Billy's Deep Sandbed Experiment

[billygoat]

The morning sunlight is quite beautiful today.

 

 

[Ratvan]

Your tanks always look amazing in natural light and this one is no different

[Murphs_Reef]

Your tank is messing with my head! My eyes cant understand why its seeing coral in a planted tank.. 🤣

[Nano sapiens]

Nice to see the deliberate addition of lots of varied organism diversity! 👍

 

Something that seems to be less prevalent today than in the 'good old days' of reef keeping...

[CD_Scapes]

6 hours ago, Nano sapiens said:

Nice to see the deliberate addition of lots of varied organism diversity! 👍

 

Something that seems to be less prevalent today than in the 'good old days' of reef keeping...

I wish more people would focus on diversity now a days. I see so many tanks that start with dry rock and dry sand to stop pests but then they add corals without dipping which ruins the “sterile” also lots more Dino cases from dry rock starts. I have used live Florida ocean rock for my past 2 tanks and I will never go back to dry crap. I keep finding new critters everyday! I found a juvenile turkey wing clam this morning even 

[PeterU]

48 minutes ago, CD_Scapes said:

I wish more people would focus on diversity now a days. I see so many tanks that start with dry rock and dry sand to stop pests but then they add corals without dipping which ruins the “sterile” also lots more Dino cases from dry rock starts. I have used live Florida ocean rock for my past 2 tanks and I will never go back to dry crap. I keep finding new critters everyday! I found a juvenile turkey wing clam this morning even 

Live rock is very hard to get in some locations but I believe the "pest" card is played too often scaring new comers away from it where it is available.

[CD_Scapes]

1 hour ago, PeterU said:

Live rock is very hard to get in some locations but I believe the "pest" card is played too often scaring new comers away from it where it is available.

Oh 100%, nothing is a pest. They are hitchhikers who lived on the rock before we put them in our tanks and decided they are a "problem"

[billygoat]

On 9/12/2021 at 1:00 AM, Nano sapiens said:

Nice to see the deliberate addition of lots of varied organism diversity! 👍

 

Something that seems to be less prevalent today than in the 'good old days' of reef keeping...

I very much agree. Collecting a wide variety of interesting little organisms has always been a priority for me, but until this tank I've never had a chance to really embrace that philosophy to its maximum extent. The beauty of life on the reef is in its diversity; in few other environments on Earth can you find such a wide assortment of shapes and colors and lifestyles all packed into such a small space. The opportunity to observe all that variety right in one's own home is one of the most appealing parts of this hobby by far. 

 

I got some new critters from KP Aquatics yesterday.

 

A cucumber. I've always wanted one of these.

 

 

Some flame scallops. I think these will do very well in here, but they're difficult to observe because they like to wedge themselves into dark crevices. That's okay with me though.

 

 

Blue vase sponge. This one is difficult. Its chances of survival are low, but it definitely has better odds of survival in here than in the average reef tank. We'll see what happens. A commensal brittle star is living inside of its center cavity.

 

 

Life flourishes in all its many forms. This tank is a pleasure to keep.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Interesting animals, for sure!

 

From previous experience with a cucumber nuked tank, I'd suggest making any propeller driven interior pump 'cucumber proof' (wrap any opening in open cell foam, for example).

[filefishfinatic]

18 hours ago, billygoat said:

I very much agree. Collecting a wide variety of interesting little organisms has always been a priority for me, but until this tank I've never had a chance to really embrace that philosophy to its maximum extent. The beauty of life on the reef is in its diversity; in few other environments on Earth can you find such a wide assortment of shapes and colors and lifestyles all packed into such a small space. The opportunity to observe all that variety right in one's own home is one of the most appealing parts of this hobby by far. 

 

I got some new critters from KP Aquatics yesterday.

 

A cucumber. I've always wanted one of these.

 

 

Some flame scallops. I think these will do very well in here, but they're difficult to observe because they like to wedge themselves into dark crevices. That's okay with me though.

 

 

Blue vase sponge. This one is difficult. Its chances of survival are low, but it definitely has better odds of survival in here than in the average reef tank. We'll see what happens. A commensal brittle star is living inside of its center cavity.

 

 

Life flourishes in all its many forms. This tank is a pleasure to keep.

 

what kind of equipment would you use for a tank like this? id really like to make a tank system very similar to this for 9 to 5  contest. what substrate, filtration, heater, substrate arrangement. what would you do to make it more ideal? i will probably use mud in my tank 

[Ratvan]

18 hours ago, billygoat said:

I very much agree. Collecting a wide variety of interesting little organisms has always been a priority for me, but until this tank I've never had a chance to really embrace that philosophy to its maximum extent. The beauty of life on the reef is in its diversity; in few other environments on Earth can you find such a wide assortment of shapes and colors and lifestyles all packed into such a small space. The opportunity to observe all that variety right in one's own home is one of the most appealing parts of this hobby by far. 

 

I got some new critters from KP Aquatics yesterday.

 

A cucumber. I've always wanted one of these.

 

 

Some flame scallops. I think these will do very well in here, but they're difficult to observe because they like to wedge themselves into dark crevices. That's okay with me though.

 

 

Blue vase sponge. This one is difficult. Its chances of survival are low, but it definitely has better odds of survival in here than in the average reef tank. We'll see what happens. A commensal brittle star is living inside of its center cavity.

 

 

Life flourishes in all its many forms. This tank is a pleasure to keep.

 

That Blue Vase Sponge is definitely interesting, i don't think i have ever seen one of those before 

[billygoat]

55 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

That Blue Vase Sponge is definitely interesting, i don't think i have ever seen one of those before 

Very interesting to be sure. But there's probably a reason you don't see them too often: after two days in the tank mine is already dead!

 

I looked at it when I woke up this morning and was immediately like "oh that's not a good look at all." 😅

 

 

Sure enough, when I pulled it out and smelled it I found that it was very obviously dead. An inspection of the inside revealed a banquet of copepods feasting on its tissue.

 

 

A beautiful animal, remarkably tough but supple in its texture, but definitely a bad choice for aquariums. I think this sponge was probably DOA and just took a few days to start actively rotting. Some of my other corals are looking pretty unhappy this morning, and I think this thing is likely the reason. I believe that certain types of sponges (like ball sponges and various photosynthetic varieties) can thrive in home aquaria, but more delicate specimens like this vase sponge should probably be avoided. The stress of collection, distribution, and transport is simply too much for them.

 

1 hour ago, Nano sapiens said:

From previous experience with a cucumber nuked tank, I'd suggest making any propeller driven interior pump 'cucumber proof' (wrap any opening in open cell foam, for example).

The cucumber nuke! I had not considered that, but it certainly makes a lot of sense: just like a sea anemone, a cucumber is a slow-moving, brainless bag of water - perfect prey for a powerhead. Thank you for putting this on my radar.

 

1 hour ago, filefishfinatic said:

what kind of equipment would you use for a tank like this? id really like to make a tank system very similar to this for 9 to 5  contest. what substrate, filtration, heater, substrate arrangement. what would you do to make it more ideal? i will probably use mud in my tank 

I don't like equipment, so I would use a wavemaker, a heater, and a light. If you have a big south-facing window handy you can maybe even skip the light. If I were doing this tank over knowing what I know now, I would skip the seagrass as well. I know I set out with the specific goal of growing seagrass in this tank, but so far I have not been impressed with it. It grows fairly consistently, but controlling epiphytes on its blades has proven to be a struggle, and honestly I don't even really like the way that it looks. Going for macroalgae or mangroves instead of the seagrass would also allow you to have less substrate. The thick sandbed in this tank provides a very powerful biological filter, which is normally a great thing to have in your saltwater tank. But when you're growing plants and macros the biofilter actually competes with those higher organisms for certain nutrients.

 

Anyway, the tank looks pretty good despite my unfortunate experience with the tube sponge. I like to tell myself that bad choices like that are all part of the experiment.

 

[Tired]

Too bad about the sponge. Did you get the brittle star out, or was it already dead? May be worth trying to keep it, if it's alive, even if it is commensal. Maybe it'll be okay. 

[filefishfinatic]

7 minutes ago, Tired said:

Too bad about the sponge. Did you get the brittle star out, or was it already dead? May be worth trying to keep it, if it's alive, even if it is commensal. Maybe it'll be okay. 

starfish cannot see. i assume that they cannot tell the difference between a rock and a sponge and they will consume the detritus that the sponge wouldve eaten anyway 

[filefishfinatic]

you should get one of these. they live in seagrass beds and are super super adapted to burrowing. https://www.kpaquatics.com/product/rosy-razorfish/

[Nano sapiens]

22 minutes ago, billygoat said:

Very interesting to be sure. But there's probably a reason you don't see them too often: after two days in the tank mine is already dead!

 

I looked at it when I woke up this morning and was immediately like "oh that's not a good look at all." 😅

 

 

Sure enough, when I pulled it out and smelled it I found that it was very obviously dead. An inspection of the inside revealed a banquet of copepods feasting on its tissue.

 

 

A beautiful animal, remarkably tough but supple in its texture, but definitely a bad choice for aquariums. I think this sponge was probably DOA and just took a few days to start actively rotting. Some of my other corals are looking pretty unhappy this morning, and I think this thing is likely the reason. I believe that certain types of sponges (like ball sponges and various photosynthetic varieties) can thrive in home aquaria, but more delicate specimens like this vase sponge should probably be avoided. The stress of collection, distribution, and transport is simply too much for them.

 

The cucumber nuke! I had not considered that, but it certainly makes a lot of sense: just like a sea anemone, a cucumber is a slow-moving, brainless bag of water - perfect prey for a powerhead. Thank you for putting this on my radar.

 

I don't like equipment, so I would use a wavemaker, a heater, and a light. If you have a big south-facing window handy you can maybe even skip the light. If I were doing this tank over knowing what I know now, I would skip the seagrass as well. I know I set out with the specific goal of growing seagrass in this tank, but so far I have not been impressed with it. It grows fairly consistently, but controlling epiphytes on its blades has proven to be a struggle, and honestly I don't even really like the way that it looks. Going for macroalgae or mangroves instead of the seagrass would also allow you to have less substrate. The thick sandbed in this tank provides a very powerful biological filter, which is normally a great thing to have in your saltwater tank. But when you're growing plants and macros the biofilter actually competes with those higher organisms for certain nutrients.

 

Anyway, the tank looks pretty good despite my unfortunate experience with the tube sponge. I like to tell myself that bad choices like that are all part of the experiment.

 

Sponges often die when exposed to air, unfortunately.  This may be the root cause...

 

[billygoat]

29 minutes ago, Nano sapiens said:

Sponges often die when exposed to air, unfortunately.  This may be the root cause...

Indeed. I was extremely careful when handling this sponge, and can say with confidence that it never touched air on my end (gluing it down was a chore and a half). However I have no way of knowing how it was treated before it got to me, so who knows what it went through on the retailer's side. I did notice that the sponge's shipping bag was about a 70/30 water/air mixture and that it was wrapped in a paper towel, which seemed like an interesting decision to me. I would have preferred to have it shipped in 100% water, as it surely was exposed to air at least briefly while being jostled during transit.

 

I ran a quick test this morning and sure enough discovered that ammonia levels are measurable. This is almost certainly due to that sponge rotting in the tank for two days.

 

 

Thankfully this system's capacity to process ammonia is extremely formidable. I am confident that it will right itself in short order.

51 minutes ago, Tired said:

Too bad about the sponge. Did you get the brittle star out, or was it already dead? May be worth trying to keep it, if it's alive, even if it is commensal. Maybe it'll be okay. 

Unfortunately the brittle star was already dead. I cut the sponge open to try and rescue it and found its disintegrated body inside. ☹️

[gena]

The anthelia looks even LARGER .  

 

I would say for sure it was on it's way out when you received it.  Because if anyone could keep one, it would be you in this sort of tank.  It's a very good lesson for others not to pick one up!  

[billygoat]

23 hours ago, gena said:

The anthelia looks even LARGER .  

Doesn't look to be stopping anytime soon! I wonder what I am going to do with it when it covers every surface in my aquarium... 😅

 

[Firefish15]

12 hours ago, billygoat said:

Doesn't look to be stopping anytime soon! I wonder what I am going to do with it when it covers every surface in my aquarium... 😅

Isolate it! Give it it’s own rock! 😄

[gena]

22 hours ago, billygoat said:

Doesn't look to be stopping anytime soon! I wonder what I am going to do with it when it covers every surface in my aquarium... 😅

 

I don't know what you're going to do, but I'm going to be saying "damn that looks so good"  

[billygoat]

On 9/18/2021 at 9:55 PM, Firefish15 said:

Isolate it! Give it it’s own rock! 😄

It is isolated! I just don't think it cares about that. It will grow over the sand, up the walls, out of the tank; I will find it in my shower. It's only a matter of time and there is nothing I can do about it. 🤷‍♂️

 

On 9/19/2021 at 7:47 AM, gena said:

I don't know what you're going to do, but I'm going to be saying "damn that looks so good"  

It is very pretty. I wish I could post videos here on N-R so you could see it in motion. It is in a part of the tank that gets very strong water flow, and it is pleasant to watch it blowing and swaying in the current.

 

The sunlight on the water is very difficult for my poor old iPhone camera to capture, but I will keep trying.

 

 

[M. Tournesol]

16 minutes ago, billygoat said:

I wish I could post videos here on N-R so you could see it in motion.

GIF 100% work on nano-reef 😊: https://ezgif.com/video-to-gif

[filefishfinatic]

get a sea hare to eat the epiphytes, watch creatures of the lagoon. its all about seagrass beds. the people at the smithsonian keep seahares with the seagrass.  https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/details/show/creatures-of-the-lagoon

[Tired]

Sea hares need a very large amount of food. I don't think a tank this size is going to have enough seagrass epiphytes to keep one fed. Definitely not much seagrass surface area at the moment. Plus, it'd eat the macroalgae. Could be useful in a big tank, though. 

 

Tank looks gorgeous, as usual. I really have to try something of this style (though maybe without seagrass) in the future.