Kinda's Large Tank Adventure (LTA)

[seabass]

Yeah, starving out photosynthetic life is usually not a successful long-term goal (especially with a tank that has recently had a dino bloom).  I'd probably consider 5 ppm of nitrate a minimum target when trying to raise nutrient levels.  Likewise, I'd probably consider 0.05 ppm a minimum for phosphate when trying to raise levels.  However, your inhabitants might prefer twice those levels.

 

I get the feeling that your tank's recent increase in phosphate is mostly coming from organics built up in your substrate.  They may have reached a saturation point, or it might be due to the activities of your pistol shrimp.  However, it could also be from previously bound phosphorus which is now leaching from the calcium carbonate (your rocks and sand) in your tank.

 

I've gone down a similar path before (trying to reduce inorganic nutrients to some ideal, in hopes of achieving a pristine reef tank).  The thing is though, I feel that I have had more luck with higher nutrient levels.  To be honest, I'm not really sure what the top end might be.  I guess I might consider 20 ppm of nitrate and 0.20 ppm of phosphate reasonable targets when trying to reduce nutrient levels.

 

I suspect that successful reef tanks, which happen to have low nutrient levels, still have a reasonable amount of input (whether from a solid food chain, directly from feeding, or from some other source of organic or inorganic nutrients).  And it's this input which is sustaining the photosynthetic life (despite the measurably low levels of inorganic nutrients in the water).  In the ocean, there is an abundance of food which is nearly impossible to duplicate in our systems.  But it's the inorganic nutrients that appear to help fill that gap in the food chain which is found in our systems.

 

Carbon dosing tends to reduce inorganic nutrients to the point where one of the levels eventually become a limiting factor.  Usually it's nitrate which bottoms out first.  Then people sometimes try to add a phosphate reducer, or they start dosing nitrate to reduce the limiting factor.  Personally, I consider carbon dosing to be a relatively difficult balancing act to successfully pull off in the long-term.

[Kindanewtothis]

4 hours ago, seabass said:

Yeah, starving out photosynthetic life is usually not a successful long-term goal (especially with a tank that has recently had a dino bloom).  I'd probably consider 5 ppm of nitrate a minimum target when trying to raise nutrient levels.  Likewise, I'd probably consider 0.05 ppm a minimum for phosphate when trying to raise levels.  However, your inhabitants might prefer twice those levels.

 

I get the feeling that your tank's recent increase in phosphate is mostly coming from organics built up in your substrate.  They may have reached a saturation point, or it might be due to the activities of your pistol shrimp.  However, it could also be from previously bound phosphorus which is now leaching from the calcium carbonate (your rocks and sand) in your tank.

 

I've gone down a similar path before (trying to reduce inorganic nutrients to some ideal, in hopes of achieving a pristine reef tank).  The thing is though, I feel that I have had more luck with higher nutrient levels.  To be honest, I'm not really sure what the top end might be.  I guess I might consider 20 ppm of nitrate and 0.20 ppm of phosphate reasonable targets when trying to reduce nutrient levels.

 

I suspect that successful reef tanks, which happen to have low nutrient levels, still have a reasonable amount of input (whether from a solid food chain, directly from feeding, or from some other source of organic or inorganic nutrients).  And it's this input which is sustaining the photosynthetic life (despite the measurably low levels of inorganic nutrients in the water).  In the ocean, there is an abundance of food which is nearly impossible to duplicate in our systems.  But it's the inorganic nutrients that appear to help fill that gap in the food chain which is found in our systems.

 

Carbon dosing tends to reduce inorganic nutrients to the point where one of the levels eventually become a limiting factor.  Usually it's nitrate which bottoms out first.  Then people sometimes try to add a phosphate reducer, or they start dosing nitrate to reduce the limiting factor.  Personally, I consider carbon dosing to be a relatively difficult balancing act to successfully pull off in the long-term.

So what you are suggesting is that I stop dosing carbon? Or that I use it only for a temporary period? 

[seabass]

I feel that I've been trying to steer you away from it.  However, Red Sea claims that you can use NO3:PO4-X to control levels (like how you are attempting to use it), so maybe it's fine.  You'll have to decide.

 

It seems like you are throwing the kitchen sink at it (phosphate reducing pads, water changes, a macroalgae refugium, and carbon dosing).  It might be a bit much; especially since your numbers look fine.

On 3/19/2022 at 7:38 AM, Kindanewtothis said:

No3 is now 23.7 ???

Po4 is down to 0.12

Neither of these numbers are very concerning to me.

 

 

[Kindanewtothis]

1 hour ago, seabass said:

I feel that I've been trying to steer you away from it.  However, Red Sea claims that you can use NO3:PO4-X to control levels (like how you are attempting to use it), so maybe it's fine.  You'll have to decide.

 

It seems like you are throwing the kitchen sink at it (phosphate reducing pads, water changes, a macroalgae refugium, and carbon dosing).  It seems a bit much.  Especially since your numbers look fine.

Neither of these numbers look concerning to me.

 

 

You did try to steer me away from it but others said to try it for some time. Po4 is now 0.12 but it was over 0.30 and the phosphate remover pads did nothing this time so I have stop using them.

 

Manual removal of GHA is hard because the algae are really attached to the rocks so I'm trying to reduce phosphate to help (like in the video you linked me but in the video they were reducing phosphate to 0 over night)

 

I'm getting mixed advices from different sources and I don't know who to listen to, but something is affecting my lps.

[seabass]

2 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

like in the video you linked me but in the video they were reducing phosphate to 0 over night

That video is more than 7 years old.  I suppose that it reflected the sentiment at the time.

 

Truth is that, it's not always easy to get rid of pests.  There is virtually an industry dedicated to its pursuit (with some remedies being more legit than others); and people seem willing to do almost anything to rid their tanks of pests.  For common hair algae, manual removal and herbivorous snails seems to be a fairly well-proven method.

 

Sure, there is a lot of conflicting information (and the accepted methods seem to continue to change over time).  Plus, keeping up with the latest trends can be difficult.  Digging through it all and determining what works can be challenging (and sometimes it takes a bit of experience).  Often it becomes a matter of deciding whose opinion you trust most.

 

2 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

something is affecting my lps

Not really sure what's going on there.  I feel that your angelfish might have even taken the rap for something that wasn't entirely its fault.

 

I usually look to unstable alkalinity as the main cause; however, you have reported that alkalinity has been pretty stable.  Excessive flow can sometimes be a problem; but it could also be unstable nutrient levels, pests or a predator, warfare with other corals, lack of feeding, lighting, stray voltage, heavy metals, toxins, temperature, salinity, etc.

[Kindanewtothis]

1 hour ago, seabass said:

feel that your angelfish might have even taken the rap for something that wasn't entirely its fault.

I feel the same. My theory is that the flame started to eat the frogspawn once it started dying. But the flame really was eating it.

[Kindanewtothis]

Ro/Di came in. Now I need to figure out exactly out it works.

[Kindanewtothis]

Ro/Di question:

 

What do I do with these blue tube? Do I cut them to plug the water line on it?

Just now, Kindanewtothis said:

Ro/Di question:

 

What do I do with these blue tube? Do I cut them to plug the water line on it?

Never mind... they are just caps.

[seabass]

 

[Kindanewtothis]

8 minutes ago, seabass said:

 

Now I feel stupid. I've been reading the manual. 

 

Thanks!

[DevilDuck]

Once you get it up and running for a while, I reccomend you get a flush valve to prolong the life of your membrane: 

 

 

[Kindanewtothis]

Making water!

 

No more bottles

 

I used a refrigerator ice maker hook-up kit so I can turn it on and off.

[Kindanewtothis]

1 hour ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Making water!

 

No more bottles

 

I used a refrigerator ice maker hook-up kit so I can turn it on and off.

1 ppm (also got a tds meter)

[seabass]

11 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I used a refrigerator ice maker hook-up kit so I can turn it on and off.

Just checking; it shuts off the flow before the filter, not after; right?

 

You'd need an auto shut off kit to shut off the water after the filter.  This is necessary if you want a float valve to shut off the water once your storage container is full.  Otherwise, you risk forgetting to shut it off, and causing a flood.  I forgot twice before getting mine.

 

9 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

1 ppm (also got a tds meter)

I'm glad that you got a TDS meter.  However, you should read 0 TDS coming from the DI stage.  Did you flush the system like they suggested in the video?

[Kindanewtothis]

4 hours ago, seabass said:

Just checking; it shuts off the flow before the filter, not after; right?

Yes, before the filter.

 

4 hours ago, seabass said:

Did you flush the system like they suggested in the video?

I did exactly like in the video.

[seabass]

It's not that 1 TDS would be bad to use.  It's just that the DI stage should remove the remaining ions.  I'd also be concerned that the DI stage might become quickly exhausted (if the TDS is real).

 

A couple of things.  It's possible that your TDS meter is off and that you are actually getting 0 TDS water from your unit.  I'd tell you to check against distilled water, but that often has 1 or 2 TDS from environmental gasses or the plastic bottle.  Maybe take your meter to your LFS and check some water against one of their meters.

 

Likewise, the TDS could be coming from your storage container, or even the glass that you are testing your water with.  You should be testing the water by collecting some water directly from your output line into a very clean and dry glass.  It's interesting just how little it takes to impart 1 TDS into your sample.  This is probably what's happening.

 

Lastly, the TDS could be real.  This could indicate that something is wrong (or possibly setup wrong).  I would test the TDS of your tap water, the TDS of the water coming out of the RO filter, then the TDS of the water coming from the DI stage.  Hopefully that might help you figure it out.

 

We usually get 0 TDS from the DI stage.  So having detectable TDS in your product water usually indicates that the DI resin is becoming exhausted (although it's often more than 1 TDS).  At a minimum, keep testing your product water; it shouldn't continue to rise.

[Kindanewtothis]

4 hours ago, seabass said:

It's not that 1 TDS would be bad to use.  It's just that the DI stage should remove the remaining ions.  I'd also be concerned that the DI stage might become quickly exhausted (if the TDS is real).

 

A couple of things.  It's possible that your TDS meter is off and that you are actually getting 0 TDS water from your unit.  I'd tell you to check against distilled water, but that often has 1 or 2 TDS from environmental gasses or the plastic bottle.  Maybe take your meter to your LFS and check some water against one of their meters.

 

Likewise, the TDS could be coming from your storage container, or even the glass that you are testing your water with.  You should be testing the water by collecting some water directly from your output line into a very clean and dry glass.  It's interesting just how little it takes to impart 1 TDS into your sample.  This is probably what's happening.

 

Lastly, the TDS could be real.  This could indicate that something is wrong (or possibly setup wrong).  I would test the TDS of your tap water, the TDS of the water coming out of the RO filter, then the TDS of the water coming from the DI stage.  Hopefully that might help you figure it out.

 

We usually get 0 TDS from the DI stage.  So having detectable TDS in your product water usually indicates that the DI resin is becoming exhausted (although it's often more than 1 TDS).  At a minimum, keep testing your product water; it shouldn't continue to rise.

The bucket I use was used before to mix salt. Maybe it wasn't 100% clean. My tap water have 150 tds. 

[seabass]

1 hour ago, Kindanewtothis said:

My tap water have 150 tds. 

This will vary from season to season (and potentially from day to day if there was a storm or even from maintenance on the municipal water system).  The temperature of the water will also affect the rejection rate, and how fast water is produced (but always use water from the cold water supply).

 

You can test the rejection rate by checking the RO output.  For example, 3 TDS out of your RO membrane, from 150 TDS source water, means the membrane has a 98% rejection rate.

 

1 hour ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Maybe it wasn't 100% clean.

Like I said, use a clean, dry glass to collect the sample (directly from the system's tubing) that you are testing.  You should really make sure that everything is working properly (especially when it's first set up).

[Kindanewtothis]

On 3/27/2022 at 1:52 AM, seabass said:

Otherwise, you risk forgetting to shut it off, and causing a flood.  I forgot twice before getting mine

The waste line is directly in the shower drain and the clean water bucket is also in the shower just in case. Thanks for the advice. The water tubes are many feet long.

[Kindanewtothis]

11 minutes ago, seabass said:

This will vary from season to season (and potentially from day to day if there was a storm or even from maintenance on the municipal water system).  The temperature of the water will also affect the rejection rate, and how fast water is produced (but always use water from the cold water supply).

 

You can test the rejection rate by checking the RO output.  For example, 3 TDS out of your RO membrane, from 150 TDS source water, means the membrane has a 98% rejection rate.

 

Like I said, use a clean, dry glass to collect the sample (directly from the system's tubing) that you are testing.  You should really make sure that everything is working properly (especially when it's first set up).

"Making water" again and this time it tested 0 tds! Must have been something in the bucket last time. Thanks again.

[Kindanewtothis]

Haven't seen my cleaner shrimp in a week. Never saw again the emerald crab I added  a few weeks ago.

 

Could it be the pistol shrimp? It snaps all the time.

[M. Tournesol]

2 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Haven't seen my cleaner shrimp in a week. Never saw again the emerald crab I added  a few weeks ago.

 

Could it be the pistol shrimp? It snaps all the time.

Pistol or mantis, the sound are similar. 

My mantis tend to do multiple snaps when it is making its cave. On the contrary my pistol does isolated snaps.

[Kindanewtothis]

1 hour ago, M. Tournesol said:

Pistol or mantis, the sound are similar. 

My mantis tend to do multiple snaps when it is making its cave. On the contrary my pistol does isolated snaps.

Ok. But do you think a pistol would kill a cleaner of the same size?

[M. Tournesol]

23 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Ok. But do you think a pistol would kill a cleaner of the same size?

 

[Kindanewtothis]

6 minutes ago, M. Tournesol said:

 

Yep, I saw the cleaner venturing on the sand bed, it used to stay up on the rocks. So I suppose it's possible.