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Coral Vue Hydros

Dying BTS


Lisareefer

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Should come off if you peel it out by hand. If not, keep an eye out for when it lets go, and do a water change. 

 

The tank looks way too young for a BTA. If you want to try again, wait at least half a year. 

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He'll come back if you get your parameters & lights in check. I had one that got sucked up in a gyre twice, a hydor power head, split 4 times and made it another 2 years until they all melted away and disappeared in 2019 with my last dino outbreak.... never "nuked" my tank... 

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11 minutes ago, Tired said:

The tank looks way too young for a BTA. If you want to try again, wait at least half a year. 

I have my baby Colorado sunburst from WWC in a 2 month old LGA 4.1g pico doing fine... is there an issue with BTA's and new tanks?

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Anemones need stable water parameters, which means they need a mature tank. Tanks started with dry rock take a long time to mature. The general wisdom is not to put an anemone in a tank less than 8 months old, and some tanks may not be stable enough at 8 months. Now, a tank started with ocean rock matures much faster. 

 

If it stays mushed up like that for awhile, it's probably dying, if not dead. You would want to figure out why it's dying, if you're going to try to save it.

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17 minutes ago, Tired said:

Anemones need stable water parameters, which means they need a mature tank

Gotcha. 

 

Even with a tank that's many years old, you can run into I stability or changes that rapidly change paramaters. According to this rule of thumb, a new tank with weekly water changes would be considered stable correct?

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That nem doesn't look like it's dying just yet, I vote give it a while and see if it starts to look better. But we need to figure out the problem. When did you get it, and was it looking healthy in the store? Do you have any other corals? If so, are they healthy?

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My tank is about 5 to 6 months old. The Anemone was given to me from a local reefer friend. But again you were right it was given to me very early in the stages of my tank.    but he’s been alive all this time but he has just not thrived.    My other corals actually are not doing well. Everything isn’t really growing or thriving. I have an LED Red Sea 50 lighting system. The blues are 100% the whites are at 10%. Per my LFS.  
Alk. 8.4

Ca. 450

Nitrate was 0.   I’m feeling a little bit more the last eight days. My nitrates are now 5.0 with me testing at home. I’ll have my LFS reef store, recheck on Wednesday.

Ammonia 0

Po4. .03

Salinity 1.025

 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, I'm Batman said:

Gotcha. 

 

Even with a tank that's many years old, you can run into I stability or changes that rapidly change paramaters. According to this rule of thumb, a new tank with weekly water changes would be considered stable correct?

No, water changes don't mean stability. If anything, they can be the opposite. There's a good explanation of a stable tank here: https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/threads/anemones-why-an-established-tank.368227/

It's like how the average tank is probably not going to do very well for SPS if it's only a month or two old. It doesn't mean it can never work, just that it's best to wait. It's also a good piece of advice for people who are new to the hobby, because they need time to learn how to keep the tank stable. Someone who's been in the hobby for years might have better luck with an anemone in a new tank. 

You can look it up. Anemones should be put in mature tanks, because ones put in immature tanks tend to not do well. If the rock in a tank is white with a smattering of green over it, that's not mature rock, so that's not a mature tank. 

 

OP, the nitrate being 0 might have been part of the problem. Does the anemone always look like this now, or does it open? 

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12 hours ago, I'm Batman said:

Gotcha. 

 

Even with a tank that's many years old, you can run into I stability or changes that rapidly change paramaters. According to this rule of thumb, a new tank with weekly water changes would be considered stable correct?

Haha I like it - playing some devils advocate.  

 

I think the main reason people put a timeframe on it is due to experience.  Because you're right - if I started a new tank right now I really wouldn't have a problem maintaining water parameters (within reason of course - if I'm cycling a new tank it still takes SOME time!).  But I also have experience and know how the nitrogen cycle works, and how/when to dose, and my routines are pretty foolproof and ingrained in my head.

 

A newer hobyist will likely make mistakes like reading their salinity wrong, or dosing when they don't need to, or forgetting to plug their heater back in...  Stuff that an anemone may not tolerate particularly well.   At least that's my understanding.   I can't really think of anything different about a mature tank that would be essential to an anemone - and the things I just mentioned that are common mistake could be much more deadly anyways.

 

I would say that maybe your calcium is a bit on the high side and same with phosphate.  Since it's been a gradual decline the culprit/fix is a bit more difficult to find.  

- Describe your flow 

- Lighting seems fine but depending on the tank size 10% white seems low - if only for aesthetics lol.   

- Are you using an ATO or topping off daily?

- What size tank? 

- Could something be picking at it like a shrimp or something?

- Do you feed it?  If so what?

- How long has it been in your tank?  Sometimes they are a pain to get off so they get damaged and die. Has it ever been damaged that you know of?

- What's your water change schedule? 

- Have you gotten a validation on your salinity?  Check it with someone elses instrument.

- What's your temp at?  

- What other corals and inhabitants do you have?

 

 

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32 minutes ago, ajmckay said:

I think the main reason people put a timeframe on it is due to experience.  Because you're right - if I started a new tank right now I really wouldn't have a problem maintaining water parameters (within reason of course - if I'm cycling a new tank it still takes SOME time!).  But I also have experience and know how the nitrogen cycle works, and how/when to dose, and my routines are pretty foolproof and ingrained in my head.

 

A newer hobyist will likely make mistakes like reading their salinity wrong, or dosing when they don't need to, or forgetting to plug their heater back in...  Stuff that an anemone may not tolerate particularly well.   At least that's my understanding.   I can't really think of anything different about a mature tank that would be essential to an anemone - and the things I just mentioned that are common mistake could be much more deadly anyways.

 

13 hours ago, I'm Batman said:

According to this rule of thumb, a new tank with weekly water changes would be considered stable correct?

 

Actually, no! There is a very important reason why everyone puts a 1 year timeframe on anemones but almost nobody seems to know the reason why: Ecological Succession. During the first few years of your reef's life, algaes and all of the teeny-tiny critters in your tank are going to go through boom-bust cycles as they establish stable populations. This process never really stops in a tank, but occurs extremely rapidly in the beginning and your nutrient levels, dissolved organic levels, and populations of microfauna are going to be fluctuating wildly. Things start slowing down in the first 6-8 months, but with dry rock it's going to be hugely dependent on what you put in your tank, so a year is generally a fairly safe bet. If you start with live rock, a year is going to be a safe bet, but if you have the experience to know what you are looking for, you could drop a nem in on day one.

 

Nems just don't really tolerate those crazy swings in nutrients and organics that go along with the succession cycles. Once things slow down, RBTAs are pretty much bombproof and impossible to kill.

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3 hours ago, Tired said:

No, water changes don't mean stability. If anything, they can be the opposite. There's a good explanation of a stable tank here: https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/threads/anemones-why-an-established-tank.368227/

It's like how the average tank is probably not going to do very well for SPS if it's only a month or two old. It doesn't mean it can never work, just that it's best to wait. It's also a good piece of advice for people who are new to the hobby, because they need time to learn how to keep the tank stable. Someone who's been in the hobby for years might have better luck with an anemone in a new tank. 

You can look it up. Anemones should be put in mature tanks, because ones put in immature tanks tend to not do well. If the rock in a tank is white with a smattering of green over it, that's not mature rock, so that's not a mature tank. 

 

OP, the nitrate being 0 might have been part of the problem. Does the anemone always look like this now, or does it open? 

 Thank you for your response. I do every send 7 to 10 day water changes and I always have. I have my water checked at my local reef shop probably every two weeks. But I check it at home every week. My parameters have always been good. My salinity is always spot on

 

3 hours ago, Tired said:

No, water changes don't mean stability. If anything, they can be the opposite. There's a good explanation of a stable tank here: https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/threads/anemones-why-an-established-tank.368227/

It's like how the average tank is probably not going to do very well for SPS if it's only a month or two old. It doesn't mean it can never work, just that it's best to wait. It's also a good piece of advice for people who are new to the hobby, because they need time to learn how to keep the tank stable. Someone who's been in the hobby for years might have better luck with an anemone in a new tank. 

You can look it up. Anemones should be put in mature tanks, because ones put in immature tanks tend to not do well. If the rock in a tank is white with a smattering of green over it, that's not mature rock, so that's not a mature tank. 

 

OP, the nitrate being 0 might have been part of the problem. Does the anemone always look like this now, or does it open? 

Thank you for your response. I do every send 7 to 10 day water changes and I always have. I have my water checked at my local reef shop probably every two weeks. But I check it at home every week. My parameters have always been good. My salinity is always spot on.  I will continue my response further down with the other comments.

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You should do water changes whenever you need to lower nutrients, or replace the trace elements that your salt adds. Sounds like you might want to do them a bit less frequently, what with the low nitrate.

 

How long was your nitrate zero? Your phosphate is fine, and high phosphate doesn't directly harm aquarium life at anything like reasonable levels anyway, but phosphate or nitrate being zero will seriously harm your photosynthetic life.

 

(Oh, and you don't really need to quote every post. Quotes are good for when it's not clear who you're responding to, but if you're answering a specific point that was made recently, you generally don't need them. If you want to be a bit clearer, you can say someone's username in the post.)

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OP - I would consider taking your water to have tested at another LFS as well if you get a chance. Not because I think you or your LFS is wrong, but because sometimes if things aren't going well and nothing in particular stands out as a cause it's a good idea to go back to basics and see if there's a possibility that something in plain sight is off.  In my experience salinity, temperature, and source water TDS are some really important but easy to validate places to start.    

 

On 1/18/2021 at 11:22 AM, jservedio said:

 

 

Actually, no! There is a very important reason why everyone puts a 1 year timeframe on anemones but almost nobody seems to know the reason why: Ecological Succession. During the first few years of your reef's life, algaes and all of the teeny-tiny critters in your tank are going to go through boom-bust cycles as they establish stable populations. This process never really stops in a tank, but occurs extremely rapidly in the beginning and your nutrient levels, dissolved organic levels, and populations of microfauna are going to be fluctuating wildly. Things start slowing down in the first 6-8 months, but with dry rock it's going to be hugely dependent on what you put in your tank, so a year is generally a fairly safe bet. If you start with live rock, a year is going to be a safe bet, but if you have the experience to know what you are looking for, you could drop a nem in on day one.

 

Nems just don't really tolerate those crazy swings in nutrients and organics that go along with the succession cycles. Once things slow down, RBTAs are pretty much bombproof and impossible to kill.

Good info !  So I'm familiar with the concept, though I didn't remember what actual term was. 

 

It's funny because so many of us fight that cycle.  The most common piece of advice on reef forums is generally to go slow.  And I feel like we get sucked into regurgitating that same caution over and over.  But consider this - to achieve as much of a biological equilibrium as possible in an aquarium - is it better to take your time and slowly add rock, CUC, corals, and other livestock over time, or is it better to add everything in a short amount of time and start letting it "mature"? 

 

Every time we make a change to our tanks we upset any equilibrium that previously existed.  Now I think that the impacts of adding a coral frag - for example - are not going to be huge generally, but it's a change nonetheless.  So my view is that while you can wait a year to add an anemone, your tank may not necessarily ever be in equilibrium down to the micro level.  Aquariums are too small and we mess with them too much.  Such is the hobby though.

 

Additionally, I think that we can certainly get close enough with experience and well thought out decisions.  One thing I've noticed is that around me shops have pretty much stopped selling uncured or even cured reef rock.  Most LFS have converted to selling more dry rock but they also sell dry rock that's been cycled (not sure I can actually call it cured) - usually the stuff that's dyed purple.  So beginners are starting their tanks with cycled dry rock and shallow sand beds.  In those cases there's a lot less going on so if you get that rock you can really get going quickly as long as it was thoroughly cycled by the source.

 

So not to derail the OP's question, but while I agree that beginner hobbyists should wait a while before attempting to keep an anemone It's more because they're likely to make large mistakes or not look at the bigger picture than because their tank isn't a year old yet.  Even if OP waits another 6 months, unless he/she/they fix the way they operate the tank they will probably be in the same situation.

 

 

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11 hours ago, ajmckay said:

but consider this - to achieve as much of a biological equilibrium as possible in an aquarium - is it better to take your time and slowly add rock, CUC, corals, and other livestock over time, or is it better to add everything in a short amount of time and start letting it "mature"? 

 

Every time we make a change to our tanks we upset any equilibrium that previously existed.  Now I think that the impacts of adding a coral frag - for example - are not going to be huge generally, but it's a change nonetheless.  So my view is that while you can wait a year to add an anemone, your tank may not necessarily ever be in equilibrium down to the micro level.  Aquariums are too small and we mess with them too much.  Such is the hobby though.

I think the only correct answer to your first question is "it depends." It totally depends on the rock you start with, your ultimate goal for the tank, and what organisms you are able to bring in and when.

 

As for equilibrium, your tank will never really reach it since it's a closed system and populations are always going to be shifting and changing depending on what's going on and as coral, fish, and other "macro" life grows and spreads. However, the rate of change and the complexity of the food web in your tank shifts by orders of magnitude over the first few weeks, again over the first few months, and again after a few years. This is simply due to the fact that some stuff in our tanks can double their population in the course of a few hours and other things will take many years to double their population. You are correct that any changes we make to our system upset whatever equilibrium we have, but the more mature and stable the food web, the less of an impact it'll have and the more slowly the system will react to small inputs.

 

You are definitely right that a huge part of things for a first tank is just the process of a beginner learning to run their tank and becoming familiar with all of the biology and chemistry going on in their little box of water makes it impossible for mistakes to not be made. However, I think ecological succession and how it's dealt with plays an enormous part in whether a reefer will have early success and I would absolutely argue that keeping any livestock that is sensitive to these changes out of the tank until the process starts slowing down is pretty key. Some corals are just hardy enough or don't care all that much about the wildly fluctuating nutrient and organic levels in the first few months and I don't think RBTAs (especially babies that are extremely prone to walking or floating) really fit that bill.

 

I don't think it's all that difficult to keep an RBTA alive while your tank is rapidly changing over it's first year, but it's certainly far more difficult than just waiting a bit since you are going to be fighting against your tank to do it and your other livestock may suffer because of it.

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