Nitrivying bacteria in HOP sponge media vs Rock / Sand

[Jakesaw]

I'm running my new tank and populating good bacteria on the sand / rock.  Using HOB filter to grab excess floaties food, etc.  I swapped out filter pad and on recommendation of another hobbiest, I grabbed some Green foam pad  media to replace the floss pad ( savings on whisper filter replacements ).  It's been running about a week now.  Foam was thicker than I had expected ( 2" ) but it fit when cut to size

 

To clean it, periodically I'll change tank water and squeeze out sponge in old water then replace sponge back into HOB filter.

 

Will this sponge populate with alot of good bacteria for my tank and make my rock / sand less live per se?  Possibly causing problems down the road of a new cycle if I decide to ditch the HOB filter and go another direction.

 

Still a greenhorn on Saltwater, absorbing all I can, but the though crossed my mind tonight as something I would like to better understand for future decision making.

 

Thanks

[JohnTheReefer]

 

1 hour ago, Jakesaw said:

Will this sponge populate with alot of good bacteria

When using just foam in a HOB filter the amount of beneficial bacteria will be less likely to colonize in significant numbers due to the amount of waste the sponge accumulates.  

 

1 hour ago, Jakesaw said:

and make my rock / sand less live per se? 

Not at all.

 

 

A few questions: 

 

How big is the HOB filter?

What is the size of your tank?

What are you using for flow?

How many pounds of rock and sand do you have in the tank?

Have you used an bacterial additives to help start the cycle?

What are your goals for the tank? ...Reef? Fish only?

Do you have a protein skimmer running?

 

[Jakesaw]

3 minutes ago, JohnTheReefer said:

 

When using just foam in a HOB filter the amount of beneficial bacteria will be less likely to colonize in significant numbers due to the amount of waste the sponge accumulates.  

 

Not at all.

 

 

A few questions: 

 

How big is the HOB filter?

What is the size of your tank?

What are you using for flow?

How many pounds of rock and sand do you have in the tank?

Have you used an bacterial additives to help start the cycle?

What are your goals for the tank? ...Reef? Fish only?

Do you have a protein skimmer running?

 

How big HOB filter ( Whisper 20 )

How Big is tank - 10 Gallon

What using for flow ( it's only one clown and rock so on advice of LFS - fitler is my only flow right now.  Plan was to re-assess when I move from FOWLR to reef

How  many pounds Rock / sand - 3.5 lb Painted live rock / 7 lb Dry Marco Rock - Sand just enough to cover bottom 1/2 inch or less to keep detrius issues minimal.

Any Bacterial additives to start cycle - yes IO Biospira

Goals for tank (  Basically LEARN - dip toe in water to assess my further interest in the salt side of hobby.  I'm enjoying it so far, a bit more tedious than I'm used to with FW.- Starting with Fish / Rock -wait a few months to stabilize / add a shrimp / beginner corals / mid inexpensive light, etc.   Basically learn what I'm biting off in the hobby and grow my knowledge base.  I'm already planning a few different future tanks / species in my head for experimentation ( i.e. 5.5 shrimp species tank / 20 or 29 gallon I have unused / 40 gallon I'd have to find a place for but taking it slow with 10 gallon to learn first and foremost. )

Protein skimmer running - not at the moment.  I'm a value oriented hobbiest, so most of what I'm using is cleaned and repurposed.  FIlter is probaly 20+ years old used for FW tanks on and off / tank was cleaned and Tetras fish rehoused.  I have an AC70 intended for refugium, but it's a future endeavor as I expand my knowledge / experience.  )

 

Thanks

 

[JohnTheReefer]

38 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

it's only one clown and rock

Does that mean there is already a clown fish in the tank?

 

38 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

I have an AC70 intended for refugium

I highly recommend putting the AC70 on the 10 gallon, as is, if you can. Keep the Whisper 20 on there as well. The extra filtration and flow from the AC70 will help a lot. Water flow in saltwater is a different ballgame vs freshwater. 

 

38 minutes ago, Jakesaw said:

Protein skimmer running - not at the moment

I also recommend running a skimmer in the very near future. It is a big help with nutrient export and gas exchange. Something small like the Tunze Comline DOC 9001 is sufficient for a 10 gallon and can even be used for the 20 or 29 gallon depending on how it is stocked. Some folks may debate the need for a skimmer on a 10 gallon if water changes are done regularly and the tank is lightly stocked, but another big reason to have a skimmer is to practice using one so there is less of a learning curve when graduating to larger setups. 

[Murphs_Reef]

I would take everything out the hob. And replace with filter floss. Some of the post was a bit TLDR but from.what it looks like you ditched the floss for a sponge... That's a mistake in my view. Live rock in the display is all you need.

 

Flow needs to increase as John says above. 

Skimming? Depends on your husbandry I'd your on the ball then you will be fine .. get lazy you know about it.

 

 

[Clown79]

I take the sponge/foam out. Its beneficial for freshwater tanks but not for sw. Its a nutrient trap.

 

Use filter floss and change out 2 times a week.

 

You don't need a skimmer.  Not really recommended on such small tanks and not everyone struggles with high nutrients. Many of us have had the opposite.

 

Some hobbyists use no filtration as your biological filter is in the rocks.

 

I liked using an hob just for floss to collect particles and a small amount of carbon.

 

You should rely on powerheads for flow. Filters can add flow but its not the same as a powerhead. 

[Jakesaw]

Filter floss was my first inclination from reading various forums, but wasn't sure how exactly to use it to grab the particlar matter with my Whisper 20 filter.  IT's got a  rectangular frame and floss bag that you buy from Whisper brand.  Frequent swap outs would add up over time.  Working on low budget maint setup.

 

Re: generic filter floss Would I have to stretch the over the entire plastic frame so that all water passes through it or just a ball behind the plastic frame to catch some debris but not all.  What am I missing here. 

 

Re: skimmer, I'm passing "for now" with weekly water changes.  It's a bedroom tank now and I don't want the noise.   I'm also keeping the load low with probably 2 small fish for the tank intended.

 

re: powerhead for flow - I'm using a small korlia for mixing water - and I've had maxijets in the past.  What are we talking about for small tank.  I'm open to tinkering on this topic in the tank but don't want to take up too much open swim room in the water column.  If HOB will work on it's own I'd prefer to stay with that.

[debbeach13]

I use pillow stuffing for my floss. You can get a bag of it cheap at Walmart and put it in a media bag. Water pump selection for small tanks has grown over the past few years and you can find several options now even on Amazon. Just get some thing that turns over the water volume 10X an hour, so 100 GPH or a bit more. The skimmer debate goes on all the time. Many successful tanks do not have one but you will have to be diligent with water changes.

[Clown79]

6 hours ago, Jakesaw said:

Filter floss was my first inclination from reading various forums, but wasn't sure how exactly to use it to grab the particlar matter with my Whisper 20 filter.  IT's got a  rectangular frame and floss bag that you buy from Whisper brand.  Frequent swap outs would add up over time.  Working on low budget maint setup.

 

Re: generic filter floss Would I have to stretch the over the entire plastic frame so that all water passes through it or just a ball behind the plastic frame to catch some debris but not all.  What am I missing here. 

 

Re: skimmer, I'm passing "for now" with weekly water changes.  It's a bedroom tank now and I don't want the noise.   I'm also keeping the load low with probably 2 small fish for the tank intended.

 

re: powerhead for flow - I'm using a small korlia for mixing water - and I've had maxijets in the past.  What are we talking about for small tank.  I'm open to tinkering on this topic in the tank but don't want to take up too much open swim room in the water column.  If HOB will work on it's own I'd prefer to stay with that.

The whisper filter is pretty minimal for flow. 100gph in a 10g isn't much.

 

Buy floss in bulk. I paid $13 cdn for a large roll and cut it to size. With 4 tanks, it lasted 5-6 mnths and thats changing floss 2-3 times a week.

 

A container of matrix carbon costs $18, media bag $2.99. Add 1 tbsp to the bag and change out every 2 weeks.

 

Once the media of carbon is rinsed thoroughly, toss it in the whisper and put floss om top.

 

You can remove the cartridges

[JohnTheReefer]

8 hours ago, Jakesaw said:

Frequent swap outs would add up over time.  Working on low budget maint setup.

IME I have always preferred sponges over floss. I have never seen a difference if you simply clean the sponge regularly and save money by not having to replace the media entirely. All mechanical filtration (sponge, floss, etc) is a nutrient trap which is it's purpose and why it needs to be cleaned often. Also, from an environmental perspective sponges are more eco-friendly while floss adds to the micro plastics in landfills. 

[Jakesaw]

39 minutes ago, JohnTheReefer said:

IME I have always preferred sponges over floss. 

I've used both in FW.  Mostly HOB filter cartridge in fish only, but with planted Shrimp tanks sponge filter / air pump worked really well  My weekly cleanings, Sponges were quite full of waste.  Cheap and easy was my experience with em and lasted long time w/o replacing.  

 

I just wanted to make sure my external filter media choice wasn't working against LR / Live Sand I was working to colonize with healthy bacteria.  

 

Thx

[rough eye]

hate to be the one to point this out but the painted rock is not live rock. with no live rock it will take longer for a biological filter to fully establish.

[Jakesaw]

47 minutes ago, rough eye said:

hate to be the one to point this out but the painted rock is not live rock. with no live rock it will take longer for a biological filter to fully establish.

It's live, just not as biologically active as from the ocean live, .but Painted Live Rock is a kind of " LIVE ROCK ".  It's man made and aquacultured..  I picked it out of the Live Rock culture at my LFS circulating with Reef light and flowing saltwater. 

[mcarroll]

On 2/17/2021 at 11:12 PM, Jakesaw said:

What using for flow ( it's only one clown and rock so on advice of LFS - fitler is my only flow right now.  Plan was to re-assess when I move from FOWLR to reef

Don't think you'll need more than what you have if it's just the clown and nothing else.  The rock should be a fine bio-filter, so roll back any "extras".  FWIW, if you've kept a freshwater fish tank I don't think you'll find this too different.

 

If you take things in a more reefy direction, then I'd recommend changing things up.

 

I'd use the time in between now and then to read every book you can on reefing – I'm sure your plans will change!  👍