How much flow to use carbon for Flatworm Exit?

[TatorTaco]

I have a 20 gallon tank and the Flatworm Exit instructions state that I need 1 pound of carbon per 50 gallons of tank volume.  I'm not sure how much water volume I need to push/cycle through the carbon?  

 

Could I get away with using a HOB filter? Is a Phosban Reactor more appropriate?  

 

My math shows:

1 pound = 16 ounces of carbon. 

16 ounces of carbon per 50 gallons.

So, I'd need .32 ounces of carbon (16 / 50) per gallon of water.  That's 6.4 ounce of carbon for my application (.32 x 20 gallons)

 

However, I don't know how quickly the water needs to flow through the carbon.  

 

I didn't follow the directions perfectly last time I did this (several months ago) and almost nuked my entire tank. If I do this incorrectly and nuke my tank I'm sure I'll leave the hobby. 

[seabass]

A HOB filter should be adequate.  The main thing is to try remove "all" of the flatworms before you dose (I guarantee that you won't get them all).  They will release toxins as they die, so fewer worms means less toxins.

 

Then as soon as you dose Flatworm eXit, the remaining worms should start to get very active.  Quickly remove the worms as they become visible (don't wait for them to die).  Follow the directions as closely as possible.

[TatorTaco]

16 minutes ago, seabass said:

A HOB filter should be adequate.  The main thing is to try remove "all" of the flatworms before you dose (I guarantee that you won't get them all).  They will release toxins as they die, so fewer worms means less toxins.

 

Then as soon as you dose Flatworm eXit, the remaining worms should start to get very active.  Quickly remove the worms as they become visible (don't wait for them to die).  Follow the directions as closely as possible.

I'm glad to have you weigh in on this!  Do you think the AC20 would provide sufficient flow rate for the carbon, or should I look for something a bit stronger/bigger? 

[seabass]

Instructions:

Quote

Flatworm eXit itself is quite safe to fish and invertebrates. However, the body juice of flatworms can be toxic to some reef inhabitants when present in a too high concentration. This body juice is sometimes excreted when flatworms die.

So when you use this product it is important to do the following first:

• Siphon out as many flatworms as possible.
• Keep sufficient fresh activated carbon in a canister ready.
• Turn off UV, ozone and remove activated carbon. Keep the skimmer turned on.

Important remarks

Below given remarks are a.o. meant to reduce the amount of the flatworm`s toxic body juices in the water.

Many people have treated their reef tank(s) successfully using Flatworm eXit without any problems. The most important factors are reducing the number of flatworms before commencing with the treatment and reducing the amount of the flatworm`s body juice, released when they die, as fast as possible.

Do not underestimate the number of flatworms in your system. In a few cases a significant number of flatworms can be hiding in, for example, crevices. Blow in such and any other potential hiding places, water, to blow any flatworm out of there. For that purpose you can use a powerhead or a turkey baster. Siphon out those flatworms as well.

Furthermore, do not underestimate the amount of toxic body-juices these flatworms can excrete. This can be reduced significantly by really siphoning out the flatworms before commencing with the treatment. Further significant reduction is accomplished by siphoning out as many dead flatworms as you can.

Any body juice released by the dead flatworms in the water has to be reduced further by using about 1 pound of fresh high quality carbon for every 50 gallons. The carbon has to be used in a canister with a sufficient forced water flow.

Take sufficient time for treating the tank. That is, do not treat your tank in a hurry. Also, take time to monitor your tank for at least 6 hours after the treatment.

It is also wise to have at least 25% water ready for a water change if required.

Dosage:

Read all the above text before commencing with the treatment!

• 1 drop for every 4 liters or 1 gallon
  The dropper contains approx. 300 drops (10ml). The dropper cap holds approx. 90 drops. So 1 cap full is good for 360 liters or 90 gallons.
  
  Add it in a high flow area of the tank. If you want to treat a refugium only and if it`s volume is too small for using a powerhead then mixing should be done manually.
• It should start to work within 30 minutes.
• If within 45 minutes no visible death of flatworms occurs add 50% more.
• As soon as the flatworms start to die, commence with the activated carbon to take out any toxic body juices. Also see the above given important remarks.
• After an hour or so you can turn any UV or ozone on again.

Keep out of the reach of children! Only for aquarium hobby use.

 

It seems that they are now recommending a carbon canister (which I don't believe was the case when I used it last, probably over a decade ago).  I'm sure that a canister would remove toxins faster than a traditional filter.  You might use a little more carbon to help offset this.

 

3 hours ago, TatorTaco said:

Do you think the AC20 would provide sufficient flow rate for the carbon, or should I look for something a bit stronger/bigger? 

If you are buying something, I might go larger.  If you already have an AC20, I might just use that.

[TatorTaco]

For future reference:  Bulk Reef Supply advised me that 300 gph is the suggested flow rate to push through carbon to remove chemicals produced from using flatworm exit (and the flatworms dieing).  

 

So now I just need to find a cost efficient method to push 300 gph through carbon on a Nuvo 20. 

[TatorTaco]

Turns out I left my wallet at home.  I'm planning to purchase this tonight: 

 

 

 

 

I'm worried getting another HOB filter won't push the water THROUGH the media so that leaves me with a media reactor or a canister filter.  The canister filters cost more than a media reactor, so that's why I opted for the media reactor.  

 

Decent plan? 

[Matteo]

300gph seems a little heavy for carbon considering many hob filters don't run that high of a flow. 

 

Can you pick up a used reactor to run carbon from someone maybe? (Edit just saw your post about the reactor purchase)

 

I'm running a mini brs reactor with carbon in attached to a small rio pump. Definitely not 300gph or close to it.

[Matteo]

You have a smaller tank so maybe just one of these?

https://www.marinedepot.com/minimax-pro-desktop-media-reactor-150ml-auqa-gadget-innovative-marine?gclid=CjwKCAjw1uiEBhBzEiwAO9B_HVXYgtaKd9WdyU8QfsYrR0CT6An1kuozL_XHrkysunFKUMGZkPYwCRoC69kQAvD_BwE

[PeterU]

Wouldn't carbon filters made for the AC20 be adequate?

[Matteo]

24 minutes ago, PeterU said:

Wouldn't carbon filters made for the AC20 be adequate?

Honestly thats what I thought

[jedimasterben]

As someone that is the king of overcomplicating things, I think you're overcomplicating :)  Not to say that the toxins produced as the flatworms decay would not be devastating if left in the aquarium, but I would say that with a decent brand of carbon and a cheap HOB filter you will be fine, half a pound of carbon is a lot. Worst case scenario, your tank probably has around 15 gallons in actual water volume, and doing a near total water change is not a huge task as an emergency fix, and then running extra carbon in your normal filtration to take care of residual as more continues to break down in the short term.

[Matteo]

3 minutes ago, jedimasterben said:

As someone that is the king of overcomplicating things, I think you're overcomplicating 🙂 Not to say that the toxins produced as the flatworms decay would not be devastating if left in the aquarium, but I would say that with a decent brand of carbon and a cheap HOB filter you will be fine, half a pound of carbon is a lot. Worst case scenario, your tank probably has around 15 gallons in actual water volume, and doing a near total water change is not a huge task as an emergency fix, and then running extra carbon in your normal filtration to take care of residual as more continues to break down in the short term.

What the master said^^^

[TatorTaco]

2 hours ago, jedimasterben said:

As someone that is the king of overcomplicating things, I think you're overcomplicating 🙂 Not to say that the toxins produced as the flatworms decay would not be devastating if left in the aquarium, but I would say that with a decent brand of carbon and a cheap HOB filter you will be fine, half a pound of carbon is a lot. 

See, this is exactly what I'm getting hung up on!  1 pound of carbon is soooooo much.  Technically, I'd need a little less than 1/2 a pound if I followed the instructions exactly.  I'd need even less Carbon if I used the fancy BRS "Rox" stuff.  

 

My AC20 is only rated at 120 gph.  Could I still get sufficient flow THROUGH the media?  I wouldn't mind picking up a bonus HOB filter from walmart - it'd still be cheaper than $80 for a reactor. 

[jedimasterben]

5 minutes ago, TatorTaco said:

See, this is exactly what I'm getting hung up on!  1 pound of carbon is soooooo much.  Technically, I'd need a little less than 1/2 a pound if I followed the instructions exactly.  I'd need even less Carbon if I used the fancy BRS "Rox" stuff.  

 

My AC20 is only rated at 120 gph.  Could I still get sufficient flow THROUGH the media?  I wouldn't mind picking up a bonus HOB filter from walmart - it'd still be cheaper than $80 for a reactor. 

120GPH is going to completely turn your tanks water over about 9ish times per hour, obviously with media loaded in it will be less, but with just a bag of carbon I would not think considerably so. I would venture a guess that the recommendations are assuming significant water volume that would get a lot less total turnover. I think I would just carry on with what you have and that you will be fine. And again, if things are looking dicey, a total water change wouldn't be crazy hard.

[TatorTaco]

I can do a large water change easily enough I suppose, but should I be concerned about he dead flatworms that I'm not able to suck up out of the tank? 

[jedimasterben]

17 hours ago, TatorTaco said:

I can do a large water change easily enough I suppose, but should I be concerned about he dead flatworms that I'm not able to suck up out of the tank? 

It will take at least some time for them to start breaking down - it's not like after that first 45 minutes after dosing that they'll be done breaking down, I would imagine that process would take a few days. I would just run a larger than your typical bag of carbon in the AC20 and then after a few hours change that and you can assess and see if you need to escalate.