Kinda's Large Tank Adventure (LTA)

[Melfy77]

Dinos suck! Period. Few years ago they showed up in my evo 13.5g, after using that chem clear thingy for cyano.  My tank had low nutrients so everything was in place to get dinos. I seriously cannot remember how I beat them, but I remember stopping waterchanges, doing a blackout and dosing peroxide. I dont think I tried UV but not sure. I got really lucky though because it took about a week or 2 and they were gone. Dinos are my biggest fear. My current tank is barebottom for easy cleaning (I hate, really hate dirty sand lol) and I seeded the tank with pods, and I'm letting some algae grow on the bottom glass as well as generous feedings. There's always a risk of getting them I'm just trying to do everything I can to promote other types of algae. Don't give up!

[Kindanewtothis]

Post in thread 'How effective/safe is dino x?' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-effective-safe-is-dino-x.723351/post-7518008

 

If you allow it I will post something from another forum too. It's the many comments like this that makes me want to use it

[rough eye]

kinda, i think it's admirable that you're planning do nothing until after you get back from your vacation. leaving the tank alone to grow is a good plan, in my opinion. 

 

in answer to your question, if you use a pesticide to get rid of the dinos and the conditions are still right for them, they can come right back. maybe worse.

[Kindanewtothis]

14 minutes ago, rough eye said:

In answer to your question, if you use a pesticide to get rid of the dinos and the conditions are still right for them, they can come right back. maybe worse.

I know they can come back, my question is how to not make the conditions good for dinos. Keeping high nitrate/phosphate? Dosing phyto ?

[Clown79]

18 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I know they can come back, my question is how to not make the conditions good for dinos. Keeping high nitrate/phosphate? Dosing phyto ?

Having nutrients, algae, and biodiversity.

 

Tanks with low nutrients, lack of biodiversity, and no algae is dino's preference.

[rough eye]

16 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I know they can come back, my question is how to not make the conditions good for dinos. Keeping high nitrate/phosphate? Dosing phyto ?

diversity. that means waiting, and being careful not to kill off all the life that will compete with the dinos. as i said before, every tank has dinos in it. something about nature hating a vacuum, and if there's a void in the biological diversity of your tank, the fastest growing stuff (dinos) will fill that void. so waiting will allow all the other life to develop healthy populations that will keep the dinos at bay.

[Kindanewtothis]

Here's something interesting, I've been syphoning the sides and the front of the tank but not the back behind the rocks. The backs was full, I mean really full of dinos. I just realized that the sand in the back is white or at least way more clean than the sand I've been disturbing with the syphon.

[rough eye]

2 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Here's something interesting, I've been syphoning the sides and the front of the tank but not the back behind the rocks. The backs was full, I mean really full of dinos. I just realized that the sand in the back is white or at least way more clean than the sand I've been disturbing with the syphon.

so you're saying the part you left alone and allowed the pods to do their job is cleared up already? just think what would happen if you left the whole tank alone 🙂

[Kindanewtothis]

8 minutes ago, rough eye said:

so you're saying the part you left alone and allowed the pods to do their job is cleared up already? just think what would happen if you left the whole tank alone 🙂

It is what I'm saying 🙂

 

The back is clearly better.

[Tired]

About the live rock; what did it look like when you got it? What was living on it? It's possible that much of its biodiversity has died off, depending on how it was treated. A tank without enough nutrients, for example, would starve a lot of the good stuff off. 

[rough eye]

yes, before you added any livestock were there feather dusters? little brittle stars? asterina stars? have you seen bristle worms? were the rocks crawling with amphipods? pink and purple and green algae and sponges and so on? seeing all that stuff before you ever introduce a fish can give you confidence things will go well.

[Kindanewtothis]

8 hours ago, Tired said:

About the live rock; what did it look like when you got it? What was living on it? It's possible that much of its biodiversity has died off, depending on how it was treated. A tank without enough nutrients, for example, would starve a lot of the good stuff off. 

The first pic is the rocks for the 10g and some of the 50g are from (supposedly 8 years in a tank)

 

The second one where my rocks for the 50g are from.

 

There was no light on either of the rocks.

7 hours ago, rough eye said:

were there feather dusters? little brittle stars? asterina stars? have you seen bristle worms? were the rocks crawling with amphipods? pink and purple and green algae and sponges and so on?

Only pink, purple and green algae but not much.

 

 

 

[rough eye]

those photos don't really mean anything. i'm talking about once you have the tank set up, while it's cycling, when you're looking at the rock in the tank and waiting for it to be cycled. that's when the magic happens.

[Kindanewtothis]

6 minutes ago, rough eye said:

those photos don't really mean anything. i'm talking about once you have the tank set up, while it's cycling, when you're looking at the rock in the tank and waiting for it to be cycled. that's when the magic happens.

Just some coraline algae but not much, none of the other things you mentionned.

[seabass]

The rocks in the 50 gallon were obviously full of nitrifying bacteria.  The rocks in the cooler show some age, although they apparently lacked biodiversity.

 

So when you reason it out, lack of biodiversity might have provided an environment which allowed dinos to bloom.  If your solution is to wipe out the flora with an algaecide/biocide, then you might be back to square one.

 

17 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

For the sake of discussion, If I was to use dino-x, after putting back carbon (they say to remove it for the treatment) and changing water, and asuming the pods are all dead (I've also been told they would survive), what would be my next move to create the conditions for the dinos not to come back? Reintroducing pods and keep on dosing phyto?

I get where you're going with this.  As the dino bloom progresses, you just want it to go away and you're willing to start at square one (who wouldn't).  If that's how it really worked, I might be with you.  It seems fairly easy just to seed new life.  However, Dino-X hasn't been proven to be this effective against dinos.  And it's possible that you will compromise your efforts to date while not getting rid of dinos, setting your tank back further.

 

We're just offering you advise, you should consider this advice, then make your own decisions (that's pretty much how reefing works).  Just remember that companies sometimes prey of desperate reefers looking for quick fixes.

 

At this point, I might be inclined to remove your substrate while it's full of dinos.  While it probably won't get rid of all the dinos, it might take away their refuge.  Obviously, this will remove some pods and such.  It might be necessary to reseed your tank afterwards.

 

I'll say it again, despite people claiming they have the cure for dinos, I'm not aware of a fool-proof method which will get rid of all strains of dinos in all reef tanks.  I don't dispute that people have successfully gotten rid of dinos, as they have.  And I believe there is something to learn from all of these instances.

 

What people here have been trying to assist you with, is to offer suggestions based on either what they have read, or their own personal experiences.  There will obviously be some contradictions, and even more as you scour the internet.  It's frustrating to say the least.

[Kindanewtothis]

24 minutes ago, seabass said:

The rocks in the 50 gallon were obviously full of nitrifying bacteria.  The rocks in the cooler show some age, although they apparently lacked biodiversity.

 

So when you reason it out, lack of biodiversity might have provided an environment which allowed dinos to bloom.  If your solution is to wipe out the flora with an algaecide/biocide, then you might be back to square one.

 

I get where you're going with this.  As the dino bloom progresses, you just want it to go away and you're willing to start at square one (who wouldn't).  If that's how it really worked, I might be with you.  It seems fairly easy just to seed new life.  However, Dino-X hasn't been proven to be this effective against dinos.  And it's possible that you will compromise your efforts to date while not getting rid of dinos, setting your tank back further.

 

We're just offering you advise, you should consider this advice, then make your own decisions (that's pretty much how reefing works).  Just remember that companies sometimes prey of desperate reefers looking for quick fixes.

 

At this point, I might be inclined to remove your substrate while it's full of dinos.  While it probably won't get rid of all the dinos, it might take away their refuge.  Obviously, this will remove some pods and such.  It might be necessary to reseed your tank afterwards.

 

I'll say it again, despite people claiming they have the cure for dinos, I'm not aware of a fool-proof method which will get rid of all strains of dinos in all reef tanks.  I don't dispute that people have successfully gotten rid of dinos, as they have.  And I believe there is something to learn from all of these instances.

 

What people here have been trying to assist you with, is to offer suggestions based on either what they have read, or their own personal experiences.  There will obviously be some contradictions, and even more as you scour the internet.  It's frustrating to say the least.

Thanks again.

 

I won't take the decision right now like I said, I'm giving the tank weeks to show improvement. Like I said last night, it seems like the back of the tank is clearing, I'll confirm later today when the lights will have been full on for a while.

 

I thought about removing the sand, it would be way easier  to clean but I really don't think I would like the looks of it (still better than dinos it's true). I would for sure put sand back eventually.

 

I red good and bad stories about Dino-x, I'm afraid of it but if it comes to loosing the tank, I will try it.

[seabass]

1 minute ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I would for sure put sand back eventually.

Yep, that would be my plan too.  The only concern I might have, is dino cysts surviving.  Not sure if that's a thing, but I imagine it is.  Also not sure what the best method might be to prevent this.

 

One thought is, as others have stated, dinos might always be present in small numbers and there is no need to fully eradicate them.  Still, I'd probably soak the sand in hydrogen peroxide as a precaution.

[Kindanewtothis]

15 minutes ago, seabass said:

Still, I'd probably soak the sand in hydrogen peroxide as a precaution.

I'd go with brand new sand to be sure.

[seabass]

17 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I'd go with brand new sand to be sure.

Haha, yeah, sometimes I can be kind of a cheapskate.  Still, it's probably possible to save that sand.

[Kindanewtothis]

Turns out the back of the tank is now full with dinos again. I don't know what it was yesterday, maybe only snails that turned the sand idk... false joy...

[Kindanewtothis]

Phyto question: I just locally bought a bottle of phyto. The one I already have was really dark green and the smell was terrible, the new one's colour is lighter and so is the smell. 

 

Is the new one ok?

[seabass]

49 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Is the new one ok?

I would imagine it's fine.  I believe Phyto Feast is concentrated.

 

The phyto I culture myself doesn't smell.  IDK, I suppose the smell might be from decomposing cells.   It's been a while since I've purchased live phytoplankton.

[Kindanewtothis]

2 minutes ago, seabass said:

I would imagine it fine.  I believe Phyto Feast is concentrated.

 

The phyto I culture myself doesn't smell.  IDK, I suppose the smell might be from decomposing cells.   It's been a while since I've purchased live phytoplankton.

Ok thanks, I'll dose more of the new one.

[Kindanewtothis]

@seabass cannot find the linked you sent.

 

Was it this one?

"AmScope M150C 40X-1000X 360-Degree Rotating Monocular Head Compound Microscope | eBay" https://www.ebay.ca/itm/144051070831?hash=item218a1ce76f:g:pr0AAOSwdu1gb5km

 

 

 

[seabass]

That particular scope looks like it's missing the AC adapter (which shouldn't be that much of an issue because it looks like it accepts batteries), and is missing its 25x eyepiece (which you'd want to replace):

Quote

 

Specifications :

Head: 45 degree inclined monocular

Eyepieces: WF10X, WF25X (NOT included)

Objectives: 4X, 10X, 40X

Condenser: single lens with disc diaphragm

Stage Dimensions: 3-1/2" x 3-1/2"

Illumination: LED

Power Supply: 110V/60Hz (adapter NOT included) or 3 AA batteries (NOT included).

 

I'm not sure if it's because I'm searching from the U.S., but most of these are shipping from the states.

 

Here's the same scope New (open box) and apparently Complete: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/402023470096?epid=1259742840&hash=item5d9a775410:g:0I8AAOSw-2xe4p6S

Not sure about shipping to Canada

 

This is the link from Amscope direct: https://www.amscope.com/40x-1000x-student-compound-microscope-home-school-science.html

Quote

Please note that all customs and brokerage fees levied on products imported into the country of destination are the responsibility of the recipient. Such fees/duties are NOT included in our pricing.

 

This one ships from Canada:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/373577782948?hash=item56faf896a4:g:GqgAAOSwQ0VgnF2s