Tonozukais fairy wrasse disease

[Zachary Hart]

Hi, I recently bought a tonozukais fairy wrasse from my lfs and have had him in quarantine for about a week now. Eating three times a day still with a ferocious appetite. However I noticed today that it has some white powder looking substance on its tail. Occasionally it twitches or darts forward (seemingly without control because it has hit the glass before). Below I'll attach some images if anyone can identify this.  There are also some white spots on the tail which look a bit like ich, but I was also thinking they may just be micro bubbles from the air stone because the wrasse isn't itching himself on anything.  Thanks

[Zachary Hart]

Update: I have just seen him scratch face on one of the rocks

[Tamberav]

A lot of times when we hear 'powder like substance' we think of velvet but it would likely be breathing heavy if it has velvet. 

 

The random erratic behavior also makes me think flukes. It could be multiple issues.

 

Do you have a QT tank? Are there other fish in the tank with it?

 

 

[Zachary Hart]

Its in quarantine at the moment since I bought it a week ago. over the past 4 days I have slowly dosed copper (cupramine) to 0.5ppm as recommended on the bottle since I noticed some white spots a few days ago. I realise copper isnt that good for wrasses but I have no alternative medication to hand atm. 

 

Its on its own in my 10gal quarantine tank 

[Zachary Hart]

Another update: he appears to be breathing heavier and also hiding alot during the day, only coming out for food

[RoyalGramma001]

Not sure but it kind of looks like ich on the tail but could be velvet also.

[Humblefish]

I would abort copper treatment, and do "Hybrid" Tank Transfer Method instead: 

 

If you decide to stick with Cupramine, I would also dose API General Cure or Prazipro in order to deworm the fish.

[Tamberav]

22 hours ago, Zachary Hart said:

Its in quarantine at the moment since I bought it a week ago. over the past 4 days I have slowly dosed copper (cupramine) to 0.5ppm as recommended on the bottle since I noticed some white spots a few days ago. I realise copper isnt that good for wrasses but I have no alternative medication to hand atm. 

 

Its on its own in my 10gal quarantine tank 

Do yo have a hannah high range copper checker? I see rock in there and it will mess with your dosage so having a good copper checker is a must imo if you plan to continue treating with copper. 

 

 

[Zachary Hart]

39 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

Do yo have a hannah high range copper checker? I see rock in there and it will mess with your dosage so having a good copper checker is a must imo if you plan to continue treating with copper. 

 

 

Unfortunately I don't have £60 to spend on such an expensive piece of kit. However I do have a salifert test kit which is currently saying 0.5 exactly. So as long as I dont add anymore cupramine to the system that should be alright correct?  Also the rock I put in there just to seed the quarantine with bacteria as it came from my main display tank

[Zachary Hart]

 

I've just got home from a day out and currently the fish is now swimming around and is active and eating the flake food that I offer. Also the tail shows no sign of what it looked like in the pictures I posted yesterday. If this is indeed ich or velvet, does that mean that the parasite has detached from the fish and is now getting ready to multiply? And if that is the case, would the copper that is currently in the system eradicate the newly hatched parasites

[Zachary Hart]

1 hour ago, Humblefish said:

I would abort copper treatment, and do "Hybrid" Tank Transfer Method instead: 

 

If you decide to stick with Cupramine, I would also dose API General Cure or Prazipro in order to deworm the fish.

I would dose these medicines like you suggest, however I can't find them anywhere. I live in the UK. Are there any other alternatives to the medicines you suggest that do the same thing?

[Tamberav]

32 minutes ago, Zachary Hart said:

 

I've just got home from a day out and currently the fish is now swimming around and is active and eating the flake food that I offer. Also the tail shows no sign of what it looked like in the pictures I posted yesterday. If this is indeed ich or velvet, does that mean that the parasite has detached from the fish and is now getting ready to multiply? And if that is the case, would the copper that is currently in the system eradicate the newly hatched parasites

It should kill free swimmers. The problem is salifert.. is just a color chart of different shades and its impossible to know if it is really 0.5 and if something will sneak though.

[Zachary Hart]

19 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

It should kill free swimmers. The problem is salifert.. is just a color chart of different shades and its impossible to know if it is really 0.5 and if something will sneak though.

Ah I see but doesn't cupramines therapeutic level vary from 0.3-0.6? I just can't justify spending £73 on a copper checker that I will use maybe 5 times a year at max. 

[Tamberav]

17 minutes ago, Zachary Hart said:

Ah I see but doesn't cupramines therapeutic level vary from 0.3-0.6? I just can't justify spending £73 on a copper checker that I will use maybe 5 times a year at max. 

0.4 - 0.5 I believe. 

[Zachary Hart]

Oh ok. Well I'll test twice daily with saliferts kit and let you know how it goes

[Humblefish]

10 hours ago, Zachary Hart said:

I would dose these medicines like you suggest, however I can't find them anywhere. I live in the UK. Are there any other alternatives to the medicines you suggest that do the same thing?

Sera Tremazol or Fluke Solve are two commonly available dewormers in the UK which both contain praziquantel. 

[Tamberav]

11 hours ago, Zachary Hart said:

Oh ok. Well I'll test twice daily with saliferts kit and let you know how it goes

Sounds good.. I know this hobby has so many expenses! Eating and active is a very good sign. 🤞

[Zachary Hart]

Ok I've just bought fluke solve because I noticed his head shaking again today. Can I dose "fluke solve" alongside cupramine? Or do I have to use carbon to get rid of the copper from the system and then dose the fluke solve?  Thanks

[Humblefish]

On 5/3/2021 at 4:57 AM, Zachary Hart said:

Ok I've just bought fluke solve because I noticed his head shaking again today. Can I dose "fluke solve" alongside cupramine? Or do I have to use carbon to get rid of the copper from the system and then dose the fluke solve?  Thanks

Yes, but you have to be careful about a bacterial bloom (cloudy water) occurring when combining medications. To alleviate this threat, I suggest pointing a powerhead towards the surface of the water or running a couple of air stones (on high) to infuse more oxygen into the water.

[Zachary Hart]

Alright I think I'll wait until the copper treatment has finished then because there is already a slight bacterial bloom happening at the moment. 

Another question is how on earth are you supposed to dose fluke solve? It says you need 4 grams per 1000 litres of tank water. I need to dose this In a 40litre tank so that would be about 0.16g wouldn't it? Or is my math wrong. 

[Humblefish]

On 5/4/2021 at 9:46 AM, Zachary Hart said:

Another question is how on earth are you supposed to dose fluke solve? It says you need 4 grams per 1000 litres of tank water. I need to dose this In a 40litre tank so that would be about 0.16g wouldn't it? Or is my math wrong. 

You'll need 160mg for 40 litres of water. So, you'll need to use a small digital scale to weigh it. Also, praziquantel is not easily water soluble so you'll probably have to mix it with Dimethyl sulfoxide or plain vodka. Watch these videos: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/use-dmso-to-dissolve-medications.4809/

 

[Zachary Hart]

Update: everything with the fish seems to be fine. Colours looking great, eating ferociously, not showing any signs of disease. I'll leave him in quarantine for another week or so and move him to Main display. 

Thanks for your help 🙂