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Kindanewtothis

Kinda's "Magnificent" 50 and what not to do...

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seabass

Are there visible signs of dinos in the 10 gallon?

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Kindanewtothis
1 hour ago, seabass said:

Are there visible signs of dinos in the 10 gallon?

I saw something (algae type thing with air trapped) on the rock that was in the 50 but it was at least a week ago / 10 days but it's all gone. 

20210701_151523.jpg

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Clown79
1 hour ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I saw something (algae type thing with air trapped) on the rock that was in the 50 but it was at least a week ago / 10 days but it's all gone. 

Don't put anything in the 10g from the other tank.

 

Thats how i spread dino from my 1 tank to the others

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Kindanewtothis
8 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Don't put anything in the 10g from the other tank.

 

Thats how i spread dino from my 1 tank to the others

I used the same sponge to clean the glass from both tanks but I don't anymore.

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rough eye

reasons people say go slow, i guess.

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Kindanewtothis
24 minutes ago, rough eye said:

reasons people say go slow, i guess.

What? The dinos? 

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seabass

A brontosaurus or triceratops might be relatively slow, but I imagine that a raptor is pretty fast. :unsure:

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Clown79
6 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I used the same sponge to clean the glass from both tanks but I don't anymore.

Ya, nothing should be shared between tanks.

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Kindanewtothis

Cleaned the sand bed with a turkey baster (wasn't easy cause the sand with dinos would fall out of the baster) and the vaccum. I filtered all the water I took out with a filter sock and floss then I've put it back in the tank. 

 

Changed the the filter pad in the powerhead.

 

Cleaned all the sponges/pads in the canister filter and added an additionnal filter pad at the end (where you can place the phosphate remover pad in a fluval 207 if you know the model).

 

Still no news from my pods that were supposed to be shipped "express" according to the website...

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seabass

Certainly, don't change out water just for the sake of changing water.

51 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I filtered all the water I took out with a filter sock and floss then I've put it back in the tank.

I get your not wanting to change out any water.  However, seeing that dinos flow through a paper towel, I wonder just how many dinos get removed by filtering them through floss and/or a filter sock.  I would think you might need something like a diatom filter.  But again, I'm no expert on the subject.

 

I suppose you could check for dinos by placing the filtered water under lights (like in the shake test) before returning it to your tank.

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Clown79
34 minutes ago, seabass said:

Certainly, don't change out water just for the sake of changing water.

I get your not wanting to change out any water.  However, seeing that dinos flow through a paper towel, I wonder just how many dinos get removed by filtering them through floss and/or a filter sock.  I would think you might need something like a diatom filter.  But again, I'm no expert on the subject.

 

I suppose you could check for dinos by placing the filtered water under lights (like in the shake test) before returning it to your tank.

Its a method i read about that worked for many and honestly reduced them in my tanks.

 

 

The tank i didn't physically remove the dino's with this method, ended up so bad i gave up. 

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seabass
19 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Its a method i read about that worked for many and honestly reduced them in my tanks.  The tank i didn't physically remove the dino's with this method, ended up so bad i gave up. 

I'm still interested in how many dinos we would actually be returning to the tank.  Maybe it's the process of breaking them up that's providing a benefit. :unsure:

 

I have yet to see a clear reason why new saltwater causes dinos to increase.  Some speculate that it is a trace element that they need, while others suggest that it's the reduction in nutrients or organics that hampers the dinos' competition.

 

So I wonder, which is worse, returning filtered water which include dinos, or replacing that water with new saltwater.  Maybe (as I suggested above) there is a better way to filter out the dinos before returning the water to our tanks.

 

This is primarily hypothetical, as I'm kind of just thinking out lout here.

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rough eye

didn't the OP say he used wet live rock to set up this tank? i thought dinos was a thing that only happens to dry rock tanks.

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Kindanewtothis
7 minutes ago, rough eye said:

didn't the OP say he used wet live rock to set up this tank? i thought dinos was a thing that only happens to dry rock tanks.

Yeah I used wet live rock, the first ones were out of the water for like 45 minutes if I remember correctly.

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rough eye

in this case GHA is your friend and would have saved you from the dino outbreak. i don't know, maybe it's because i cycled with lights on, because i got the algae going (coralline too in great amounts) that kept dinos from ever popping up. not sure i ever saw that 50 gallon tank of yours with white light on it so hard to tell what kind of rock it is.

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seabass
25 minutes ago, rough eye said:

didn't the OP say he used wet live rock to set up this tank? i thought dinos was a thing that only happens to dry rock tanks.

I believe that (due to the abundant biodiversity of live rock) it's more common in tanks that were setup with dry rock.  However, it's possible to have dinos in any tank that isn't able to out compete dinos (due to lost biodiversity caused by limited nutrients, or by dosing some sort of biocide like Vibrant).  Maybe the rock (while containing a mature biofilter) wasn't as bio-diverse as we would expect.

 

4 minutes ago, rough eye said:

in this case GHA is your friend and would have saved you from the dino outbreak.

Probably true.  Growth of green algae oftn marks a turning point in dino tanks.

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Kindanewtothis

It did not take long for the dinos to pop back out

55 minutes ago, rough eye said:

not sure i ever saw that 50 gallon tank of yours with white light on it so hard to tell what kind of rock it is.

 

20210702_131351.jpg

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Clown79
1 hour ago, rough eye said:

didn't the OP say he used wet live rock to set up this tank? i thought dinos was a thing that only happens to dry rock tanks.

No.

 

Dino's are part of the eco system, they are always there but become a problem when there is N imbalance, lack of biodiversity, lack of competitors.

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Clown79
2 hours ago, seabass said:

I'm still interested in how many dinos we would actually be returning to the tank.  Maybe it's the process of breaking them up that's providing a benefit. :unsure:

 

I have yet to see a clear reason why new saltwater causes dinos to increase.  Some speculate that it is a trace element that they need, while others suggest that it's the reduction in nutrients or organics that hampers the dinos' competition.

 

So I wonder, which is worse, returning filtered water which include dinos, or replacing that water with new saltwater.  Maybe (as I suggested above) there is a better way to filter out the dinos before returning the water to our tanks.

 

This is primarily hypothetical, as I'm kind of just thinking out lout here.

Apparently it is the trace elements, lack of nutrients, and no life in new water that they thrive on.

 

Dino's apparently love new water and i can say that when mine started it got worse after doing waterchanges(i didn't know it was dino's and went the wrong route at first)

 

Once i determined it was dino's i went a different way and found various methods helped to reduce the effects of the dino but ultimately i didn't see a decline until i added lots of pods, made the pod condo, and got my phos way up with phyto. 

When i seeded the tank, i noticed a huge difference. 

 

When my pico tank got dino, i immediately did the same as i did in the lagoon and within weeks they were gone.

 

i didn't do the same thing in my frag tank and the frag tank was destroyed by dino's. I never got them under control. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

It did not take long for the dinos to pop back out

 

20210702_131351.jpg

They will. It won't get rid of them, it reduces them and the removal also gets them off corals, rocks, etc.

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rough eye

kinda, that photo is blue to my eyes.

 

clown79, i never had to do this battle so many here know more than me, but i would think the primary cause would be lack of biodiversity. i looked back through this thread, toward the beginning of May, when kinda said there was "brown algae" covering everything. so, i guess that was the start. seems weird that dosing nitrates would happen concurrently with a dino explosion if low nitrates was the cause. 

 

i'm curious what filtration and dosing is taking place. is there a skimmer? any pads like gfo or other phosphate removal thing?

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Kindanewtothis
21 minutes ago, rough eye said:

i'm curious what filtration and dosing is taking place. is there a skimmer? any pads like gfo or other phosphate removal thing?

Filtration: fluval 207 (for 20 to 45g)

Skimmer: tonze 9001 (for up to 37g)

 

Also have an aquaclear 50 powerhead with a filter attachement.

 

Not much...

 

Edit: no dosing of anything

 

20210702_135417.jpg

20210702_135410.jpg

20210702_135402.jpg

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Kindanewtothis
18 minutes ago, rough eye said:

kinda, that photo is blue to my eyes.

Only whites on 133%. The rest is 0. Now it looks green.

20210702_135714.jpg

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seabass
1 hour ago, Clown79 said:

Apparently it is the trace elements, lack of nutrients, and no life in new water that they thrive on.  Dino's apparently love new water and i can say that when mine started it got worse after doing waterchanges

Yeah, like I said, those are the prevailing theories, but they contain no specificity (like it's the iron in the new saltwater which causes the bloom to accelerate).  And yes, anecdotally, people have observed increases in dinos after doing water changes.  However, a 5% reduction of nutrients or bacteria is likely not the problem which accelerates dino blooms.

 

So I still wonder if adding back dinos (after siphoning them out) does more good than adding back new saltwater.  Obviously, you wouldn't want to change out more water than you have to.  And again, (just thinking out loud here) better filtration of the removed water (before returning it) might be the best option.

 

1 hour ago, rough eye said:

i would think the primary cause would be lack of biodiversity

I tend to agree.  I feel that boosting the nutrient levels (and phyto) are primarily supporting the tank's biodiversity.

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Clown79
48 minutes ago, seabass said:

Yeah, like I said, those are the prevailing theories, but they contain no specificity (like it's the iron in the new saltwater which causes the bloom to accelerate).  And yes, anecdotally, people have observed increases in dinos after doing water changes.  However, a 5% reduction of nutrients or bacteria is likely not the problem which accelerates dino blooms.

 

So I still wonder if adding back dinos (after siphoning them out) does more good than adding back new saltwater.  Obviously, you wouldn't want to change out more water than you have to.  And again, (just thinking out loud here) better filtration of the removed water (before returning it) might be the best option.

 

I tend to agree.  I feel that boosting the nutrient levels (and phyto) are primarily supporting the tank's biodiversity.

I never changed water in my 25g during waterchanges and the floss packed in a filter sock, caught alot of dino's.

 

With using a turkey baster every night, not even a gallon of water was removed.

 

Its diligent and time consuming work but it worked.

 

I saw the difference, there was a reduction. My corals weren't getting smothered.

 

I can say from my experience, it was definitely beneficial and the problem gone in 2 months with everything i did. 

 

Also tried a different method with waterchanges in my frag tank and that caused an explosion of dino's. Stopped waterchanges, did everything i normally would do besides removing the dino daily, it only worked a bit but as soon as i did a tiny waterchange(not even a gallon, dino explosion. 

 

I spent over a month researching and personally chose to go with the method that worked for many and disregarded the other methods which i tried once - it did not work.

 

 if i was going through it again, i would not go the route of waterchanges or not physically removing dino's. 

 

 

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Kindanewtothis
On 6/12/2021 at 9:13 PM, Kindanewtothis said:

Ca 500

KH 9.2

Mg 1400

Ca 480

KH 9.2

MG 1480

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