Cnidarious Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 I`m thinking about making a more interesting rockwork design. right now its more of wall against the back of the tank. i think its trapping silt in the sand behind the rocks. My tank is a Red Sea Max 160. the only mobile animals in the tank are my Green Serpent star and a few hermit crabs. the rest is all coral. it consists of 1 large sarcophyton that as a few frags. one colt coral, one green kenya, one Cabbage leather, one finger leather "sinularia?" another finger leather i cant identify. a few mushrooms, Two varieties of GSP and some blue sarcothilia. and of course my colonies of Anthelia that like to grow everywhere. I also have a colony of Favia and a Montipora, I did not add these stony corals myself, at least not knowingly, they appear to have just volunteered themselves, possibly as hitchhikers as i have never knowingly purchased a monti and have not purchased or owned a favia in many years. Both have doubled in size since i discovered them about one year ago. I`m wondering if trying to change the rockwork design might overly stress out or kill some of the animals. if its too great a risk, i might avoid doing it. i`m still interested in making it look more visually interesting but really this is mostly about not being able to vacuum the sand in the back of the tank, i`m positive there is a massive build up of silt back there, which cant be good. Water parameters to follow. 1 Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Cnidarious said: Green Serpent star We had one of these at the store where I used to work....it was >12" from tip to tip. We called it The Death Star. An excellent night predator. Inverts and fish are common targets. Can you post a pic of your tank as it is? 1 Quote Link to comment
Cnidarious Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 1 hour ago, mcarroll said: We had one of these at the store where I used to work....it was >12" from tip to tip. We called it The Death Star. An excellent night predator. Inverts and fish are common targets. Can you post a pic of your tank as it is? I did a water change just recently, things are looking a little ragged for now. the sarcophyton seems pretty pleased though. The Serpent star as been in there for around 3/4 years so far. weirdly he sometimes comes out of the rocks if i spend enough time in front of the aquarium for whatever reason. i dont keep fish specifically because he is there. That tank is his kingdom. 2 Quote Link to comment
Cnidarious Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 Heres an older picture of the tank with the Starfish. 2 1 Quote Link to comment
Murphs_Reef Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Cnidarious said: Heres an older picture of the tank with the Starfish. Mine has been sumped for the time being cause he was captured trying to grab my firefish, all arched up n made a trap lol.. was ace to watch though. Managed to grab him out before any damage was done. I did have a few bits if Monti in the sump I broke off when moving the rock it was on. Had to move them back to the display cause he tried to inhale one of the frags.. just like me, will eat anything in sight 😂🤣 great little guy though 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment
Cnidarious Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 9 hours ago, Murphych said: Mine has been sumped for the time being cause he was captured trying to grab my firefish, all arched up n made a trap lol.. was ace to watch though. Managed to grab him out before any damage was done. I did have a few bits if Monti in the sump I broke off when moving the rock it was on. Had to move them back to the display cause he tried to inhale one of the frags.. just like me, will eat anything in sight 😂🤣 great little guy though if you don't feed him enough he will try to eat soft coral. I`ve witnessed him at different times, chewing on an Anthelia. 1 1 Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 11 hours ago, Murphych said: all arched up n made a trap lol.. was ace to watch though. They are bad***. 1 Quote Link to comment
Murphs_Reef Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 hour ago, mcarroll said: They are bad***. Completely. That's part of the draw of the hobby to me if I'm honest, it's hard and difficult, lots of very interesting animals. And some a little scary 👍🏼 3 Quote Link to comment
Cnidarious Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 8 hours ago, mcarroll said: They are bad***. I think the starfish is more interesting than watching vertebrates. 3 Quote Link to comment
Christopher Marks Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 I would imagine that your tank and inhabitants could endure a redo of the aquascape, you just have to be willing to go through the trouble yourself. With careful planning you would need to remove some, if not all of the rock from the tank and into buckets or Rubbermaid containers. Carefully position rocks that coral are already mounted to, and consider a plan to frag or move some if need be. You can siphon out detritus once the rocks are out, and do a water change. This procedure is often done on small pico tanks of only a few gallons, but it can be scaled up to larger tanks too. Your corals will be upset about the disruption, but they will readjust and settle back in after a few days. You must be prepared to monitor your water quality afterwards. Mature tanks may seem ‘dirty’ but after many years there is some inherent stability and balance. Avoid the temptation to ‘extreme clean’ during the changes, if you are not experiencing any water quality issues currently. 2 Quote Link to comment
Cnidarious Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Christopher Marks said: I would imagine that your tank and inhabitants could endure a redo of the aquascape, you just have to be willing to go through the trouble yourself. With careful planning you would need to remove some, if not all of the rock from the tank and into buckets or Rubbermaid containers. Carefully position rocks that coral are already mounted to, and consider a plan to frag or move some if need be. You can siphon out detritus once the rocks are out, and do a water change. This procedure is often done on small pico tanks of only a few gallons, but it can be scaled up to larger tanks too. Your corals will be upset about the disruption, but they will readjust and settle back in after a few days. You must be prepared to monitor your water quality afterwards. Mature tanks may seem ‘dirty’ but after many years there is some inherent stability and balance. Avoid the temptation to ‘extreme clean’ during the changes, if you are not experiencing any water quality issues currently. Mainly i`m just concerned about all the sand in the back of the tank where i absolutely cannot reach with a sand siphon. i can vacuum all the stuff in the front no problem, but the starfishes cave and recesses behind everything is a major concern. i bet there are is a absolutely titanic amount of silt and detritus back there. Quote Link to comment
Ratvan Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, Cnidarious said: Mainly i`m just concerned about all the sand in the back of the tank where i absolutely cannot reach with a sand siphon. i can vacuum all the stuff in the front no problem, but the starfishes cave and recesses behind everything is a major concern. i bet there are is a absolutely titanic amount of silt and detritus back there. are you able to get into the area with a pipette/turkey baster at all? Or even have a spare pump you can angle to blow all the crap out? 3 Quote Link to comment
Cnidarious Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 31 minutes ago, Ratvan said: are you able to get into the area with a pipette/turkey baster at all? Or even have a spare pump you can angle to blow all the crap out? Theres a thought. I could give that a try, i don't know if i will be able to reach back there with the turkey baster ether. Is churning up all of that Silt and detritus a good idea though? could cloud up the entire aquarium. Quote Link to comment
jservedio Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 40 minutes ago, Ratvan said: are you able to get into the area with a pipette/turkey baster at all? This is the easiest solution by far if you are happy with the way it looks. Old, mature tanks can just deal with detritus on their own as long as it very slowly accumulates and isn't building up obscenely fast. My old 20g had about a 1/2" of pure detritus sitting in the sump and was incredibly nasty looking before it was broken down, yet the corals absolutely loved it. This is what my sump looked like - so hopefully this will put your mind at ease on that front: On 3/1/2021 at 6:25 AM, Cnidarious said: I`m wondering if trying to change the rockwork design might overly stress out or kill some of the animals. if its too great a risk, i might avoid doing it. i`m still interested in making it look more visually interesting but really this is mostly about not being able to vacuum the sand in the back of the tank, i`m positive there is a massive build up of silt back there, which cant be good. The rock and your corals aren't really an issue when re-scraping (so long as the rocks aren't grown together with coral skeleton) - your sand is the biggest issue. If you do a major overhaul, remove all of your livestock and throw away your sand - treat it as a tank move. That means first siphon off as much clean water as possible (until there is an inch or two left), then remove your rock/coral into buckets with the clean water, then remove your fish and inverts, then throw away the nasty water and sand that's left behind. If you've got a ton of growth, you'll need a hammer and chisel to get your rocks apart! Your coral will make it though - this came out of my 20g and had to be hammered apart when I upgraded and is doing just fine - that's a 16x12" bucket for size reference. Make sure you've got some glue and frag plugs because you'll have a lot to sell! 1 1 Quote Link to comment
Cnidarious Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, jservedio said: This is the easiest solution by far if you are happy with the way it looks. Old, mature tanks can just deal with detritus on their own as long as it very slowly accumulates and isn't building up obscenely fast. My old 20g had about a 1/2" of pure detritus sitting in the sump and was incredibly nasty looking before it was broken down, yet the corals absolutely loved it. This is what my sump looked like - so hopefully this will put your mind at ease on that front: The rock and your corals aren't really an issue when re-scraping (so long as the rocks aren't grown together with coral skeleton) - your sand is the biggest issue. If you do a major overhaul, remove all of your livestock and throw away your sand - treat it as a tank move. That means first siphon off as much clean water as possible (until there is an inch or two left), then remove your rock/coral into buckets with the clean water, then remove your fish and inverts, then throw away the nasty water and sand that's left behind. If you've got a ton of growth, you'll need a hammer and chisel to get your rocks apart! Your coral will make it though - this came out of my 20g and had to be hammered apart when I upgraded and is doing just fine - that's a 16x12" bucket for size reference. Never heard of throwing away your sand. i had assumed simply vacuuming it sufficiently would be enough Quote Link to comment
Ratvan Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, Cnidarious said: Theres a thought. I could give that a try, i don't know if i will be able to reach back there with the turkey baster ether. Is churning up all of that Silt and detritus a good idea though? could cloud up the entire aquarium. what i used to do prior to a water change was to turn off my powerhead and remove it from the tank. I kept the return running (this was on a RSM130) and then add the powerhead back into the tank and use it to blow the "crud" out of the rockwork and from behind the rocks that i couldn't reach. Turn it off again. Let the detritus settle towards the front of the tank, siphon it out (or let the filter floss deal with it) and then set the tank back up. 1 minute ago, Cnidarious said: Never heard of throwing away your sand. i had assumed simply vacuuming it sufficiently would be enough That's only for a complete tank overhaul/transfer. Its often easier then cleaning the sandbed out completely 1 Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Sand bed quality varies widely after use....sometimes it can be VERY foul....and it does take quite a bit of effort and water to clean with any degree of completeness. Once you're going to that length, why not start fresh? Or at a least that's the usual thinking. If your sand bed still looks like new from top to bottom, there's no reason not to move it/re-use it. This just can't be general guidance because it's on the rare side for the sand bed to be in good shape for more than a year or so. 2 Quote Link to comment
jservedio Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, Cnidarious said: Never heard of throwing away your sand. i had assumed simply vacuuming it sufficiently would be enough It definitely isn't even close to enough if you have an older tank unless you meticulously clean it. If you really want 1to re-use your sand, put it in a 5g bucket, put a garden hose into the bottom of the bucket, and put it on full blast while continually stirring it for a good 10-15 minutes letting the water, fish crap, and other nastiness overflow. After it is running clean, you are good to go. That said, fresh, clean sand looks so much better - just bite the $20 bullet if you are going to be re-scaping your tank anyway. After you see what the remaining water looks like after pulling your rocks and chasing down your fish you probably won't want to re-use it. Edit: 6 minutes ago, Ratvan said: what i used to do prior to a water change was to turn off my powerhead and remove it from the tank. I kept the return running (this was on a RSM130) and then add the powerhead back into the tank and use it to blow the "crud" out of the rockwork and from behind the rocks that i couldn't reach. Turn it off again. Let the detritus settle towards the front of the tank, siphon it out (or let the filter floss deal with it) and then set the tank back up. This is awesome for maintenance if it isn't terribly disgusting, but if you've got years worth of detritus back there, you really need to be extremely careful and do this slowly as multiple steps over multiple water changes and keep some Prime on hand. If you put half a decade of detritus into the water column, it's going to be really bad. 1 Quote Link to comment
Ratvan Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, jservedio said: It definitely isn't even close to enough if you have an older tank unless you meticulously clean it. If you really want 1to re-use your sand, put it in a 5g bucket, put a garden hose into the bottom of the bucket, and put it on full blast while continually stirring it for a good 10-15 minutes letting the water, fish crap, and other nastiness overflow. After it is running clean, you are good to go. That said, fresh, clean sand looks so much better - just bite the $20 bullet if you are going to be re-scaping your tank anyway. After you see what the remaining water looks like after pulling your rocks and chasing down your fish you probably won't want to re-use it. Edit: This is awesome for maintenance if it isn't terribly disgusting, but if you've got years worth of detritus back there, you really need to be extremely careful and do this slowly as multiple steps over multiple water changes and keep some Prime on hand. If you put half a decade of detritus into the water column, it's going to be really bad. I missed the fact it was 5 years old Quote Link to comment
jservedio Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 22 minutes ago, Ratvan said: I missed the fact it was 5 years old Nah, you didn't - it didn't say how old. I was just using 5 years as an example! Quote Link to comment
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