murphs_reef 92G - retired, thanks guys

[Murphs_Reef]

3 hours ago, Pjanssen said:

Oh no! Can you treat the tank? I've never had to deal with Ich so I really know nothing about it except that it's bad.

I don't know. I haven't had to deal with it either 😭 gutted I didn't Qt the goby!

[seabass]

There are some remedies (which IMO, take advantage of the desperate) that are sold; however, there really isn't an effective, reef-safe way to treat the tank.  The best option is to save the fish that you can, treat them in a hospital tank, then leave the tank fallow for a couple of months.

 

And there are those that claim that healthy fish can battle it.  I listened to such posts once before, and I lost every single fish in my nano tank (it was heartbreaking).  I'm not saying that it isn't possible, as some fish can develop an immunity against the parasite and live along side of it, provided there are no future stress events to cause another outbreak.  I'm just saying that Ich can just as easily wipe out your entire fish population.

 

A few years ago, I wrote the following article:

 

[Murphs_Reef]

3 hours ago, seabass said:

There are some remedies (which IMO, take advantage of the desperate) that are sold; however, there really isn't an effective, reef-safe way to treat the tank.  The best option is to save the fish that you can, treat them in a hospital tank, then leave the tank fallow for a couple of months.

 

And there are those that claim that healthy fish can battle it.  I listened to such posts once before, and I lost every single fish in my nano tank (it was heartbreaking).  I'm not saying that it isn't possible, as some fish can develop an immunity against the parasite and live along side of it, provided there are no future stress events to cause another outbreak.  I'm just saying that Ich can just as easily wipe out your entire fish population.

 

A few years ago, I wrote the following article:

 

Yeah there is no way I will get the fish out without breaking the tank down which I just can't bring myself to do. The time effort and expenses in that scape is massive, not to mention very heavy work in the 2 foot deep tank, which my back just wouldn't thank me for! 

 

It's an expensive lesson in QTing fish... And even worse I have a QT as well! 

 

I think your right. I've never had ich in a marine tank but in my freshwater, if a fish gets it and is untreated, it's just a waiting game until it is overcome and dies. 

 

 

[A.m.P]

Make a fish trap, or shock them at night with bright lights and catch them while they're stunned, or bait them to the top of the water with food and bring a clear plastic or glass container from below, or use a black net from below while feeding.
You can also move your rock work a bit and split the tank in half using egg-crate with some netting banded to it, could even make a large corner-net of egg crate and try to herd them into a mostly empty-corner.
You have more options than you think and cornering or catching fish largely just requires time and patience, they're very smart but we simply have more control over the environment and more tools at our disposal. 

If you're persistent, you will catch them sooner or later.

[Murphs_Reef]

15 hours ago, A.m.P said:

Make a fish trap, or shock them at night with bright lights and catch them while they're stunned, or bait them to the top of the water with food and bring a clear plastic or glass container from below, or use a black net from below while feeding.
You can also move your rock work a bit and split the tank in half using egg-crate with some netting banded to it, could even make a large corner-net of egg crate and try to herd them into a mostly empty-corner.
You have more options than you think and cornering or catching fish largely just requires time and patience, they're very smart but we simply have more control over the environment and more tools at our disposal. 

If you're persistent, you will catch them sooner or later.

Cheers I've been at it for 3 hrs with a black net and a clear plastic screen to fence them in. The wrasse's are now under the sand bed, tang has managed to slip the net and is behind the rock.. I managed to get 1 of 5 chromis.

 

It looks like all the cyst's have fallen off most of the fish, the tang is worse affected. Non of the fish are flashing anymore so hopefully that buys me a bit of time before round 2??

 

Assume that the Gramma and cleaner wrasse that never had any symptoms this time will be in the firing line on the next round! 

 

Need to stop now as my back is burning... I'll have to try again in a few days. 😔

[Tamberav]

This is experimental but was used for a velvet breakout successfully in a tank. You will need a large expensive UV likely to make the peroxide more effective and a doser.

 

It is worth mentioning if you can never catch the fish. I can’t promise miracles though.

 

https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/peroxide-h2o2-dosing-for-parasites-in-reef-tank.725/

[Murphs_Reef]

Every time I go near the tank now most of the fish disappear behind rock and into sand.. the tang was swimming between my fingers for food just a couple days back. I must have put them on edge this morning with the net.. 

 

What an absolute pain in the arse! 

 

I'm close to (but not there yet) breaking the reef down to get the fish out. I'll need to let my back rest though, sciatica is killing me!

[Xj reefing]

Hope fully you manage to get the tang out when your back gets better. It would be such a pain to rip down all your rocks.

[Pjanssen]

can you take your rock work out in large pieces and try to keep them as close to the current shape as possible, then just transfer back in?

[Murphs_Reef]

2 hours ago, Pjanssen said:

can you take your rock work out in large pieces and try to keep them as close to the current shape as possible, then just transfer back in?

Yeah I think I'm going to try that Penny. I have a lot if smaller pieces on the top which are well fixed together. But the base is 3 large rocks. The only real issue is the zoa colony's "glue" them together.. it's a shame to have to cut them but I really don't think I'll get some of the faster fish out without removing the rocks.

[InAtTheDeepEnd]

can you try and use two nets instead of one? Really feel for you, my lesson in 'always quarantine' was ich as well tho in my freshwater fish room, it's such a bastard disease

[Murphs_Reef]

10 minutes ago, InAtTheDeepEnd said:

can you try and use two nets instead of one? Really feel for you, my lesson in 'always quarantine' was ich as well tho in my freshwater fish room, it's such a bastard disease

You should see how fast the wrasses and tang are, they can do a lap of the tank in less than a second. As soon as the net hit the water they are gone. I can pick the chromis out by hand when I put the food tablets on the glass, I've got 4 out today that way, but as soon as the net goes to water... Every fish hides.

[A.m.P]

22 minutes ago, Murphych said:

You should see how fast the wrasses and tang are, they can do a lap of the tank in less than a second. As soon as the net hit the water they are gone. I can pick the chromis out by hand when I put the food tablets on the glass, I've got 4 out today that way, but as soon as the net goes to water... Every fish hides.

Don't take it out. Make a big net out of egg crate for the tang and leave it in the tank so they get used to it, could do the same with a clear plastic container.

[seabass]

38 minutes ago, Murphych said:

as soon as the net goes to water... Every fish hides

Sounds about right.

 

15 minutes ago, A.m.P said:

leave it in the tank so they get used to it

Yep, that's what I do too.

 

52 minutes ago, InAtTheDeepEnd said:

try and use two nets instead of one

That's another good technique.  One directs the fish to where the other can net it.

 

 

I don't have any large fish, but I always catch fish with a container (as I worry about netting them).

I'll use a net to direct the fish into a corner where the container is waiting.  Once the fish is trapped by the glass and container, you just have to slowly slide the container up to the top and patiently get the fish away from the glass (and go towards the bottom of the container).  It's not always easy, but it works for me.  And yeah, it only works after all of the rocks have been moved out.

 

Brute containers work decent for holding the rocks, and even holding the fish.

 

Another trick that has worked for me in the past is to put a piece of PVC pipe in the tank.  The fish will want to hide in it, and you can just pick it up by covering both ends.  I suppose that you could use one or more end caps to cover the end of the pipe.

 

I usually wear nitrile gloves so that I'm not squeamish about touching the fish or my clownfish biting me.

[seabass]

So do you have another tank or container big enough to house your fish during treatment and while your tank is fallow?  Then, what about a working biofilter?

 

 

Here is another totally different idea.   What about leaving the fish in their current tank and:

• Remove all of the corals and other inverts, so you can treat the fish with hyposalinity.
• Then keep the corals and inverts in a fish-free environment for a couple of months.

[Murphs_Reef]

2 hours ago, seabass said:

So do you have another tank or container big enough to house your fish during treatment and while your tank is fallow?  Then, what about a working biofilter?

 

 

Here is another totally different idea.   What about leaving the fish in their current tank and:

• Remove all of the corals and other inverts, so you can treat the fish with hyposalinity.
• Then keep the corals and inverts in a fish-free environment for a couple of months.

I do yeah. That's the piss take, I have a QT in the summerhouse but never used it for the chalk goby! Just plopped him in the DT with £3500 of coral and fish...

 

I'm not going to treat the fish in the DT as I have Monti and GSP covering the back wall and I don't want to scrape it off so I might have to dismantle the reef rock to get the fish out as getting a trap in there is going to be tight. 

 

In other news.. the tang has exploded

Over the last few hours! And is struggling badly.. lots of time on the sandbed sitting against the glass panting.. with the odd very aggressive sprint...

The sixline is getting blotchy but no spots as such YET

[Tamberav]

man that sucks, so sorry, Be sure to get copper to therapeutic asap

[Murphs_Reef]

1 minute ago, Tamberav said:

man that sucks, so sorry, Be sure to get copper to therapeutic asap

One less fish to worry about... Sixline has just passed in the last 10 mins... It didn't even look sick until lunch time.. 

 

Thus is the closest I've been in my 20 years + of aquarium keeping to closing down both my tanks 

[Tamberav]

hmm.. it doesn't look like velvet but the rate it is multiplying tells me it could be... 😕 

[Murphs_Reef]

29 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

hmm.. it doesn't look like velvet but the rate it is multiplying tells me it could be... 😕 

I know yeah it's horrid.. at this rate the tang will be gone in the morning.. the chromis I managed to get out the tank are all gulping at the water surface as well... Friday morning everyone was ok.. today all struggling.. and 1 fish dead..

[Murphs_Reef]

This lads been in the tank since last night.. the fish haven't come out from behind the rocks since. They aren't used more than just fingers in the tank at feeding times.. 

[debbeach13]

Right now, I am not jealous of your tank. This really is terrible. Is the QT/hospital tank all set up and ready to go? Looks like you are going to have to dismantle to least some of the scape to catch the fish.  No small task for a large tank. I use plastic cups or Tupperware containers to capture the fish after coaxing the fish up to the glass with the net. 

[Snow_Phoenix]

I'm skimming through your thread very quickly - I went through the same thing with my 60G. But mine was a velvet + ich + black ich + flukes quad-combo which took out the whole tank except for the foxface. It was hell getting everyone out, and yet to lose most of them. 😞

 

My suggestion is you don't delay - I know there are many corals in there, but if you want to save any of the fish, you'll have to take some/all the rocks out, temporarily store them in a bin, net out *all of the fish and quickly transfer them into a QT (not necessarily a tank, even a large plastic bin would do), then put all the rocks back into the DT and let it go fallow for 76 days (some ich strains unfortunately run longer, according to Humblefish). 

 

If it's indeed velvet, then it'll kill fast. Even with peroxide dips and quick action, you might still lose half of what you have. 😞

 

Truly sorry - I'd never wish what I went through to happen to someone else. It's painful. 

 

Take care and keep us updated. 

[Pjanssen]

Really sorry for what you are going through. This tank is so beautiful, I hope you can save it. Poor fish. 😢

[Murphs_Reef]

Cheers @Pjanssen it's a right nightmare. 

the dusky Wrasse has got really frustrated and is going for all the other fish, and shocking as it was to see, took a chunk out of the Duncan coral.. so if he keeps this up his primary concern won't be the ich!