Do clownfish need Flow in tank?

[Jakesaw]

Learning the basics here and have a Clown question

 

My tank 10 gallon first time beginner 

Livestock is Mai Tai clownfish & Scarlett crabb I added today.

 

Showed the LFS a short video of my tank b/c I didn't know if I should start CUC now or wait a bit longer.  When I showed the video ne noted that my fish wiggilng in the open column vs swimming ( b/c there was no water flow as my HOB filter is only current ).  Overall he's a healthy eater has active and docile times during the day, swims against filter current sometiems, other times just chills, sleeps behind HOB filter when lights go off.   HE's looking more active now because he has to be to stay put - but is this necessary.

 

The Fish store employee said my Clown needed some flow to be healthy ( I know that's true of corals ). 

Question : Do I need a circulation pump in my basic FOWLR ( for now ) tank. 

- I put a 10 yr old Koralia 1 ( new unused condition / old in mfr date ) in there and fish is swimming in current but he probably needs to build up his stamina to do that all day.  He's moved from his favorite rock to the opposite side of tank b/c of current and has to go behind filter for some rest periods.

- Is the pump overkill for just a fish or should I leave it in there as I'll be adding some coral at some point.  I've put little though to direction of flow just plunked pump where I had most space and aimed it at the rocks. 

- was advised I can put 1 inch fish per gallon in my 10 gallon so I'm a big dubious I was getting a sell job on the pump to clear inventory.  Is it actually needed for my basic eventually 2 fish FOWLR.  My understanding was - NO.

 

Any input appreciated - thanks

 

Enjoying the journey

[fenderchamp]

I don't think a clownfish needs flow to be healthy.  It needs oxygenated, ammonia free water for certain. I had a pink skunk clown in a tank with virtually no flow,  I had a tank with overflow with the water returned under an undergravel filter,  and it was fine.  I don't think flow is going to hurt a clownfish, though I bet they like to be able to get out of the current sometimes too, like they would be able to do in a reef.   

[Clown79]

Yes they do need flow. It oxygenates the water and it improves gas exchange in the tank.

 

The clown will be fine in flow, even high flow. Their natural environment is the ocean which has a ton of constant current

[Jakesaw]

30 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

It oxygenates the water and it improves gas exchange in the tank.

 

The clown will be fine in flow, even high flow. Their natural environment is the ocean which has a ton of constant current

Oxygenation - with 2 fish not sure how much that matters.  I do have the HOB filter circulating the water from the tank to surface for gas exchange - though with increased bioload I'm sure it would be more needed.

 

Flow - True, though many ( including mine ) were bred outside of the ocean - though not sure how much that matters.

[mitten_reef]

Why asked then?  If you’re just gonna ignore/rebut the first three responses (LFS+the two commenters above).  @Clown79 had been helping newbies on this forum for just as long as I’ve been on here.  If you don’t like what you read, at least check their track records. 
ocean is a big place with a lot of current, this is not a gold fish or betta you’re trying to keep. 

just saying. 

[Jakesaw]

15 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

Why asked then?  If you’re just gonna ignore/rebut the first three responses (LFS+the two commenters above).  @Clown79 had been helping newbies on this forum for just as long as I’ve been on here.  If you don’t like what you read, at least check their track records. 
ocean is a big place with a lot of current, this is not a gold fish or betta you’re trying to keep. 

just saying.

 

With Respect -

 

The LFS is in business to sell their inventory.  The same guy also told me I could put 10 fish in my 10 gallon aquarium.  The owner ( specialty reef store ) told me when I started that my HOB filter would be fine.  Later an employee said I needed flow. 

 

Re: the 2 comments above ( and I gather info from outside this site too ) they were opposite responses.  

 

So your characterization of my response was a bit off.  I asked about flow for the fish swimming - but I'm open to learning always.  In the end, it's my tank I will take collective information I gather and make the best decision at the time and learn from it. 

 

My LFS also wanted me to start with a larger tank.  It made sense logically for most, but for me - today - the 10 gallon was the best decision to get me started quickly.  Even though it will be upgraded pretty early on in it's life. 

 

 

[mitten_reef]

2 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

With Respect -

 

The LFS is in business to sell their inventory.  The same guy also told me I could put 10 fish in my 10 gallon aquarium.  The owner ( specialty reef store ) told me when I started that my HOB filter would be fine.  Later an employee said I needed flow. 

 

Re: the 2 comments above ( and I gather info from outside this site too ) they were opposite responses.  

 

So your characterization of my response was a bit off.  I asked about flow for the fish swimming - but I'm open to learning always.  In the end, it's my tank I will take collective information I gather and make the best decision at the time and learn from it. 

 

My LFS also wanted me to start with a larger tank.  It made sense logically for most, but for me - today - the 10 gallon was the best decision to get me started quickly.  Even though it will be upgraded pretty early on in it's life. 

 

 

Sure. taking in multiple sources of opinions and distill your own conclusion is the best way in this hobby, not arguing from me there. I’d encourage any new reefers to not follow one source of info. 

if you did some background research on flow in a reef tank (and let’s be honest here, you’re here to have a reef tank and not a perpetual fowlr), then you’d have seen some reference to 10x to 50x being recommended minimum recommended turnover rate, this includes all flow around your entire tank. I’d have expected you to provide the flow rate of your HOB to justify your “observation”.  
 

you’re on N-R, most ppl here have tanks in the 10-20 gallons once in their tank keeping history.  So trying to say everyone (including others on here) is overselling you stuff because your 10G tank is also inaccurate.  Some fundamentals don’t change, flow rates have some minimum, to keep everything healthy, your fish, your sandbed, your corals. Even if it wasn’t for your fish, a small power head in the system helps keep food particle suspended for longer feeding and waste suspended to be picked up by your filter. Without good flow, the food settles to the bottom quickly and waste build up in your sandbed, and you’ll be back here asking why your nutrients are thru the roof in a few months. There are more  benefits to a $20-30 power head than the downside, IMO. 
 

Just to add on to the flow, there isn’t any real maximum - as much as your livestock and corals can handle, I was talking online to a guy who has two MP10s on at 100% (on pulse, but that’s still about 3000gph total) plus a 600 gph return pump in a 25G acropora dominated cube just last night. So yeah flow is pretty crucial to lives inside a reef tank. 
 

 

[DISQUALIFIED-QQ]

Let's put it this way. My tank has about well over 1000 gph moving all at once. This is a 20 long. I guess max flow is at the point where you're stirring up particulates that visual clarity is impeded and literally the fish get blown around like cows in a tornado...but you'd run out of outlets and real estate in your tank to have that much hardware running.

 

This might be a tangent but this article is a nice read https://reefs.com/magazine/advanced-beginnings-the-basics-of-water-movement-in-the-reef-aquarium/

[Jakesaw]

4 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

Even if it wasn’t for your fish, a small power head in the system helps keep food particle suspended for longer feeding and waste suspended to be picked up by your filter. Without good flow, the food settles to the bottom quickly and waste build up in your sandbed, and you’ll be back here asking why your nutrients are thru the roof in a few months. There are more  benefits to a $20-30 power head than the downside, IMO. 

 

I did notice when I put my salt-Mixing powerhead into tank that lots of food was blowing around after feeding and I turned pump on.  I felt kindof bad for the new Scarlett crab as it could have been his snack later.  He came home today and was denied dinner by the FLOW.

[mitten_reef]

Just now, Jakesaw said:

I did notice when I put my salt-Mixing powerhead into tank that lots of food was blowing around after feeding and I turned pump on.  I felt kindof bad for the new Scarlett crab as it could have been his snack later.  He came home today and was denied dinner by the FLOW.

Food is for fish, leftover and fish poop is for crabs.  Makes you really have a second thoughts on all the crab legs you wanna eat, knowing what the crab’s roles are in nature. 

[Broseff]

I think it depends on your HOB and how the tank is scaped. Filters can provide decent flow depending their size and whether or not there's anything impeding their flow. 

[mcarroll]

On 2/26/2021 at 6:29 PM, Jakesaw said:

Learning the basics here

I still suggest a book (or 2 or 3) as the best way to learn the basics.  

 

Moe's "Marine Aquarium Handbook: Beginner to Breeder" is as great a book to start with as any – it's probably started off more saltwater hobbyists than any other book.  Most of your questions in this thread are addressed in Chapter 1.  👍

 

On 2/26/2021 at 6:29 PM, Jakesaw said:

b/c there was no water flow as my HOB filter is only current

What HOB do you have and where is it installed?  

 

Having an HOB isn't "no water flow" where fish are concerned.

 

(Can you post a pic?)

 

On 2/26/2021 at 6:29 PM, Jakesaw said:

The Fish store employee said my Clown needed some flow to be healthy ( I know that's true of corals ). 

Your tank had flow, and probably good oxygenation from the HOB....but possibly not "enough" flow.  

 

But I'm not sure their concern was (or needed to be) directly for the fish or if maybe it was for the tank.

 

Even if the fish doesn't need the flow per se the tank might still might need more flow to keep the tank cleaner....so that in the long run it's a nicer tank.

 

On 2/26/2021 at 6:29 PM, Jakesaw said:

He's moved from his favorite rock to the opposite side of tank b/c of current and has to go behind filter for some rest periods.

That's how they adapt to flow in the wild....they find refuge behind something solid.

 

It's possible to over-do flow for fish and stress them out if they can't find a place to get out of it.  Unlikely that's your case now, but something to be aware of.

 

On 2/26/2021 at 6:29 PM, Jakesaw said:

was advised I can put 1 inch fish per gallon in my 10 gallon

That is an oft-cited freshwater rule of thumb.....but it applies to tiny little fish that only grow up to 1" big as adults.  Like ten Neon Tetras.

 

There are virtually no such fish in salt.  A few tiny gobies and bennies, but I don't think you'd want ten of either of those.

 

(Nobody was recommending a 10" Oscar or 10" Grouper for your 10 Gallon tank, in case that's what you thought the 10" meant. 😁)

 

On 2/26/2021 at 8:42 PM, Jakesaw said:

Oxygenation - with 2 fish not sure how much that matters.

You can shut off your pumps and HOB and find out if you want to experiment with the limits for some reason.  Fish need air though.  (Exceptions exist.  But they are exceptions.) 

 

That's a basic they even covered in the Marine Aquarium Handbook from the 1850's I have posted in this Aquarium History article.  Check out how they did aeration back then.  (And everything else!). Definitely another book you should add to your list of learning, IMO.  

 

Many, many newbs these days still struggle to be as successful as they were in the 1850's....160 years ago!

 

On 2/26/2021 at 9:30 PM, Jakesaw said:

The LFS is in business to sell their inventory.

Hopefully not a surprise.  Same biz model the online folks use of course.  😉

 

It's true that nobody is there (in either place) to educate you.  But not out of spite or conspiracy but because educating someone about reefs there on the spot would be a silly undertaking.  There's way too much to tell to someone in that position.  (Really that's what books are for.)  👍

 

Arm yourself with more knowledge from books and you'll be at MUCH less of a disadvantage when you're talking to the store folks or watching videos online, etc.

 

If you look through my threads (not very many) there's one about reading suggestions that has lots more book titles if you want more options.....check it out.  

 

On 2/26/2021 at 10:09 PM, Jakesaw said:

I did notice when I put my salt-Mixing powerhead into tank that lots of food was blowing around after feeding and I turned pump on.

This is your main sign that you could use more flow – food settling and rotting will become a problem sooner or later.

 

Also, you only want to feed the amount that your fish can consume during the feeding time.  If food is reaching the floor of the tank, you should feed less at a time and maybe more frequently instead.  👍

 

 

[mcarroll]

Here's a quote of interest in hopes you'll read the rest of the Gosse "Marine Aquarium Handbook..." I mentioned that's from the 1850's.  

 

He's talking about artificial aeration and water movement…cap's and emphasis are as they are in the original.  

Quote

In a well-regulated Tank, however, none of these modes are necessary. My oldest reservoir, which has been in constant occupation for nineteen months, never has any artificial aeration, except an occasional syringing, and that is often intermitted for months together. The surface is now and then agitated with a stick, and broken by the addition of fresh water to supply the loss by evaporation, and this is all the external aid it receives. Yet the water always maintains the most crystalline transfparency and purity.

If you look earlier in the book, he might list what he's keeping in that Tank.

[Andy7]

Personally I think every tank needs a fair amount of flow for overall health of the tank and I think mimicking the critters natural environment as much as possible is an important aspect of the hobby. I keep about 1000GPH of vaired flow going through my 25 Lagoon and my clowns seem to love swimming through the flow patterns. Just my thoughts.