Kinda's Large Tank Adventure (LTA)

[seabass]

On 4/21/2022 at 7:53 AM, Kindanewtothis said:

The 3 test I did yesterday all gave results between 1440-1480. How can it be this high if I never dosed magnesium ?

I wouldn't worry about it too much.  You mentioned that you are using Instant Ocean "orange bucket".  That is actually Reef Crystals (which is also fine to use).

However, as they state, "Reef Crystals^® contains essential ocean reef elements in concentrations greater than those found in natural sea water."  Here are a series of tests on different brands of salt:

 

Brand	Date Taken	Temp	Salinity	Calcium	Alkalinity	Magnesium
Aquaforest Reef	5/12/2016	77F	35ppt	475	8.6	1590
	8/13/2016	77F	35ppt	450	8.16	1560
	8/19/2016	Triton	34.64ppt	448	NA	1553
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	33.59ppt	437	NA	1514
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	440	8.3	1530
AVG				450.00	8.35	1549.40
Aquaforest Sea Salt	10/12/2016	Triton	33.54ppt	465	NA	1532
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	32.84ppt	437		1482
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	440	8.9	1515
AVG				447.33	8.90	1509.67
Aquaforest ProBiotic	5/14/2016	Triton	32.63ppt	387	NA	1278
	8/19/2016	Triton	33.97ppt	413	NA	1512
	8/19/2016	77F	34.9ppt	420	7.04	1485
	10/12/2016	Triton	33.53ppt	412	NA	1516
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	33.52ppt	390	NA	1446
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	420	7.3	1500
AVG				407.00	7.17	1456.17
Aquatic Gardens	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	430	8	1240
AVG				430.00	8.00	1240.00
Brightwell Neomarine	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	370	11	1140
AVG				370.00	11.00	1140.00
Coralife	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	560	9	1380
	6/13/2014	NA	1.026sg	450	9.5	1340
	9/8/2016	Triton	34.25ppt	535	NA	1449
	9/8/2016	77F	35ppt	515	8.96	1395
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	34.06ppt	540	8.7	1354
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	520	8.96	1380
AVG				520.00	9.02	1383.00
Crystal Sea Marinemix	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	340	9	1050
AVG				340.00	9.00	1050.00
D-D H2Ocean	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	450	10	1380
AVG				450.00	10.00	1380.00
E.S.V.	1/30/2016	77F	1.026sg	450	9	1400
AVG				450.00	9.00	1400.00
Fritz Pro Reef	3/14/2016	78.9	1.026sg	440	8.5	1500
	5/5/2016	25C	35ppt	430	8.95	1410
AVG				435.00	8.73	1455.00
Instant Ocean	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	400	11	1350
	1/25/2016	77.2F	35ppt	410	10.4	1320
	8/24/2016	Triton	34.07ppt	409.4	NA	1351
	3/2/2016	77F	35ppt	405	10.9	1275
	3/3/2016	77F	35ppt	410	11.2	1275
	3/3/2016	Triton	35.67ppt	423	NA	1309
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	33.94ppt	412	10.4	1304
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	405	10.2	1320
AVG				409.30	10.68	1313.00
hw-Marine Mix Reefer	3/14/2016	78.6	1.026	440	8.6	1380
	5/8/2016	77F	1.026	430	8.6	1260
	5/9/2016	78F	1.026	420	8.9	1280
AVG				430.00	8.70	1306.67
Kent	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	540	11	1200
AVG				540.00	11.00	1200.00
Kordon Coral Sea	3/15/2016	82F	34.5ppt	360	10	1200
AVG				360.00	10.00	1200.00
Marine Environment	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	480	7.5	1450
AVG				480.00	7.50	1450.00
Oceanic	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	580	8.5	1650
AVG				580.00	8.50	1650.00
OceanPure	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	510	10	1320
AVG				510.00	10.00	1320.00
Red Sea	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	400	8	1300
	5/15/2015	~20C	35ppt	434	8.8	1280
	11/7/2015	~20C	35ppt	446	8	1288
AVG				426.67	8.27	1289.33
Red Sea Coral Pro	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	470	12.5	1400
	5/9/2016	78F	1.026sg	480	12.32	1470
	8/19/2016	Triton	33.08ppt	441	NA	1436
	8/19/2016	77F	35ppt	460	12.16	1440
sleepdoc's	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	450	8.9	1350
sleepdoc's	10/12/2016	AquaForest	33.55ppt	440	9.3	1340
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	440	11.84	1410
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	34.6ppt	434	9.5	1363
AVG				451.88	10.93	1401.13
Reef Crystals	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	490	13	1440
	1/30/2016	78F	35ppt	440	15	1240
	2/25/2016		1.027sg	450	10.3	1350
	3/14/2016	77F	35ppt	550	11.8	1560
	3/15/2016	77F	35ppt	530	12.2	1530
	3/22/2016	Triton	34.99ppt	574.6	NA	1510
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	35.25ppt	517	10.7	1378
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	510	11.68	1485
AVG				507.70	12.10	1436.63
Reefer's Best	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	420	11	1200
AVG				420.00	11.00	1200.00
SeaChem aquavitro salinity	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	422	9.8	1336
	5/29/2015		1.026sg	430	9.2	1225
	1/31/2016		35ppt	435	8.3	1310
	5/10/2016	77F	35ppt	425	8.6	1335
	5/20/2016	Triton	37.18ppt	466	NA	1234
	9/20/2016	Triton	33.05ppt	395	NA	1350
	9/20/2016	AquaForest	35.06ppt	410	NA	1336
	9/20/2016	77F	35ppt	420	8.96	1335
AVG				425.38	8.97	1307.63
SeaChem Marine Salt	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	500	10	1400
AVG				500.00	10.00	1400.00
SeaChem Reef Salt	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	540	10	1450
	5/9/2016	78F	1.026sg	527	10.47	1200
	10/12/2016	Triton	35.39ppt	528	NA	1520
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	33.91ppt	504	NA	1409
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	520	8.3	1515
AVG				523.80	9.59	1418.80
Triton's Pure Salt	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	705	0.96	1620
	10/12/2016	Triton	35.06ppt	728	NA	1663
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	34.45ppt	691	1.7	1549
AVG				708.00	1.33	1610.67
Tropic Marin Pro Reef	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	450	8.5	1380
	3/22/2016	77F	35ppt	445	7	1350
	4/9/2016	77F	35ppt	465	7.3	1425
	4/9/2016	Triton	34.74ppt	475.3	NA	1442
	5/9/2016	78F	1.026sg	470	6.6	1350
	5/16/2016	Triton	35.41ppt	460.6	NA	1381
AVG				460.98	7.35	1388.00
Tunze Reef Salt	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	420	9.5	1350
AVG				420.00	9.50	1350.00

Source: https://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=fc22901a897923198907b2742d30d38d&p=24924613#post24924613

 

Instant Ocean and Reef Crystals tend to have a reputation for batch inconsistencies.  One batch could be 1250ppm of magnesium, and another could be 1500.  Test a freshly mixed batch of saltwater; it could easily be around 1450ppm.

[DevilDuck]

7 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

When I though Mg was 1280, my test did not reach the right colour. So titrant used was only 0.64 but it should have been more. I also think I went too fast (and not drop by drop).

 

The 3 test I did yesterday all gave results between 1440-1480. How can it be this high if I never dosed magnesium ?

Magnesium will come from your salt. If you do frequent partial water changes it can build up. I've had mine over 1600 when I had the fluval evo and still did weekly water changes.

[seabass]

1 hour ago, DevilDuck said:

If you do frequent partial water changes it can build up.

It won't actually "build up"; but if your salt mixes to 1600ppm of magnesium, then water changes will help push it back towards 1600ppm.

[Kindanewtothis]

@seabass sorry I know I ask a lot.

 

With almost no lps left, what is using up the alkanility? Just coraline algae? Will consumption go down? I'm suprised I have to dose 7ml a day right now (so 0.5 dKH).

[seabass]

Yeah, it might be a little surprising, but it's not unheard of.  Soft coral tanks have been known to consume up to 2 dKH per day.  Coralline is a major consumer; less so are snails (and other creatures), as well as calcium carbonate spicules in soft corals.  Then there can be precipitation on heaters and pumps (or even precipitation which causes clumping in your sand bed).

[Kindanewtothis]

1 hour ago, seabass said:

precipitation on heaters and pumps

So that's dry up salt (or what I think it is) on my pumps (outside de water) and refugium? 

 

I though only LPS and SPS corals were consuming alkalinity but you are telling me zoas and mushrooms do too?

[seabass]

The dried salt outside of the aquarium is salt creep.  Precipitation is more like the mineral deposits that sometimes attach to heat sources underwater.

 

Soft corals have spine-like calcareous spicules (or sclerites) that provide support and protection.  This creates sort of a microskeleton which helps them retain their shape.  While soft corals don't consume as much alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium as stony corals, they contribute to the overall consumption of these elements.

[LazyFish]

In the cabage corals this is very obvious in any damaged section or sometimes where it ataches to the rock you can see the sliver shaped spicules poking out. You can even see them imbeded within the flesh under good light. Just incase anyone wants to look at them it's a good example to see.

[Kindanewtothis]

It's been a year (yesterday) since I first subscribed to nano-reef. That also means that my tank is over a year old now.

 

Great community

 

Thanks all.

[Kindanewtothis]

Do bailed polyps can survive and attach somewhere else? I think I have a green hammer growing next to another one.

[seabass]

I've had a bailed Blasto polyp survive and grow into another colony.  Apparently some LPS are more successful than others at this.  TBH, I'm not sure about the likelihood of a Hammer polyp attaching and surviving.

 

Let it be in a low flow area that gets decent light.  But obviously, whatever caused the bailout, needs to be resolved.  Have you seen any reaction to maintaining alkalinity at 10 dKH yet?

[Kindanewtothis]

2 hours ago, seabass said:

I've had a bailed Blasto polyp survive and grow into another colony.  Apparently some LPS are more successful than others at this.  TBH, I'm not sure about the likelihood of a Hammer polyp attaching and surviving.

 

Let it be in a low flow area that gets decent light.  But obviously, whatever caused the bailout, needs to be resolved.  Have you seen any reaction to maintaining alkalinity at 10 dKH yet?

If it's a polyp bailout, it would be "alive" since 2-3 weeks. 

 

dKH is around 9.5 each morning, so I dose 7ml daily. (dKH is back to 9.5 the next morning)

[Kindanewtothis]

Help! Aiptasia sighted.

 

Just one for now. What do I do?

[DevilDuck]

4 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Help! Aiptasia sighted.

 

Just one for now. What do I do?

Was going to happen sooner or later. If there's one there are probably 10 more you don't see. Couple of things worked for me.

 

Cut all flow for 10 mins then:

 

1. Inject lemon juice directing into the mouth of the aiptasia

2. Mix kalkwasser powder into a thick slurry, inject it to the mouth and cover the entire aiptasia in it. This is basically what aiptasia-X is.

 

Some people have suggested boiling hot water, but this never worked for me. The water cools off too quickly.

[Ratvan]

I've also had luck supergluing over them, but only on things that are removable from the tank

[Kindanewtothis]

I'll see if I can get the rock out to superglue it but it's a big rock.

 

If not, I'll get aiptasia x, I don't have kalkwesser powder anyway.

[M. Tournesol]

18 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I'll see if I can get the rock out to superglue it but it's a big rock.

 

If not, I'll get aiptasia x, I don't have kalkwesser powder anyway.

You could also inject citric acid. It worked for me.

But be cautious not to add too much to your tank because if you do, your ph will drop.

[Kindanewtothis]

Would Aiptasia X affect my parameters also?

 

I like the fact that it comes with an applicator syringe, and 2 applicator tips (1 straight, 1 angled). It's more expensive than citric acid but it's available at the LFS at the corner of the street for 20.99$ CAD and it's good for 100 anemones. If I understand correctly, this one will not be the only one I have to kill.

[seabass]

5 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

If I understand correctly, this one will not be the only one I have to kill.

It depends on when you introduced it.  It's possible to see one just after you introduced it, and there could still be just one.  However, since you haven't posted about new additions lately, this was probably introduced weeks ago, giving it plenty of time to reproduce.

 

They reproduce relatively quickly, and can move around, and tend to irritate corals which they come in contact with.  That, and the fact that most people don't find them very attractive, make them an unwanted pest.  It's even possible that aiptasia have been irritating your LPS corals.

 

IMO, the biggest problem with Aiptasia-X is that often you can't find or access all of the anemones; so (depending on your rocks) you might not be able to get rid if them all.  I've successfully used Peppermint Shrimp in the past to track down and eat hard to reach aiptasia.

 

However, I also find that Peppermint Shrimp themselves can be a pest.  They steal food, and can pick at other anemones, corals, fan worms, etc.

[Kindanewtothis]

6 hours ago, seabass said:

 I've successfully used Peppermint Shrimp in the past to track down and eat hard to reach aiptasia.

Not sure my pistol shrimp would not kill it as I suspect this is what happened to my cleaner shrimp.

[seabass]

19 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Not sure my pistol shrimp would not kill it as I suspect this is what happened to my cleaner shrimp.

It's possible, especially if the peppermint shrimp are smaller than the pistol shrimp.

 

However, I don't like to keep peppermint shrimp long-term anyway.  Like I said, I consider them a pest and would give them away after they have done their job.  Also, they are one of the less expensive shrimp.

 

A couple of tips if you go with a peppermint shrimp.  Don't purposely feed them; hungry peppermints are better anemone hunters.  And you will likely have more luck keeping them in multiples.

[Kindanewtothis]

6 minutes ago, seabass said:

It's possible, especially if the peppermint shrimp are smaller than the pistol shrimp.

 

However, I don't like to keep peppermint shrimp long-term anyway.  Like I said, I consider them a pest and would give them away after they have done their job.  Also, they are one of the less expensive shrimp.

 

A couple of tips if you go with a peppermint shrimp.  Don't purposely feed them; hungry peppermints are better anemone hunters.  And you will likely have more luck keeping them in multiples.

No risk for my LTA?

[seabass]

They definitely couldn't kill your LTA.  My peppermint shrimp would steal food from the mouths of my RFAs.  It irritated them, but didn't really harm them.  But they also started to pick at fan worms and even corals (not sure how your struggling LPS would hold up to that).

 

Sounds like you already got Aiptasia-X, so give it a shot.  But keep in mind that if you have many aiptasia, that you might not be able to rid your tank of them without additional help.

[Kindanewtothis]

24 minutes ago, seabass said:

Sounds like you already got Aiptasia-X,

No not yet, but I think I'll try that first and then re-evaluate if I see more.

[Kindanewtothis]

It's done (Aiptasia-X).

 

I think I did it well.