But it's easier to frag out of water than in....

[Obami]

Pick those from Vietnam than had little palytoxin. They usually have some yellow on them.

[Pslreefer]

3 hours ago, gena said:

It's so interesting to me how so many more aquarists are familiar with the palytoxin risks now.  Every once in a while you'd hear things.  But not as much as today.   I remember when I shut my tank down a few years ago, feeling a bit of relief knowing I no longer had to worry about that.  Now it should be said that in the 20 years I've been keeping reefs, nothing ever happened and I've had the really bad guys in my tanks!  Just be really careful with them.  No cuddling the zoas!!!

 

I've decided for now that I won't be adding any to my new tank.  A big part is to just have complete peace of mind from palytoxin.  

Hopefully I don't get electrocuted, or get some weird bacterial infection, or any other weird possible thing from the tank LOL.

it’s the pansy generation, scared of anything and everything.

[Murphs_Reef]

15 minutes ago, Pslreefer said:

it’s the pansy generation, scared of anything and everything.

It is a bit, but at the same time, you don't know what you dont know?  

[gena]

3 hours ago, Pslreefer said:

it’s the pansy generation, scared of anything and everything.

Well there is that whole second most deadly toxin in the world thing going for it LOL.

 

I'll admit the older I get, the more pansy-ish I have become.  Not ashamed to admit it.  I'm just a cautious person.  Although sometimes I throw caution to the wind and stick my hand in the tank without turning the power off first LOL.

 

 

[gena]

6 hours ago, jservedio said:

Honestly, I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of unconfirmed "palytoxin" poison cases via skin contact are something totally different and all of the pictures floating around look wildly different. Everyone is afraid of the boogeyman palytoxin, but forget their tank is entirely full of creatures that sting, bite, and fight via chemical warfare and are chock full of harmful bacteria and viruses. All the nasty vibrio strains absolutely love aquariums!

Yup!  Agree!!!!  This reminds me I need to pick up some arm length gloves again.

[blasterman]

Anybody want to post statistics on people that die from pakytoxin vs texting and driving? Pansy generation is right.

 

There are only a few wild paly species that are dangerous and they arent commonly traded. I do see them at pet stores from time to time but they arent sold on zoa sites. 

[Murphs_Reef]

2 hours ago, gena said:

Well there is that whole second most deadly toxin in the world thing going for it LOL.

 

I'll admit the older I get, the more pansy-ish I have become.  Not ashamed to admit it.  I'm just a cautious person.  Although sometimes I throw caution to the wind and stick my hand in the tank without turning the power off first LOL.

 

 

Your funny 😂

[Murphs_Reef]

16 minutes ago, blasterman said:

Anybody want to post statistics on people that die from pakytoxin vs texting and driving? Pansy generation is right.

 

There are only a few wild paly species that are dangerous and they arent commonly traded. I do see them at pet stores from time to time but they arent sold on zoa sites. 

You know what I think it's fine. I don't mind it and will frag away on my chopping board.. but some people are risk averse..? 

 It's all good.

[Pslreefer]

On 7/9/2021 at 7:34 PM, gena said:

Well there is that whole second most deadly toxin in the world thing going for it LOL.

 

I'll admit the older I get, the more pansy-ish I have become.  Not ashamed to admit it.  I'm just a cautious person.  Although sometimes I throw caution to the wind and stick my hand in the tank without turning the power off first LOL.

Cos ppl have been keeping zoas and plays for how long now? And additionally it’s the grandis play’s you have to worry about, not zoas. Unless your gonna boil said zoas in water and drink it…

[blasterman]

On 7/9/2021 at 10:24 PM, Murphych said:

You know what I think it's fine. I don't mind it and will frag away on my chopping board.. but some people are risk averse..? 

 It's all good.

There's risk averse, and then there's the guy who was on here some years back claiming that his wife miscarried because he cleaned his tank. Im not kidding.

 

There are reefers who would sign a petition banning fragging zoas due to palytoxo

in dangers. They themselves don't frag...and its been proven there are only a couple wild species that are dangerous...but they want it banned. Helicopter parents became a thing in the 80s and 90s.....now we are seeing the unfortunate results.

 

 

 

[Murphs_Reef]

12 minutes ago, blasterman said:

There's risk averse, and then there's the guy who was on here some years back claiming that his wife miscarried because he cleaned his tank. Im not kidding.

 

There are reefers who would sign a petition banning fragging zoas due to palytoxo

in dangers. They themselves don't frag...and its been proven there are only a couple wild species that are dangerous...but they want it banned. Helicopter parents became a thing in the 80s and 90s.....now we are seeing the unfortunate results.

 

 

 

Well I'm sure age plays a part as well..🤣 my mother used to kick me out in the morning during summer break and only see me back in the house at dinner in the late 80s early 90s.

I used to be happy climbing a tree with a hedge saw and swinging it around.. these days however I make sure I'm holding the handrail firmly when walking down a flight of stairs. 

Of course disinformation needs to be highlighted and where appropriate, corrected. But if some one doesn't want to take a risk (even it's it's only a very remote one) then that's absolutely fine as well. Each to their own? 

 

[rough eye]

On 7/9/2021 at 4:19 PM, Pslreefer said:

it’s the pansy generation, scared of anything and everything.

personally i don't believe someone who doesn't want to kill their dog or cat is a "pansy." but, i guess tough guys of past generations were less worried about that.

 

come to think of it, i'm from a past generation myself.

[Tired]

I feel like "hey, these corals are poisonous, wear gloves and be very sure not to cut yourself while fragging them" is pretty reasonable. Not to mention "try not to get poison squirted in your eye". Sure, there are a few people who wildly overestimate the risks, but there have always been a few people who wildly overestimate the risks of things. Also, when people have stressful, upsetting things happen (like their wife miscarrying), they tend to look for a cause. Sometimes stressed people looking for a cause will blame something that wasn't really responsible. Not a new thing either. 

 

A thing doesn't have to kill a significant number of people for it to be a thing you should be careful with. Centipedes don't kill many people, but if I see a centipede, I'm still not gonna pick it up in my bare hands. Centipede bites hurt and can be bad for you. 

 

Really wish people were more worried about vibrio and other bacterial nasties in their reef tanks. Forget bristleworms, worry about that. 

 

As for helicopter parenting, the main negative effect there isn't people who are scared of everything. It's people who have bad risk-assessment skills, which may actually cause them to be under-cautious. Kids left with no opportunity for any sort of risk don't develop good risk/reward assessment, which extends into adult life and is bad for not just avoiding physical risk, but psychological and financial risk as well. 

That said, sharp, rusty things on playgrounds are generally bad, and children (especially young children) should have some amount of supervision. The trick is finding a middle ground, that allows for some risk, with as little as possible risk of serious injury or death. If you have to pick one extreme, coddling children is probably better than letting them get into situations with a significantly above-average risk of death. But, as with many things, a reasonable middle ground is generally going to be better than either extreme. And safety measures, like gloves for coral fragging, helmets for bike riding, and seatbelts for cars, are pretty much always good.