Macroalgae Ecosystem?

[Broseff]

11 minutes ago, king aiptasia said:

where do ya live?

 

be careful transplanting valonia, the popped bubbles usually can't regenerate if put in a new environment, keep them intact and let it spread naturally for the first couple months otherwise it just doesn't grow

I live in California. Some stores/employees will sell/give away anything in a tank. Mostly depends on supply and who's working. Can't get any Caulerpa from employees that know/care about state regulations. 

 

I will keep that in mind, thanks. The Valonia I got grow on themselves and not attached to any rock, I'm hoping a no flow tank will keep them growing like this. 

[Subsea]

8 hours ago, Broseff said:

 Really? I have a single asterina right now and it spends a lot of time on the glass. 

 

Are there any inhabitants that you recommend that would eat nuissance algae (specifically anything that grows ont he glass) but would leave the macros alone?

In my 120G tank. I have hundreds of asterina starfish.  Yes, they eat biofilms wherever they can find it: on the glass, rock or macro.  When they eat biofilm on macro surface, macro flesh is exposed and susceptible to virus attack.  Any snails should work for you in the confines of a 3G tank.

[Mr. Awesome]

9 hours ago, Subsea said:

Any snails should work for you in the confines of a 3G tank.

Except for something like a turbo or a conch that would run out of food and starve. 

[mcarroll]

Most of the plants/algae we're thinking about use fast growth and reproduction as the way to avoid succumbing to "environmental forces" like Asterina starfish.

 

If your plants (or corals) succumb to things like amphipods or asterina starfish, IMO there is a fixable reason for it, even if that reason isn't totally apparent.

[Tigahboy]

17 hours ago, growsomething said:

Fyi, walstad is no flow, no additions, and few if any water changes.  The substrate,  plants, and fauna perfectly balance

Does this count? 😅 Been running flow-less for 8 months now.

 

[growsomething]

There you go, Broseff

[Broseff]

42 minutes ago, Tigahboy said:

Does this count? 😅 Been running flow-less for 8 months now.

 

Lol, I think I commented on your post on Instagram. I think it just needs some microfauna, or like detrivores to qualify. 

 

I'm hoping it works at a larger scale.

 

What are you using for substrate in there? And whats the thing next to the Gracilaria?

[Broseff]

13 hours ago, Subsea said:

In my 120G tank. I have hundreds of asterina starfish.  Yes, they eat biofilms wherever they can find it: on the glass, rock or macro.  When they eat biofilm on macro surface, macro flesh is exposed and susceptible to virus attack.  Any snails should work for you in the confines of a 3G tank.

That's so interesting, never thought about it that way. The last reef tank I set up never had issues with Asterina, they spent most of their time going after coralline algae, which I'm purposefully excluding this time around. 

 

Would Ceriths work? I want to avoid cleaning the glass as much as possible. 

[Broseff]

16 hours ago, Mr. Awesome said:

For such a small tank, in addition to your G. Hayi, I'd say Codium (the bushy kind, not the tall-growing kind), Hypnea/Ochtodes, Botryocladia...really anything except Caulerpa and Sargassum, as they would require too much pruning. 

 

Check out https://www.live-plants.com/ and their guide: https://www.marineplantbook.com/

Just got some Codium, it can be hard to find in good quantities. Glad to know it wasn't a mistake buying it. 

[Broseff]

Any suggestions in general for algae grazers? Something other than snails if possible? Something that would help keep the glass clean?

 

I would like to make my saltwater setup uniquely different from my freshwater so I want to avoid snails and shrimp if possible. And I want to do very little maintance, I wanna really push the whole ecosystem thing and get it as close to a Walstad as possible. 

 

Also, does anyone have experience with seagrass? I heard there's a type that grows short with shallow roots. Might work?

 

Suggestions on which substrate would work? I've seen some videos on sand vs. gravel vs. no substrate. But again little to no water changes and plants might affect which is actually better. 

[king aiptasia]

14 hours ago, Broseff said:

I live in California. Some stores/employees will sell/give away anything in a tank. Mostly depends on supply and who's working. Can't get any Caulerpa from employees that know/care about state regulations. 

 

I will keep that in mind, thanks. The Valonia I got grow on themselves and not attached to any rock, I'm hoping a no flow tank will keep them growing like this. 

I guess that scraps the idea of us exchanging things found, sorry bro. I did not tell you this, but boat piers might have a few desired specimens possibly caulerpa at easy access, also other rocky coasty areas california is notorious for

[king aiptasia]

2 minutes ago, Broseff said:

Any suggestions in general for algae grazers? Something other than snails if possible? Something that would help keep the glass clean?

 

I would like to make my saltwater setup uniquely different from my freshwater so I want to avoid snails and shrimp if possible. And I want to do very little maintance, I wanna really push the whole ecosystem thing and get it as close to a Walstad as possible. 

 

Also, does anyone have experience with seagrass? I heard there's a type that grows short with shallow roots. Might work?

 

Suggestions on which substrate would work? I've seen some videos on sand vs. gravel vs. no substrate. But again little to no water changes and plants might affect which is actually better. 

any substrate can be used without flow, even silt and clay that are unusable for a normal tank

I'd still recommend rock and sands though

[Subsea]

2 hours ago, Tigahboy said:

Does this count? 😅 Been running flow-less for 8 months now.

 

Very nice.  Do you find any exudates accumulating?   Have you added any nutrients?

[Subsea]

1 hour ago, Broseff said:

Any suggestions in general for algae grazers? Something other than snails if possible? Something that would help keep the glass clean?

 

I would like to make my saltwater setup uniquely different from my freshwater so I want to avoid snails and shrimp if possible. And I want to do very little maintance, I wanna really push the whole ecosystem thing and get it as close to a Walstad as possible. 

 

Also, does anyone have experience with seagrass? I heard there's a type that grows short with shallow roots. Might work?

 

Suggestions on which substrate would work? I've seen some videos on sand vs. gravel vs. no substrate. But again little to no water changes and plants might affect which is actually better. 

As smaller crustaceans, amphipods & copepods would be a perfect herbivore/detrivore for this ecosystem.

 

In reviewing your needs for clean viewing  glass for this very small ecosystem, I suggest you are that janitor, if you don’t want to use snails.  
 

PS. Even when you have abundant snails, it does not mean glass will be cleaned well for viewing.  Cerith snails are a good herbivore.

[Broseff]

41 minutes ago, Subsea said:

As smaller crustaceans, amphipods & copepods would be a perfect herbivore/detrivore for this ecosystem.

 

In reviewing your needs for clean viewing  glass for this very small ecosystem, I suggest you are that janitor, if you don’t want to use snails.  
 

PS. Even when you have abundant snails, it does not mean glass will be cleaned well for viewing.  Cerith snails are a good herbivore.

My end goal is to do as little maintance as possible though. 

 

I have a freshwater ecosystem where I don't have to clean the glass. It's almost perfectly clean. 

 

If i need snails to do that in saltwater than so be it. But again the goal is little to no maintance. 

2 hours ago, king aiptasia said:

any substrate can be used without flow, even silt and clay that are unusable for a normal tank

I'd still recommend rock and sands though

Wouldn't silt and clay be unusable in general for saltwater?

 

Is there any benefit to something like miracle mud?

 

[king aiptasia]

1 hour ago, Broseff said:

My end goal is to do as little maintance as possible though. 

 

I have a freshwater ecosystem where I don't have to clean the glass. It's almost perfectly clean. 

 

If i need snails to do that in saltwater than so be it. But again the goal is little to no maintance. 

Wouldn't silt and clay be unusable in general for saltwater?

 

Is there any benefit to something like miracle mud?

 

not like you'd think, when the erosional forces happen they dont stop just because there was clay dumping into the sea so quite a few spots have silty clay. thats how most quicksands form so usually these aren't popular tourist destinations but there is a lot of life in these waters still. further out the particles settle in the deep sea making oozes of various compositions

[Mr. Awesome]

For seagrass, anything in the genus Halophila would work. You only need like an inch of sand, and their leaves stay short. 

[Broseff]

Anyone have opinions on using calcified macros? Specifically shaving brush algae, halimeda, mermaid's fan?

[mitten_reef]

14 minutes ago, Broseff said:

Anyone have opinions on using calcified macros?

if you have to ask....it means you haven't figured out what their requirements are to grow and/or thrive.  

 

The little-to-no maintenance idea is a pipedream in this hobby.  When the system isn't mature enough, it can't process waste - requires maintenance.  when the system is mature and thriving, then it requires many different additives to continually supplement what's consumed - also maintenance.  there's probably a very small group of livestocks you might be able to get away with for a low maintenance system, ANYTHING & EVERYTHING that has calcified body/skeleton is not in that group, imo.   For lil-to-no maintenance?  maybe you can define that, is that water change once a month, once a quarter, twice a year, what?  if your answer is 0 water change, then you're just trolling.    

 

let's see your little-to-no maintenance FW tank.  

[Broseff]

18 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

if you have to ask....it means you haven't figured out what their requirements are to grow and/or thrive.  

 

The little-to-no maintenance idea is a pipedream in this hobby.  When the system isn't mature enough, it can't process waste - requires maintenance.  when the system is mature and thriving, then it requires many different additives to continually supplement what's consumed - also maintenance.  there's probably a very small group of livestocks you might be able to get away with for a low maintenance system, ANYTHING & EVERYTHING that has calcified body/skeleton is not in that group, imo.   For lil-to-no maintenance?  maybe you can define that, is that water change once a month, once a quarter, twice a year, what?  if your answer is 0 water change, then you're just trolling.    

 

let's see your little-to-no maintenance FW tank.  

I'm asking because I've only grown Caulerpa, Gracilaria, Chaeto, and Ulva. I want opions from people who've grown those algaes.

 

It probably got lost among the comments, but the system I'm aiming for should mainly sustain macros. The only live stock should be things that survive off of film algae, nuissance algaes, or decaying matter (ie detravores). I've also mentioned that I know dosing will be necessary. 

 

Again, I want to replicate the Walstad Method. You should defenitly look it up before calling people trolls. 

 

For Reference: 

 

My FW system has 3 types of plants (worked with 2) anubias (3 of which have bloomed), susswasertang, and salvinia. There's a couple chunks of wood, lava rock, and a couple clam shells (all covered by plants now). I keep 1 nerite snail, and more than 10 cherry shrimp (they had babies, which are doing great). I've never cleaned the glass (no need to). I don't change more than 10% of the water, which I haven't done in like 2-3 months. I dose the plants when they grow in thick, and then I prune down the line. I give the shrimp some protein enriched pellets maybe 1-2 times a week to keep them from cannibalising the babies (and to keep the babies healthy). There's no filter, no pump, just a light. It's been running for over a year no problem. 

 

My goal is to find a saltwater equivalent of that. 

 

[growsomething]

I had a fw nano shrimp tank like that for 2 ys, maybe 6 ys ago.  It was perfectly balanced.

 

[growsomething]

Mermaid's fan might take the fewest minerals out of the water?  I had them before getting an emerald crab and they're very delicate looking.

[Broseff]

19 minutes ago, growsomething said:

Mermaid's fan might take the fewest minerals out of the water?  I had them before getting an emerald crab and they're very delicate looking.

Does it take the fewest minerals out because it's slower growing? 

[growsomething]

I'm just guessing it would based only on its size.

[Mr. Awesome]

Halimeda takes up calcium like corals, but water changes should provide enough calcium. If you're not doing water changes, you can add it. I'm not too familiar with the Walstad method, but does it include dosing nitrate and phosphate?