Kinda's Large Tank Adventure (LTA)

[Kindanewtothis]

8 hours ago, mcarroll said:

You want something like this:

https://a.co/d/0CkEmpB

 

Any pool supply stores in your area?

Did you saw the price??? And it comes 25 pounds bag ( other brands also)...

[seabass]

1 hour ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I still have time to cancel my Amazon order.

I believe that mcarroll was suggesting that the pleated cartridge would likely be sufficient.   I might hold off for now, you could always buy DE later on.

[Kindanewtothis]

13 minutes ago, seabass said:

I believe that mcarroll was suggesting that the pleated cartridge would likely be sufficient.   I might hold off for now, you could always buy DE later on.

Too late to cancel the food grade DE, I will receive it in 2 days.

 

The filter is out for delivery.

 

So, do I use just the filter or do I use it with the food grade DE? Figure I might as well use the DE since I paid for it.

 

 

[mcarroll]

2 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

So food grade is not good?

 

I thought it was safer.

 

Yes there are pool store around, but I will have to buy a big quantity. So can I use food grade DE? I still have time to cancel my Amazon order.

Everything I read is "no".  

 

I think it's like the difference between limestone and cement.

 

They are related, but very different products.

 

And OPTIONAL.

 

I'd cancel the order and see how it goes without DE first.

[Kindanewtothis]

5 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Everything I read is "no".  

 

I think it's like the difference between limestone and cement.

 

They are related, but very different products.

 

And OPTIONAL.

 

I'd cancel the order and see how it goes without DE first.

 

5 hours ago, seabass said:

I believe that mcarroll was suggesting that the pleated cartridge would likely be sufficient.   I might hold off for now, you could always buy DE later on.

 

 

No DE.

[Kindanewtothis]

6 hours ago, mcarroll said:

They are related, but very different products.

Yup, I did my homework now and the one for pool is transformed and the powder is then finer. Just cannont find any in the pool stores in my city. Only I could only find big pouches that would last 2 lifetime and are expensive.

[mcarroll]

55 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Only I could only find big pouches that would last 2 lifetime and are expensive.

It's kinda funny how that's the only size.  You need some friends with DE filters so you can split a bag!  LOL.

 

Any chance if you made a request for a smaller size that one of the pool stores could order something in for you?

 

What about Etsy or eBay?  Anyone selling smaller quantities there?

[Kindanewtothis]

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

kinda funny how that's the only size.  You need some friends with DE filters so you can split a bag!  LOL.

Yeah, that doesn't seems to be a popular way of filling a filter around here. People have mostly sand filter (like me) or a cartridge filter for their pool.

 

Plus, it's - 1000 degres outside here. I have 10 feet of snow in front of my house so it is really not pool season here and these store are only running for people with spas or for sales for next summer (it last about 48 hours here so don't miss it😅)

 

I found someone giving away a full crate of what I think is the right thing (see picture), so I asked them if I could have only one pouch. Waiting for an answer.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Kindanewtothis

[Kindanewtothis]

2 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I found someone giving away a full crate of what I think is the right thing (see picture), so I asked them if I could have only one pouch. Waiting for an answer.

Made some research, it's not the right product. DE is the way to go I think and they even tell you how to do it with the magnum user manual... At this point why doesn't Marineland sell it? All you need is 6 spoons to do it.

[mcarroll]

12 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Made some research, it's not the right product. DE is the way to go I think and they even tell you how to do it with the magnum user manual... At this point why doesn't Marineland sell it? All you need is 6 spoons to do it.

• It does get you 1µ filtration. But...
• It's uber messy.
• Very dangerous to inhale any of it.
• The filter will need to be cleaned and recharged with DE frequently while it's in use, possibly weekly or more often.
• The filter works really well even without it, and on a much longer cleaning cycle, but with somewhat less filtering, 25µ vs 1µ.
• Grown dino's would be caught even in a fresh 25µ filter.
• As the 25µ filter runs and slowly becomes clogged, the micron rating will naturally improve toward 1µ, catching more and more life phases and other smaller critters.  
• You might choose to clean it more frequently for some/any reason, which would limit this phenomena.

 

I'd consider using DE if I was putting it on a tank with a full-on outbreak of something.  But using it is a commitment.

 

Marineland used to include one DE packet with every Magnum canister....that was back when they were canister filters tho. (60's-00's?)  Makes me wonder a little bit why they don't still sell it, but I also wonder if the reason is in that list above....liability?

[Kindanewtothis]

51 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

• It does get you 1µ filtration. But...
• It's uber messy.
• Very dangerous to inhale any of it.
• The filter will need to be cleaned and recharged with DE frequently while it's in use, possibly weekly or more often.
• The filter works really well even without it, and on a much longer cleaning cycle, but with somewhat less filtering, 25µ vs 1µ.
• Grown dino's would be caught even in a fresh 25µ filter.
• As the 25µ filter runs and slowly becomes clogged, the micron rating will naturally improve toward 1µ, catching more and more life phases and other smaller critters.  
• You might choose to clean it more frequently for some/any reason, which would limit this phenomena.

 

I'd consider using DE if I was putting it on a tank with a full-on outbreak of something.  But using it is a commitment.

 

Marineland used to include one DE packet with every Magnum canister....that was back when they were canister filters tho. (60's-00's?)  Makes me wonder a little bit why they don't still sell it, but I also wonder if the reason is in that list above....liability?

This all make sens. I just check and ostreopsis are 40-80µ so 25 should indeed to the trick.

[Kindanewtothis]

Marineland magnum 200 is clogged... 

 

Tryed to clean the filter without success.

 

 

 

 

[seabass]

Soak it in a 10:1 ratio water to bleach overnight.  Then rinse it out and let it dry.  It's handy to have two on hand so that you can use one while the other is soaking.

[Kindanewtothis]

56 minutes ago, seabass said:

Soak it in a 10:1 ratio water to bleach overnight.  Then rinse it out and let it dry.  It's handy to have two on hand so that you can use one while the other is soaking.

I thought of that but they say not to use chemical on the filter.

[mcarroll]

Do you have a decent pressure nozzle?  If that won't break loose the crud, then you'll have to replace the filter.

 

Pretty unusual for one to clog like that though....is it clogged with DE or just tank gunk?

 

For what it's worth my Polisher came with instructions for cleaning with bleach....pretty much what seabass said.  I would suggest limiting the amount of time in the bleach solution to the MINIMUM necessary to get the job done.  The rubber end seals WILL be affected by bleach...they will get sticky and possibly shrink a little.   Neither effect should be too noticeable if you keep t he time limited.   Obviously don't mix the bleach solution any stronger than recommended, and MAKE SURE you have good ventilation where the soak is taking place.   This is a last resort to when pressure cleaning won't work (which it usually should) or when you actually want to sterilize the filter.  In other words, you shouldn't need to bleach it every time.

[Kindanewtothis]

4 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Do you have a decent pressure nozzle? 

Nope 😅 It's a long story but I need to invest on the house plumbing...

 

Will try again, just got an idea.

 

If it wasn't winter I could do it outside...

 

14 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

is it clogged with DE or just tank gunk?

No DE, just the micron filter.

 

21 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

or what it's worth my Polisher came with instructions for cleaning with bleach....pretty much what seabass said.  I would suggest limiting the amount of time in the bleach solution to the MINIMUM necessary to get the job done.  The rubber end seals WILL be affected by bleach...they will get sticky and possibly shrink a little.   Neither effect should be too noticeable if you keep t he time limited.   Obviously don't mix the bleach solution any stronger than recommended, and MAKE SURE you have good ventilation where the soak is taking place.   This is a last resort to when pressure cleaning won't work (which it usually should) or when you actually want to sterilize the filter.  In other words, you shouldn't need to bleach it every time.

I'll try again with water pressure but if it doesn't work, I'll try bleach. Will also get a second filter. I think I should have went with the magnum 290 considering my tank size. 

[mcarroll]

It "shouldn't" clog so quickly as time goes on....but maybe you could use the bigger model.  Time will tell.

[Kindanewtothis]

On 2/9/2023 at 10:29 PM, Kindanewtothis said:

Nope 😅 It's a long story but I need to invest on the house plumbing...

 

Will try again, just got an idea.

 

If it wasn't winter I could do it outside...

 

No DE, just the micron filter.

 

I'll try again with water pressure but if it doesn't work, I'll try bleach. Will also get a second filter. I think I should have went with the magnum 290 considering my tank size. 

 

On 2/9/2023 at 8:51 PM, seabass said:

Soak it in a 10:1 ratio water to bleach overnight.  Then rinse it out and let it dry.  It's handy to have two on hand so that you can use one while the other is soaking.

High water pressure worked, filter is back in fonction. Time will tell if it is enough but from what I see it won't be enough...

[Kindanewtothis]

[mcarroll]

Folks do go overboard trying to coddle fish on their way to the display tank, sometimes doing more harm than good.

 

As hilarious as that meme is to look at, wildlife officials are closer to correct.   😄 

[Kindanewtothis]

 

Dinos are still present and are now covering some rocks and parts of the sandbed when the lights are on. The micron filter clogs fast and I need to clean it 2 times a week.

 

 

so I decided to try the UV way. I still need to get a pump as I could not get one locally (I could only find pumps with high gph. I will shop on www.aquariumdepot.ca to find something more suitable. Adjustable flow rate would be nice because it needs to be low for dinos in the DT but I would like to set it up in the sump eventually. The back of the tank is painted in black so I will wait and see if the looks is not so terrible and keep it working in the display. Could the pump be at the bottom of one of the overflow?

 

The torchs are doing well and are getting slowly bigger.

 

 

Hammers are going well also but the one on the left in the picture tends to open less. I'm suspecting a too direct flow to be the problem.

 

 

My candy canes are having a hard time for a while now. They have been covered with dinos but not anymore. I do not have any strings of dinos in the tank anymore (result of the Marineland magnum 200?). If you zoom on the photo you will see that the skeleton is showing.

 

Came across some green star polyps. Placed it on a rock that doesn't touch the main rockwork. I'll see how it goes but I like the idea of a gsp back wall. I know there are downsides to it, but the upside of my girlfriend shutting up about how the back wall looks is pretty convincing 😅

 

 

I do not know if I will get more baby snails but the 7 or 8 trochus that were born in my sump are now full size (they grew up really fast).

 

 

 

[Kindanewtothis]

This new UV sterilizer is massive. It will not fit behind the tank but would fit well on the side. I might also use longer hoses and install it in the cabinet under the tank with the hoses pumping the water from and to the DT.

 

This model requires 400-1200 gph.

 

For dinos, the rule of thumb is 1 to 3 times the water volume of the display. This means about 100 to 300 gph.

 

Found a really cheap pump that has an adjustable flow rate (max 400 gph), but it won't do because the the hose size must be 1/2" or 2/3".

 

My UV needs 3/4", 1" or 1 1/4" hoses. So I must find a compatible pump (low gph but working with large hoses).

 

Edit: found this one: https://a.co/d/8vJldCX

 

Now thinking about using it inline.

 

 

 

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, Kindanewtothis said:

This new UV sterilizer is massive. It will not fit behind the tank but would fit well on the side.

Looks like it needs to be turret mounted! 😉 

 

1 hour ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I might also use longer hoses and install it in the cabinet under the tank with the hoses pumping the water from and to the DT.

The potential downside is that longer plumbing requires a larger pump.

 

Do they give you any kind of head or PSI rating on that unit, maybe in the printed docs?

 

1 hour ago, Kindanewtothis said:

This model requires 400-1200 gph.

 

For dinos, the rule of thumb is 1 to 3 times the water volume of the display. This means about 100 to 300 gph.

Eh...the rule of thumb for dino's would generally be given in watts per gallon or gallons per watt...something like that.  The flow rate would always be specific to the UV unit....sometimes because the pump is integrated and there's no choice. 😉 

 

In your case, you can go by the other half of the same rule of thumb, which says that you operate the unit at the low end of its advertised flow range.  (Below that and you may create an over-heating problem....otherwise you can increase the UV dosage even further.  Just don't make a fire. 😳)

 

Think of "400 to 1200" more or less as "Dino's to Algae".

 

You should be fine to target 400 GPH.  Just make sure it's actual GPH, not just going by a pump rating.  Measure the output, etc, to be sure.

 

Once you decide on the install configuration and plumbing size, selecting the pump isn't hard.  (Until then, you're somewhat guessing tho.). Post details when you decide!  👍  (You can always un-decide. LOL)

 

1 hour ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Found a really cheap pump that has an adjustable flow rate (max 400 gph), but it won't do because the the hose size must be 1/2" or 2/3".

 

My UV needs 3/4", 1" or 1 1/4" hoses. So I must find a compatible pump (low gph but working with large hoses).

 

Edit: found this one: https://a.co/d/8vJldCX

 

Now thinking about using it inline.

400 GPH ÷ 5 = 80

 

....so if your tank is 80 gallons or less (maybe 100 or less), then you can run 100% of your return flow through this UV and still target dino's.

 

But I *think* your tank is on the wrong side of the math (too big) for in-line to work ideally for *this* purpose.  

 

In-line could make PERFECT sense after the dino's are gone IF you wanted to keep the UV around in a higher-flow role.  (I.e algae killer)

 

You can get bushings and adapters from Home Depot/Lowes/Ace/Whatever to bring those UV fittings down to whatever size you need it to be for your tubing....which can be different from the pumps outlet size, which may also need some adapters and/or bushings.   A Mag pump with a 1/2" outlet would be a GREAT pump for this application, for example.  

 

Just be mindful of going too small on the plumbing which can restrict the pump too much to get the flow numbers you need.  To an extent, "bigger = better" when it comes to tubing.  If you're thinking 1/2", then you should probably go 3/4".   (Etc)  This will minimize friction losses to GPH and let you optimize better on the pump....which should save some money up front vs buying a larger pump AND in the long run since a smaller pump is cheaper per-GPH to operate than a larger pump.  (Even at the same GPH.)

[Kindanewtothis]

38 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Eh...the rule of thumb for dino's would generally be given in watts per gallon or gallons per watt...something like that.  The flow rate would always be specific to the UV unit....sometimes because the pump is integrated and there's no choice. 😉

This is from the document "Dealing with dinoflagellates" from Mack's reef dinoflagellates support group.

[Kindanewtothis]

5 hours ago, mcarroll said:

400 GPH ÷ 5 = 80

 

....so if your tank is 80 gallons or less (maybe 100 or less), then you can run 100% of your return flow through this UV and still target dino's.

 

But I *think* your tank is on the wrong side of the math (too big) for in-line to work ideally for *this* purpose.

I don't follow this part. Why do you divide it by 5? 

 

What is the problem with inline? I really like the idea of not having the pump in the display.