Removed emerald crab, boom! Bryopsis?

[growsomething]

 

 

I think it's Bryopsis.  He must have kept it mowed down all this time.  Wonder if bubble algae will show up, I had that a year ago.

Probably I'll use tweezers to pull them at the base when they are exposed during water change tomorrow, then put some drops of hydrogen peopxide on them for 5 min.

Anyone think it is not Bryopsis?

[mcarroll]

2 hours ago, growsomething said:

I think it's

2 hours ago, growsomething said:

I'll use tweezers to pull them at the base

 

I think if you pull it out and don't let it take over that it won't matter too much what kind of green algae it is.  👍  

 

And I'd try to keep it that way – once it's too big for snails to eat (ie big enough to visually identify) it becomes your problem.   Peroxide is a hack so I wouldn't spend much if any energy in this direction.  I think most algae can make peroxidase and so aren't impacted by peroxide like we think they would be.  (And like experiments have shown to work.)

 

What's in your cleanup crew right now in terms of herbivores?

 

2 hours ago, growsomething said:

when they are exposed during water change tomorrow, then put some drops of hydrogen peopxide on them for 5 min.

Consider not letting your rock be exposed during water changes....not unlike in nature, this rock is going to favor algae growth if it's repeatedly exposed.  This will be especially true if you're doing other harmful things like peroxide treatments on top of that.

 

Things other than algae are going to be killed off – probably permanently.  Algae on the other hand is perfectly tuned for settling open, vacant well-lit areas like that.

 

2 hours ago, growsomething said:

Anyone think it is not Bryopsis?

I think you can't tell from a sample like that.   Grow some out in a different tank if you're curious.

 

It's distinct looking though:

From algae ID site PhycoKey:  http://cfb.unh.edu/phycokey/Choices/Chlorophyceae/siphonous_greens/Bryopsidales/BRYOPSIS/Bryopsis_key.htm

 

Note:  Click up one level to Siphonous green algae to see other likely possibilities such as Derbesia.  Click around if you don't think that's it.....PhycoKey is oriented toward photo-ID, and everything is categorized appropriately.

[growsomething]

Interesting site, didn't realise how very closely related it is to some desirable macro.

The reason for getting the emerald was to get rid of bubble algae that popped up after 3 mo in some live rock, that couldnt be accessed.  He also ate all my wanted macro, the reason for returning him after a year.  I now have a medium-sized hermit, countless cerinths, and maybe 3 turbo snails in a 10 g.  No other algae has sprung up, and the hermit has eaten some red algae the emerald ignored.  The hermit has never been able to access the upper portions of wall rock with his big shell.

[Tired]

Do emeralds eat bryopsis in the first place? I thought nothing did. 

[growsomething]

You know, I added a sponge from kp aquatics this year.  Nothing else.  It came on a slim piece of rock.

[mcarroll]

3 hours ago, Tired said:

Do emeralds eat bryopsis in the first place? I thought nothing did. 

Nothing is "known to eat it".  But Emeralds are a perfect candidate to eat it anyway.  

 

From my understanding, in the wild they are VERY non-specific about the algae they consume (as might be expected from a crab).  In the wild their predilection for algae consumption seems more anchored to defense of their hard-algae shelter (branching coralline is a favorite) from fleshy-algae intrusion rather than any specific mission related to nutrition.

 

As for the Bryopsis, I suspect it follows the same model as other algae and plants....when mature, they tend (by MANY different mechanisms) to become less and less palatable.

 

You can watch a mature stand of Derbesia (plain hair algae) get ignored with just as much vigor as a mature stand of Bryopsis gets ignored.

 

What is missing is a larger herbivore (or even part-time herbivore) that doesn't really care about the palatability issue.  In the wild it might be a Bat Fish or a Sea Turtle, often some "oceanic critter" rather than a dedicated reef critter...sometimes not even a real herbivore such as that Bat Fish.  On land, it would be a human – we tolerate all manner of anti-palatability chemicals that are unpalatable or even HIGHLY toxic to grazers in the wild.  Take Thymol from the Thyme herb.  TASTY to us at our scale.  Yum – a little spicy!   But absolutely toxic in high concentrations, as it would be for a tiny natural predator of the Thyme plant in its dry Mediterranean climate.  It would be equally toxic to us in the same relative quantity....but you'd have to eat MANY Thyme plants to get that much Thymol in nature. Not likely to happen.  A group of humans would be more likely to wipe out a patch of Thyme than to notice any effect from consuming it.  Likewise for Bat Fish or Sea Turtles and a patch of Bryopsis.

 

 

[rough eye]

4 hours ago, mcarroll said:

 Take Thymol from the Thyme herb.  TASTY to us at our scale.  Yum – a little spicy!   But absolutely toxic in high concentrations, as it would be for a tiny natural predator of the Thyme plant in its dry Mediterranean climate.  It would be equally toxic to us in the same relative quantity....but you'd have to eat MANY Thyme plants to get that much Thymol in nature. Not likely to happen.  A group of humans would be more likely to wipe out a patch of Thyme than to notice any effect from consuming it.  Likewise for Bat Fish or Sea Turtles and a patch of Bryopsis.

 

 

forgive my digression, but the reason we consume the spices we do is because they are toxic. after millennia, natural selection has bred humans that find the toxic plants we call "seasoning" appealing. these are generally plants that are toxic to other things that are harmful to us, so we use them to protect us, and at this stage, we don't even realize it. we only know they taste good.

[growsomething]

During a 2 g water change, this rock is exposed since it is 1.5" below the surface.  I popped a slightly loose lepto frag to get at the bases of the weeds (3!) Which were growing from deep in crevices.  I couldnt reach all the stems due to how thick my 12" long tweezer tips are, so I did drop 4 drops of h2o2 on the stems.  I've read others experience doing this, and the plant being quickly consumed by herbivores.  Sure enough, within the hour the hermit was munching on them, and for a long time.  I suppose the juicy nubs were easy to munch on plus new exposed territory, but others just use h2o2 without plucking, and have seen the same response.  I wonder what h2o2 might do that makes weeds more palatable. 

 

 

 

 

 

[mcarroll]

I imagine that it's similar to blanching or cooking your veggies...it probably breaks down some of the tougher exterior parts of the plant, making it easier to eat.  Some folks seem to have luck with peroxide, some don't.....usually too many other factors involved to say for sure.  Used in small spot-treatments, it's not likely to cause any big issues even if it didn't help...so it's not a bad experiment.  The question we can't answer is whether the hermit would have been there today regardless of all efforts, or if just the plucking (which also injure the plant) would have sufficed.  👍 😉  In any event it's being handled and that's good news!!

[growsomething]

 

Sigh...

[growsomething]

 

😄  I'm just pretending it's a gorg!

[growsomething]

A ittle update to this, I have 6 spots that now grow tufts of bryopsis,  all now on the bottom rock instead of the top of the back wall.  The algae up there has not come back.  Using a narrow bulb/syringe (under water, with the pump off) I put peroxide on all the tufts except one for a little controlled experiment.  Within a day they were all mowed down but the one I didn't treat.  They aren't all completely gone- some are- but all are at least 75% gone.  This is from being eaten, not from dissolving,  I believe.  Somehow bryopsis becomes palatable by treating with h2o2.

No long-term negative effects noticed.  The rfa curled away from the area I treated next to it, for the 5 min I had the pump off, has been fine for a week or 2 since.  Maybe this will work for someone else to get their cleanup crew to eat bryopsis.