Kinda's Large Tank Adventure (LTA)

[Kindanewtothis]

6 hours ago, Jakesaw said:

How is your Royal Gramma doing in his new home.   

 

I almost bought one the other day but the RG was medium size and for my 10 gallon probably a bit oversized. I didn't think he'd find enough hiding comfort.  He's in a small tank at the LFS and hiding in a rock cravace.  

 

I will be moving to 20 L in a week or two ( I think ) and will look at him again if still available.  I'll need to see him eat though.

 

Is yours happy and swimming now.  

Isn't 20L a little small? According to liveaquaria.com it needs 30 gallons (which I don't understand since it does'nt really swims)

 

"Royal Gramma Basslet: Saltwater Aquarium Fish" https://m.liveaquaria.com/product/53/?pcatid=53

[Kindanewtothis]

Phosphate is 0.12 in the 50g so that was really a bad test that happened yesterday. I suppose I can stop monitoring it so closely.

 

Also in the 50g, the anemone kinda burried itself in the sand (see picture). It's on the side but that's not too bad. We'll see what happens when the lights will be full on.

 

In the 10 gallons, a scarlet hermit crab molted and a snail died ( in fact I think they sold me a dead one)

[seabass]

1 hour ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Isn't 20L a little small? According to liveaquaria.com it needs 30 gallons (which I don't understand since it does'nt really swims)

Live Aquaria is a very good resource, but it isn't necessarily an absolute.  In your tank, you are keeping an angelfish which states a minimum tank size of 70 gallons.  The considerations when determining a minimum tank size are vast (fish size, impact on bio-load, aggressiveness, typical territory, potential grazing opportunities, available hiding spots, active swimming area, depth of the tank, surface area of the waterline, etc).  So depending on the individual tank, inhabitants, and aquascape, a Royal Gramma could potentially be kept in a 20L.

 

I've also seen where Live Aquaria lists a minimum tank size which seems too small.  Sometimes you can rely on experience with a fish, comparing what Live Aquaria lists as a min tank size, to help determine a suitable environment for a fish.  The goal is really to provide a safe, healthy, and comfortable home for your fish.

[seabass]

19 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I suppose I can stop monitoring it so closely.

With a cyano bloom, as well as the large swings, and the possibility of dosing nitrate (which could impact phosphate numbers), I would continue to monitor daily.  You can lighten up on testing once you can accurately predict the test results (prior to testing).

[Kindanewtothis]

35 minutes ago, seabass said:

Live Aquaria is a very good resource, but it isn't necessarily an absolute.  In your tank, you are keeping an angelfish which states a minimum tank size of 70 gallons.  The considerations when determining a minimum tank size are vast (fish size, impact on bio-load, aggressiveness, typical territory, potential grazing opportunities, available hiding spots, active swimming area, depth of the tank, surface area of the waterline, etc).  So depending on the individual tank, inhabitants, and aquascape, a Royal Gramma could potentially be kept in a 20L.

 

I've also seen where Live Aquaria lists a minimum tank size which seems too small.  Sometimes you can rely on experience with a fish, comparing what Live Aquaria lists as a min tank size, to help determine a suitable environment for a fish.  The goal is really to provide a safe, healthy, and comfortable home for your fish.

So what can I really keep alone in that 10 gallons?

 

I understand that (if we forget about the ammonia spike) the RG could have been kept in the 10g (that wasn't the plan).

[seabass]

1 hour ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I understand that (if we forget about the ammonia spike) the RG could have been kept in the 10g

Wow, that's quite a turn from a couple of hours ago when you said, "Isn't 20L a little small? According to liveaquaria.com it needs 30 gallons".  However, I'd say that it was fine to quarantine a juvenile Royal Gramma in a 10 gallon tank for a month; but I probably wouldn't consider it a good long term home.

 

1 hour ago, Kindanewtothis said:

So what can I really keep alone in that 10 gallons?

It's somewhat limited.  Despite what I might have said above about Live Aquaria minimum tank sizes not being absolute, I'd still use them to help you pick a suitable fish for your 10 gallon tank.  Basically there are a handful of gobies or blennies (but not all gobies or blennies) which can be kept.

 

However, for a much more liberal list (some of which I might argue against), there is lgreen's Ultimate Guide To Nano Fish which lists (including the Royal Gramma):

• Blue Neon Goby
• Catalina Goby [cold water]
• Clown Gobies
• Eviota Gobies
• Panda (Clown) Goby
• Redhead Goby
• Trimma Goby
• Yellow Neon Goby
• Citron Goby
• Green Banded Goby
• Ocellaris Clownfish (False Percula)
• Percula Clownfish (True Percula)
• Atlantic Pygmy/Cherub Angelfish
• Yellow Assessor
• Blue Assessor
• Tailspot Blenny
• Threadfin Cardinalfish
• Green Chromis Damsel
• Yellow Tail Blue Damsel
• Three Spot Damsel
• Talbot’s Damsel
• Three Stripe Damsel
• Firefish Goby
• Helfrich’s Firefish
• Purple Firefish Goby
• Bicolor Psuedochromis
• Diadem Pseudochromis
• Fridmani (Orchid) Pseudochromis
• Purple Pseudochromis
• Springeri Pseudochromis
• Scooter Blenny [with caution, not for beginners]
• Red Scooter Blenny [with caution, not for beginners]
• Painted Frogfish
• Wartskin Frogfish
• Blackray Shrimp Goby
• Orange Stripe Goby
• Orangespotted Goby
• Randall’s Shrimp Goby
• Yasha Hasha Goby
• Wheeler’s Shrimp Goby
• Yellow Watchman Goby
• Rainfordi Goby
• Royal Gramma
• Falco Hawkfish
• Flame Hawkfish
• Pearly (Yellowhead) Jawfish
• Possum Wrasse

[Kindanewtothis]

1 hour ago, seabass said:

In your tank, you are keeping an angelfish which states a minimum tank size of 70 gallons

I know and at first it was going in a 30g, but 50g vs 70g is not the same then 20L vs 30g. 

 

1 minute ago, seabass said:

Wow, that's quite a turn from a couple of hours ago when you said, "Isn't 20L a little small? According to liveaquaria.com it needs 30 gallons". 

I'm just trying to understand. I was just suprised by the 20L.

[seabass]

1 minute ago, Kindanewtothis said:

but 50g vs 70g is not the same then 20L vs 30g. 

That depends on how you look at it.  A 20L has the same footprint at a standard 29 gallon tank:

30.25" x 12.5" x 12.75" versus 30.25" x 12.5" x 18.75"

 

[Kindanewtothis]

2 minutes ago, seabass said:

That depends on how you look at it.  A 20L has the same footprint at a standard 29 gallon tank:

30.25" x 12.5" x 12.75" versus 30.25" x 12.5" x 18.75"

 

Ok I think I did not undersand well. For me, 20L is 20 liters (so like what 5 gallons?)

[seabass]

35 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Ok I think I did not undersand well. For me, 20L is 20 liters (so like what 5 gallons?)

No, it stands for a 20 gallon Long (30.25" x 12.5" x 12.75"), versus a 20 gallon High (24.25" x 12.5" x 16.75").

 

[Kindanewtothis]

3 minutes ago, seabass said:

No, it stands for a 20 gallon Long, versus a 20 gallon High (24.25" x 12.5" x 16.75").

 

Really sorry, you can forget everything about it. I really misunderstood the 20L. I'm sure you can understand that I was surprised by keeping a RG in a 20 liters tank.

 

And sorry to @Jakesaw... I'm more used to the metric system and I speak french. I hope you get a RG in good health and eating.

[seabass]

No problem at all.  It's entirely understandable; I'm actually surprised this confusion isn't more common.

[Kindanewtothis]

2 hours ago, seabass said:

some of which I might argue against

Cherub angelfish I presume. But what's your input on the yellow watchman goby and the flame hawkfish (kept alone)

[Kindanewtothis]

13 hours ago, Jakesaw said:

How is your Royal Gramma doing in his new home. 

 

[seabass]

17 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Cherub angelfish I presume.

In my opinion, a 20 Long might be suitable for a small fish that swims and grazes as much a Pygmy Angelfish (which Live Aquaria recommends at least 55 gallons for).  A 40 gallon Breeder would be a better choice.  I personally wouldn't put one in a 10 gallon tank.

 

22 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

what's your input on the yellow watchman goby and the flame hawkfish (kept alone)

Again, referring to Live Aquaria, they recommend 30 gallons for either a Yellow Watchman Goby or a Flame Hawkfish.  The difference between 30 and 10 gallons is substantial.  Perhaps you need to purchase a larger tank.

[Kindanewtothis]

1 minute ago, seabass said:

Perhaps you need to purchase a larger tank.

No, I'll find something suitable for the 10g. If I ever get another tank it would be bigger than my 50g.

[Kindanewtothis]

Frogspawn (if it is what it is) is on fire today. Other mushroom completly split in two. It's huge.

[Tired]

For the 10 gallon, you could get one of the smaller shrimpgobies, like a yasha haze or antenna goby, and pair it with a candycane pistol shrimp. Then pick something small, colorful, and perching to provide some color on top of the roc, like a clown goby. . There aren't really any actively swimming saltwater fish you can put in a tank that size, because active swimming means they need more space. An ocellaris clownfish might be okay. 

[Kindanewtothis]

4 hours ago, Tired said:

For the 10 gallon, you could get one of the smaller shrimpgobies, like a yasha haze or antenna goby, and pair it with a candycane pistol shrimp. Then pick something small, colorful, and perching to provide some color on top of the roc, like a clown goby. . There aren't really any actively swimming saltwater fish you can put in a tank that size, because active swimming means they need more space. An ocellaris clownfish might be okay. 

I don't really know gobys. You can keep 2 different kind together?

 

Regarding the clown fish that would be nice if I did not already have 2 ocellaris in the 50 gallons and I would switch them if it wasn't for the anemone. Another type of clownfish maybe?

[Kindanewtothis]

@seabass How about a yellow tail blue damsel or green chromis? It says 2-3 fishs but live aquaria indicates 30 gallons. 

[Clown79]

2 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I don't really know gobys. You can keep 2 different kind together?

 

Regarding the clown fish that would be nice if I did not already have 2 ocellaris in the 50 gallons and I would switch them if it wasn't for the anemone. Another type of clownfish maybe?

No, only ocellaris/percula in a 10g. All the rest need larger tanks and are also far more aggressive. 

 

Goby mixing is hit and miss. If they inhabit the same areas or look similar, it can become an issue. Thats why i suggest the tailspot because its an awesome fish, colourful, full of character, moves around, and eats algae.

[Kindanewtothis]

2 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Thats why i suggest the tailspot because its an awesome fish, colourful, full of character, moves around, and eats algae

I'll certainly remember it this time. Took a look on liveaquaria.com, it's the feeding part that worries me.

[Clown79]

23 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I'll certainly remember it this time. Took a look on liveaquaria.com, it's the feeding part that worries me.

Even some gobies are hard to feed, particularly clown gobies. 

 

Providing nori strips to blennies and small veggie pellets usually helps. 

[seabass]

You talked about a shrimp/goby pair; that sounded pretty reasonable.  I feel that most of your other inquiries would do better in a larger tank (at least a 20 Long, maybe larger).

 

You can mix certain gobies if you want.  While I'm not 100% certain, I suspect that a yellow clown goby and a neon goby might work.  I might have even kept that combination at one point (I can't remember for sure).

 

You asked about other clownfish.  Ocellaris are probably the best to keep in a tank this size.  However , there are different colors and patterns available to choose from.  Although single Ocellaris clowns without anemones often hang out in undesirable areas (like near a powerhead).  And since you already have clownfish, I'd probably choose something else.

 

I've seen small single damsels kept in ten gallon tanks before.  I'm not really sure how I feel about that.  But if doing this, make sure that you don't add any other fish as they can be/get super aggressive.

[Kindanewtothis]

17 hours ago, seabass said:

You talked about a shrimp/goby pair; that sounded pretty reasonable.  I feel that most of your other inquiries would do better in a larger tank (at least a 20 Long, maybe larger)

Yeah, shrimp/goby pair is probably the way to go but I like exploring my options. 10 gallons is a bit more hard to fill that I expected (guess I made the comparison with a fresh water tank). But I still think that something cool can be made out of that 10g tank.

 

An experimented reefer told me that I could keep soft corals and zoas with the LED lights I got on amazon. I did not think I could keep anything with a 40$ light so I'm still not sure. Might try it when the tank is a bit older, I guess I could always transfer it to the 50 if it doesn't work.