Kinda's Large Tank Adventure (LTA)

[mcarroll]

22 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

This is from the document "Dealing with dinoflagellates" from Mack's reef dinoflagellates support group.

Once again I really can't recommend another source than the thread I started.  From what I can tell that Facebook group is derivative of my thread (which is fine as far as it goes...everyone has internet access) but not totally accurate in their "paraphrasing" or assertions, which isn't that helpful....like this example. 😉 

 

If possible, try to stick with the guidance here or on my dino thread.  GKM's work when used properly.  (Thread search for "machine" here to read up on some examples)  

 

I don't remember anyone having any particular trouble with any UV filter as long as it was used properly.  (None of this is foolproof.)

 

Flow for a UV, as I said already, is going to be specific to the UV unit you're talking about.  It controls the UV dose rate.  So the ideal flow is the one that gets you closest to the target dose.  Exposures are cumulative to some extent, so this is why a GKM can work...it just has to be oversized, and in the display so it can reprocess the dino's enough times.

 

Stick with us, man!  🙂 

 

17 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I don't follow this part. Why do you divide it by 5? 

It's simply the return flow algorithm in reverse....we usually multiple the display size X4 or X5 to get the "required" GPH for the return pump.

 

So your tank needs that flow at minimum through the sump...

...which means your UV will have to be strong enough to deliver the target UV dose at that flow rate (or greater).

 

Unless I'm mistaken about your tank size, I don't think this UV has the oomph to kill dino's at the flow rate you would need.

 

17 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

What is the problem with inline? I really like the idea of not having the pump in the display.

No problem other than the UV (probably; see above) not being quite strong enough to kill dino's effectively in that configuration.

 

If I'm wrong about the tank size, then there's nothing wrong with in-line at all!  🙂 

[Kindanewtothis]

3 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Flow for a UV, as I said already, is going to be specific to the UV unit you're talking about

Found this!

 

 

 

So that would be 290 gph according to this, But:

I guess I can go under 400?

 

[mcarroll]

5 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Found this!

Money!

 

You want to target around 90,000-100,000 µw s/cm² (or more) for dino's.

 

5 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

 

So that would be 290 gph according to this, But:

I guess I can go under 400?

The graph says you need to hit around 290 GPH to get into parasite-killing range – even less GPH would be better as far as the UV dose goes.  (Your advantage is that the unit is servicing a MUCH smaller volume of water than the 500 gallons that it's rated for, so the re-treatment rate should be high for every dino cell.)

 

But 290 GPH is lower than the minimum flow range they recommend (400+ GPH).  🤷‍♂️

 

You might ask about going that low.....see Page 1 for their contact info.

 

If set it up with a flow <400 GPH without checking, then I would try to notice if the water exiting the filter seemed to be warmer than the tank water.....also notice if the filter itself seems to run extra hot.  (Maybe try it with a recommended flow rate first so you know what "normal" is.)

 

A little warmer than the tank water might be OK, but much warmer could indicate a lack of adequate cooling for the bulb/electronics.  It can affect bulb performance even before it becomes a safety concern.

[Kindanewtothis]

8 hours ago, mcarroll said:

You might ask about going that low.....see Page 1 for their contact info

Waiting for an answer, I'll let you know.

[Kindanewtothis]

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Now THAT is some excellent turnaround on their part!

 

They also hit the nail right on the head while they were at it.

 

 This is why you should actually measure the filters output once it's all set up to make sure you're getting the flow rate they (and we) are predicting.

 

All the name-brand pumps I'd recommend seem quite expnsive on Amazon.ca...and I'm not too trusting of the no-name pumps like the one you linked.  I wouldn't use one for a return pump without having a second one on-hand as a standby, which of course doubles the cost of using that pump.

 

If you have a LFS, consider getting a pump from them...even if it's a no-name, at least they will be less likely to leave you up a river without a paddle when it fails.  

 

Anything in the 500 GPH category should work.  (I don't know of any pumps rated specifically at 400 GPH, but that would be fine too...maybe ideal.)

 

Try the pump plumbed straight in to your UV for maximum flow.  If you need to (ie measured output is too high), then cut in a valve to throttle the flow out of the pump.  If you're doing a short plumbing run, make sure to leave enough plumbing at install time to allow a cut-in.  Some pumps have a mechanical throttle built in (eg Lifeguard and Sicce), so maybe consider one of those brands for a simpler install.  

 

 

[Kindanewtothis]

5 hours ago, mcarroll said:

All the name-brand pumps I'd recommend seem quite expnsive on Amazon.ca...and I'm not too trusting of the no-name pumps like the one you linked.  I wouldn't use one for a return pump without having a second one on-hand as a standby, which of course doubles the cost of using that pump.

Just received my pump. I've ordered it the other day except I took the bigger model (800 ghp). The plan is not to use it as a return pump but only to run the UV. So if the pump stop working only the UV will be affected. 

 

Still looking at my options regarding the set up of it all. I bought some pvc elbows and 1" hoses.

 

[seabass]

6 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Still looking at my options regarding the set up of it all. I bought some pvc elbows and 1" hoses.

Here are some diagrams which might give you an idea.

http://uvsterilizerworld.blogspot.com/2015/11/setup.html

 

You don't necessarily need to use just 1" plumbing.  Reducers will restrict the flow, but that might be a good thing.

[Kindanewtothis]

Looks like I'm a plumber again... I got the butt crack and everything!

[Kindanewtothis]

It's working. No leek. Those hose were hard to work with, I had to heat them with an hair dryer. Flow should be around 400 gph (50% power) but I will calculate it.

[Kindanewtothis]

On 1/6/2023 at 7:15 PM, mcarroll said:

Provide more frequent feedings.  If necessary...Eheim's auto feeder is a very reliable choice, and flexible in scheduling up to 8 feedings per day....also uber simple to set up.

 

Rearranging your rockwork might help, but also disturbs your corals.

 

Swapping out the fish is another option.

Never told you but it worked! CB did not touch anything else.

[Kindanewtothis]

The pump has 6 power levels. It's set at 2/6 and the output flow rate (after the UV) is around 300 gph (4 liters in 11.1 secondes). 

 

It will be working 24/7 except 1-2 hours at the begin of "lights out time" to dose phyto.

[mcarroll]

On 3/4/2023 at 8:24 AM, Kindanewtothis said:

It's working. No leek. Those hose were hard to work with, I had to heat them with an hair dryer. Flow should be around 400 gph (50% power) but I will calculate it.

No hose clamps???

 

Even if it's just for good measure, you should have some of these "click clamps" on there:

 

[Kindanewtothis]

35 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

No hose clamps???

 

Even if it's just for good measure, you should have some of these "click clamps" on there:

 

Directly on the UV connection that could be safer. The rest, the fit are so thight that I had to heat the hoses to be able to fit it in and I'm not sure I would be able to remove the plumbing parts from the hoses.

[mcarroll]

8 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Directly on the UV connection that could be safer. The rest, the fit are so thight that I had to heat the hoses to be able to fit it in and I'm not sure I would be able to remove the plumbing parts from the hoses.

I know what you mean about having to heat the hose.   Still better safe than sorry – IMO add some clamps when you are able to.  (I just had an install where I did both....hot water to get the tube on the fitting; click-clamp to make sure it stays.)

 

They cost almost nothing....around $1 a piece or maybe less.

 

It's conceivable for tubing to become brittle and have a different character than when you installed it.

 

Again, better safe than sorry. 👍

[Kindanewtothis]

On 1/28/2023 at 10:13 AM, seabass said:

It's still a risk.  I might wait 'til Valentine's Day.

Waited another month. I will soon be transfering everything from the 10g to the main tank. 

 

There is just some kind of "orange hair algae" that I cannot identify. Anyone has an ID ?

[mcarroll]

Can you get a look under a microscope?  

 

Orange *could* indicate the main pigment in dino's.....but there are other posibilities too.  (Doesn't look very Dino-ish in the pics, FWIW.  Doesn't look familiar at all, at least from the pics so far.)

 

How orange is it?  Does it actually seem fluorescent?

[Kindanewtothis]

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Can you get a look under a microscope?  

I will

 

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

 

Orange *could* indicate the main pigment in dino's.....but there are other posibilities too.  (Doesn't look very Dino-ish in the pics, FWIW.  Doesn't look familiar at all, at least from the pics so far.)

100% not dinos. 

 

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

How orange is it?  Does it actually seem fluorescent?

Pics were taken with with light so the colour is as it appears. Not fluorescent but there are no blue light on that tank.

[Kindanewtothis]

18 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Can you get a look under a microscope?  

 

Orange *could* indicate the main pigment in dino's.....but there are other posibilities too.  (Doesn't look very Dino-ish in the pics, FWIW.  Doesn't look familiar at all, at least from the pics so far.)

 

How orange is it?  Does it actually seem fluorescent?

Ok it's not algae. It is some kind of worm and the orange hairs are so sort of tentacles...

 

 

[Kindanewtothis]

 

[Kindanewtothis]

Medusa worm?

 

Edit: I think these are spaghetti worms

Edited March 14, 2023 by Kindanewtothis

[Kindanewtothis]

There is a six line wrasse at my LFS, would it eat spaghetti worms?

 

Some say they are CUC other that they can irritate zoas?

[mcarroll]

2 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Some say they are CUC other that they can irritate zoas?

Pay attention to "some" and ignore the "others".

 

I don't really understand why the "others" even get into reefing since EVERYTHING seems to freak them out. 🙀

 

Seems like guppies or stamp collecting should be more their speed. 😉 

 

Spaghetti worms are one of the many critters that potentially make "sand" in to "live sand".

 

If you happen to be unfamiliar with the benefits of a REAL live sand bed.....well that wouldn't be a surprise since most folks don't maintain one. 😉   Worth some time googling for the few folks who are dedicated to it. (I'm sure there is more out there, but Dr Ron Shimek has written most famously on keeping a real, live sand bed.  He's got his own blog and a blog on Reef2Rainforest.)

 

In a nutshell: You have to leave a sand bed mostly alone since critters like the spaghetti worm are very delicate.  One good gravel vacuuming is probably all it would take to turn a live sand bed into a dead sand bed where you have to worry about accumulating dirt/detritus like everyone else does.

 

(Most folks don't keep a sand bed deep enough to be a REAL-REAL live sand bed....but you can still get as close as possible.)

 

 

[Kindanewtothis]

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

Pay attention to "some" and ignore the "others".

 

I don't really understand why the "others" even get into reefing since EVERYTHING seems to freak them out. 🙀

 

Seems like guppies or stamp collecting should be more their speed. 😉 

 

Spaghetti worms are one of the many critters that potentially make "sand" in to "live sand".

 

If you happen to be unfamiliar with the benefits of a REAL live sand bed.....well that wouldn't be a surprise since most folks don't maintain one. 😉   Worth some time googling for the few folks who are dedicated to it. (I'm sure there is more out there, but Dr Ron Shimek has written most famously on keeping a real, live sand bed.  He's got his own blog and a blog on Reef2Rainforest.)

 

In a nutshell: You have to leave a sand bed mostly alone since critters like the spaghetti worm are very delicate.  One good gravel vacuuming is probably all it would take to turn a live sand bed into a dead sand bed where you have to worry about accumulating dirt/detritus like everyone else does.

 

(Most folks don't keep a sand bed deep enough to be a REAL-REAL live sand bed....but you can still get as close as possible.)

 

 

Ok I understand that spaghetti worms are not really a problem and should I transfer a few from the qt tank to the main would not be a problem.

 

My sand bed is not deep (max 2 inches). They are pods, bristle worms and snails living in it (2 conch and 5 or 6 nassarius). I don't vaccum much, the pistol shrimp and the CUC does most of the maintenance.

[Kindanewtothis]

Dinos are mostly gone. I need to check some samples but the situation is clearly going in the right direction. I have lowered the flow rate to the minimum level on the UV pump about 10 days ago maybe it is just a coincidence. I'm NOT planning on removing it from the DT and I keep the low flow on for a while after dinos will be completely cleared.

 

I have transfered most of the rocks from the wild in the main tank inspecting them closely. I've dipped some rocks to clear spaghetti worms and bristle worms (way too big for my taste). I think I over fed in the Qt tank...

 

Except for candy cane that was covered in dinos at some point and that I manipulated wait too much (me or the urchin since it wasn't glued anymore), every single coral looks good, is growing/spreading and seems healthy for my short experienced eyes.

 

Vermetid snails have reduced to the point that it doesn't seems to be a problem anymore. I manualy removed some but other than that I do not know why the population lowered.

 

My phyto culture crashed, I think it developped cyanobacteria in it but if I harvested regulary it looked ok and the cyano (or what I think it is) stayed in the 53 microns filter. However, for some reason it just crashed, went from green to yellow.

 

I will clean everything with vinegar and start over. I bought 2 bottles of phyto one is nannochloropsis and the second is tetraselmis. I'm planning on culturing both from now on. I would light better lighting for it and will look for options.

 

I lost a chromis a few weeks ago and they are now 5. No idea what happened to the 6th one and I never withessed any agression in the group.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Kindanewtothis
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